Euthanasia

I suppose you know the drill? :3

i think that yes it is okay, but i admittedly have not done much research about it. let's see what unfolds.

I think it's fine.. After all, if there is no more point for the patient to live, since it will only be in suffering or are a "vegetable", or if there's no more help to be given, then why make them live on and suffer?

If somebody is still capable of doing things, then I disagree with euthanasia. However, if they're just in a coma and will be for the rest of eternity then I believe they're in the right for euthanizing.

Pwnemon said:

If somebody is still capable of doing things, then I disagree with euthanasia. However, if they're just in a coma and will be for the rest of eternity then I believe they're in the right for euthanizing.

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Define 'doing things'.

If someone is in so much pain that they're bed-ridden and unable to 'do things', is it okay to euthanize them? They're going to die anyhow.

Legalised under strict conditions where I live.

I agree with the current Dutch law in its entirety and support it fully.

Making euthanasia illegal has always seemed, at least to me, incredibly fascistic.
Like, really. It's a law imposed to stop people who want to die from dying.
I mean, the freedom to live is probably our most important human right, so conversely, we have a right to die. Restricting that right is more than immoral, it's just retarded. If someone wants to die that badly, they're just going to resort to more painful, less efficient methods.

And we're not talking about 'suicidal' people. The type who have a bad day, and then 'try' to hang themselves. The type who, the next day, are telling everybody how great it is to be alive and how they almost made a terrible mistake. We're not on about those people. Euthanasia is full of beurocracy, even in places where it's legal. It's not an impulsive decision, made by someone who caught his girlfriend cheating on him, it's something that takes months of deliberation and discussion with loved ones.

In my opinion, if someone is in enough pain, physically or emotionally, that they want to die. And I don't mean 'want to die', I mean they really fucking want to die, then they should be able to. And in my opinion, if the NHS can fund liposuction for fatties and treatments for smokers, then it can definitely help the terminally ill go out with, if not dignity, then at least the knowledge that the pain will stop.

I find it completely awful when tetraplegic people want to die and quite literally can't, and are forced to live. It's something that really blows my mind. I don't see how anyone benefits from forcing someone to live, even though they desperately don't want to.
There's a really good film about euthanasia called Mar Adentro, about the true case of Ramón Sampedro, a man who fought for his right to die for 29 years before finally finding a solution. There's also the famous case of Chantal Sébire, which was just completely awful.

Euthanasia is legal where I live and I fully support it. My mother has already written her will and stated in which circumstances she would want to be euthanised, and I will do the same.

By "doing things" I mean alive and active and for whatever reason on life support for a small amount of time and without having ever really deciding to die the family tells the doctor to pull the plug.

That's as far away from euthanasia laws as you could possibly get

i believe he is criticising the hasty decisions that some family members might make at the first sign of suffering and such, without any sort of consent of the behalf of the patient.

Forgettable Graphemes said:

i believe he is criticising the hasty decisions that some family members might make at the first sign of suffering and such, without any sort of consent of the behalf of the patient.

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this is a ridiculous situation though, obviously doctors will have some idea of a patients progress. also current euthanasia laws would never allow this

here is the dutch version of euthanasia:

Termination of Life on Request and Assisted Suicide (Review Procedures) Act took effect on April 1, 2002. It legalizes euthanasia and physician assisted suicide in very specific cases, under very specific circumstances. The law was proposed by Els Borst, the D66 minister of Health. The procedures codified in the law had been a convention of the Dutch medical community for over twenty years.

The law allows medical review board to suspend prosecution of doctors who performed euthanasia when each of the following conditions is fulfilled:

* the patient's suffering is unbearable with no prospect of improvement
* the patient's request for euthanasia must be voluntary and persist over time (the request cannot be granted when under the influence of others, psychological illness or drugs)
* the patient must be fully aware of his/her condition, prospects and options
* there must be consultation with at least one other independent doctor who needs to confirm the conditions mentioned above
* the death must be carried out in a medically appropriate fashion by the doctor or patient, in which case the doctor must be present
* the patient is at least 12 years old (patients between 12 and 16 years of age require the consent of their parents)

The doctor must also report the cause of death to the municipal coroner in accordance with the relevant provisions of the Burial and Cremation Act. A regional review committee assesses whether a case of termination of life on request or assisted suicide complies with the due care criteria. Depending on its findings, the case will either be closed or, if the conditions are not met brought to the attention of the Public Prosecutor. Finally, the legislation offers an explicit recognition of the validity of a written declaration of will of the patient regarding euthanasia (a "euthanasia directive"). Such declarations can be used when a patient is in a coma or otherwise unable to state if they wish to be euthanized.

Euthanasia remains a criminal offense in cases not meeting the law's specific conditions, with the exception of several situations that are not subject to the restrictions of the law at all, because they are considered normal medical practice:

* stopping or not starting a medically useless (futile) treatment
* stopping or not starting a treatment at the patient's request
* speeding up death as a side-effect of treatment necessary for alleviating serious suffering

Euthanasia of children under the age of 12 remains technically illegal; however, Dr. Eduard Verhagen has documented several cases and, together with colleagues and prosecutors, has developed a protocol to be followed in those cases. Prosecutors will refrain from pressing charges if this Groningen Protocol is followed.

okay, so he was unaware of such legislation and so was i (though i don't have any problem with euthanasia anyway). thanks for the infodump though, it's interesting.

Yeah we don't just end everybody's lives, that's ridiculous. Actually, two thirds of all euthanasia cases are refused. Doctors retain the right to refuse euthanasia (they have to refer to a doctor willing to grant the request).

I think its alright, as long as that person is able to make the decision properly or has wished so in the past (as in, they have stated in the past that they would like to be euthinised in that condition). It shouldn't be based on the decisions of others, either way.

It's illegal here, and I keep reading these upsetting stories about people having to go abroad just to die. =/ I think it should be legal, but like I have said only in cases where the person is able to decide for themselves.

I think it's alright, as long as what everyone said is followed. We're all agreeing! It's weird.

At my mom's nursing home, if she gets the consent of the patient in writing (and often the patient's immdiete family), she is legally obligated to let the patient die and fail to adminster them drugs or perform CPR. Every now or again she'll come home in a fit about it - crying hysterically and taking her antidepressents.

She still actually agrees that it's nessasary. It just makes her sad to be able to save a life and voluntarily not doing it. Sometimes I think she's a bit too suited for her job.

Inept At Normal said:

I think it's alright, as long as what everyone said is followed. We're all agreeing! It's weird.

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It's like the police brutality thread- you'd have to be insane not to.

Also, yeah, that Dutch euthanasia law is fine. I just meant that involuntary euthanasia should NEVER happen. (Save the instance of a lifetime coma.)

tell me, is suicide still a capital crime? I'm almost sure it was at some point.

I think so. I remember being told in Civics that there was a law against suicide (and running away too, for that matter).

I just think the last think you want to do is convict someone who attempted suicide.

I think there are still laws against suicide, but more so they can give treatment to someone who obviously needs it, rather than to actually imprisoning them.