HG/SS Hmm...

I was recently reviewing my Competitive team, and I realized I don't have a spinner! I reviewed the possible pokemon, and I still have a choice between three pokemon. (Hitmontop, one of my favorites, was sadly eliminated because I have Breloom) This pokemon will be replacing Clefable, as she was one of the few replaceable ones, I think.

I deem possible:
N: Adamant W/Expert Belt Ability: Battle Armor
Aqua Tail
Rapid Spin
Stealth Rock/Stone Edge
Night Slash

N:Quiet W/unknown Ability: White Smoke
Flamethrower
Rapid Spin
Stealth Rock/ Stone Edge
Attract
(this will probably end up shiny) I am only lowering speed on this one because I couldn't decide between lowering Sp. Attack and Attack, plus I didn't want to lower either Defence stat

N: Adamant W/Expert Belt Ability: Battle Armor
Aqua Tail
Rapid Spin
Stealth Rock/ Stone Edge
Iron Tail/Superpower

Please, help. I am bad with decisions.

Also! I have changed a few things since we made our decisions, so I mostly want to know if they were smart choices.

First, I changed Dragonite's Draco Meteor to Superpower, and Nidoking knows Megahorn.

Next, a large one. I kind of decided to use Hypno/ Alakazam, but couldn't decide between the two, so I went with Porygon-Z.

It will be modest, with an unkown Held Item, and the Adaptability ability.
It will know:
Conversion
Thunderbolt
Shadow Ball
Tri Attack/Signal Beam/Psychic

I can't really decide on the last move, so help there as well! Thanks to all who care to help a crazy person.

you don't need rapid spin.

that said, eliminate torkoal and armaldo off the bat, because there's no use having a spinner without reliable recovery or any defenses of note who takes 1/4 from stealth rock alone, and is still vulnerable to both of the other two hazards.

have you considered starmie, tentacruel, blastoise, cloyster, sandslash, donphan, forretress, claydol, delibird?

also, as for porygon-z: you'd be better off with nasty plot in roughly 100% of cases.

I did look at most of those other one, but not delibird... Also Foretress was a great other one, because it could also set up Spikes and Toxic Spikes while out there. Then maybe have Gyro ball for some nice, slow STAB action. I didn't look at Donphan for too long, though.

For Porygon-Z, it should have Conversion/Nasty Plot/Thunderbolt/Shadow Ball? I think that's what you're saying...

also, pretty much the only reason I'm doing this is because I don't think I really want two normal-type pokemon on my team. this being said, I am aware that Porygon-Z will be changing types a lot. I figured that a spinner would have its purposes as well, however.

Conversion is for what, exactly? Also, not having Tri-Attack on Porygon-Z is a waste of its ability.

conversion changes Porygon-Z's type so that it can use its ability for its other moves.

But it's a waste of a turn when it could've been used Nasty Plotting instead.

what if I already Nasty Plotted though? the extra STAB is nice, and his weakness(es) change, making it harder to beat.

Zackrinian said:

what if I already Nasty Plotted though? the extra STAB is nice, and his weakness(es) change, making it harder to beat.

Click to expand...

Then Nasty Plot again? And Normal-type's only weakness is Fighting so

yes, but let's say we're both down to one pokemon, and theirs is a fighting type? I use conversion, and now I'm either a ghost-type, or an electric type. Or, I could be unfortunate and get either normal or Dark, due to Nasty Plot and Conversion itself. It's still a 50/50 chance I won't be weak to them anymore, though. I feel that's worth it.

In competitive Pokémon, you're trying to avoid relying on luck as much as possible. Another Nasty Plot would power up your attacks more than the STAB bonus will. That's why Download is potentially better than Adaptability on sets without Nasty Plot. Porygon-Z can't really take much of a hit regardless of what type it is to begin with.

True but it can take more of a hit than Alakazam, which is pretty much why I chose it. (pointless sentence yay!) Download I think is only really helpful if it raises your Sp. Attack, which you can't always guarantee when sending out your Porygon-Z. I always find myself to be a little lucky, though. If I need a certain dice roll in DnD, I usually either get it, or get it epically. But, these are my opinions.

Naw, go with Adaptability and Nasty Plot/Tri Attack/Thunderbolt OR Shadow Ball OR Hyper Beam or something. Because really, Adabtability gives you a 160 (!)-powered Tri Attack which, with a Nasty Plot boost, will basically rip through anything.

And then your only problems are Ghosts, and Pokemon that resist you (Rock and Steel-types). Well, I mean, there's not much you can do against Steel Pokemon since they resist everything in Porygon-Z's moveset but electric. So how about Thunderbolt and Shadow Ball?

(Conversion is a joke. Don't waste a turn with it.)

Dark Pulse is generally a better option than Shadow Ball. It has the same coverage and power but has a chance to cause a flinch rather than a chance to lower Sp. Def. Also, nothing is immune to Dark-type. Dark Pulse TMs are much cheaper than Shadow Ball if you have HeartGold or SoulSilver, but are harder to get otherwise.

Also, I'd recommend using Timid nature for Porygon-Z. It's hard enough to sweep when there are Bullet Punch Scizors and Mach Punch Hitmontops all over the metagame, and having a rather average 90 base speed doesn't help.

whell what if I EV trained it in speed? or would that not help as much as I think it would?

you need both.

that's what I thought.

so Porygon-Z now with Timid Nature, still unknown Item, Adaptability Ability withthese moves:
Dark Pulse
Tri-Attack
Thunderbolt
Nasty Plot

what would be the base power if it used Hyper beam? O-o

Zackrinian said:

what would be the base power if it used Hyper beam? O-o

Click to expand...

300.

However, that recharge turn hurts. It leaves you completely vulnerable to set-up. Not only that, Hyper Beam spans two turns, so it technically has 150 BP (300 / 2). Tri Attack is the best choice.

yes, I knew that, but I just wanted to know the power. But really I wanted to know what it was with the Nasty Plot boost. :\

also:

N:Careful W/ item is beyond me Ability: Skill Link
Spikes
Toxic Spikes
Rapid Spin
Icicle Spear

I raise Sp. Defense so that something using Sp. Attacks doesn't walk right up and snaps its fingers to destroy him before he can do anything.

or

N:Sassy W/unknown item Ability: Sturdy
Spikes
Toxic Spikes
Rapid Spin
Gyro Ball

I'm lowering Speed for more Gyro Ball damage, and I raise Sp. Defense for the same reasons as Cloyster

Zackrinian said:

yes, I knew that, but I just wanted to know the power. But really I wanted to know what it was with the Nasty Plot boost. :\

also:

N:Careful W/ item is beyond me Ability: Skill Link
Spikes
Toxic Spikes
Rapid Spin
Icicle Spear

I raise Sp. Defense so that something using Sp. Attacks doesn't walk right up and snaps its fingers to destroy him before he can do anything.

or

N:Sassy W/unknown item Ability: Sturdy
Spikes
Toxic Spikes
Rapid Spin
Gyro Ball

I'm lowering Speed for more Gyro Ball damage, and I raise Sp. Defense for the same reasons as Cloyster

Click to expand...

Hmm... Cloyster can't really take a Special hit even with the special defence boosting nature. Also, Icicle Spear probably isn't a good idea - even with Skill Link it only reaches 50 power, 75 after STAB. You'd be better off with Ice Shard for priority, Avalanche for power or just using Ice Beam as it's so much more powerful. Rock Blast is good if you want the multi-hit thing.

If you want my opinion on which pokemon to pick, you'd be a lot better off going with Forretress. It has better stat distribution and type which really makes it so much easier to use. However, Cloyster is certainly a lot more unexpected and has its uses (Ice is a much more useful offensive type than Steel, even though Mence is banned). It depends on the rest of your team. If you have a massive weakness to Fire-type attacks, obviously don't use Forretress.