• Welcome to The Cave of Dragonflies forums, where the smallest bugs live alongside the strongest dragons.

    Guests are not able to post messages or even read certain areas of the forums. Now, that's boring, don't you think? Registration, on the other hand, is simple, completely free of charge, and does not require you to give out any personal information at all. As soon as you register, you can take part in some of the happy fun things at the forums such as posting messages, voting in polls, sending private messages to people and being told that this is where we drink tea and eat cod.

    Of course I'm not forcing you to do anything if you don't want to, but seriously, what have you got to lose? Five seconds of your life?

Knowledge about the World

Drifloon Rocks

Drifloon Rocks

Honey, please don't eat the rancid dung.
The topic title seems a bit abstract, but there's a point here. Basically, can we know anything about the physical world we live in?

I'll present my point by using the example of our solar system. Hundreds of years ago, scientists and researchers were confident that the universe revolved around the Earth. They had all the proof they could imagine, the biggest proof being the obvious fact that everything else went over the sky again and again. It was proven that the universe revolved around the Earth. But they only saw things from the perspective of Earth.

Then, something happened. Someone had figured out that the Earth actually revolved around the sun and also rotated on an axis. This is why everything appeared to soar over our sky. At first, these ideas were ignored, but once we developed more advanced technology, we "discovered" that the Earth does in fact revolve around the sun, and the moon revolves around the earth. It was also "discovered" that there were other "solar systems" like our with planets orbiting stars and since the earth rotated, they seemed to pass over us.

Nowadays, it's "common knowledge" that the Earth revolves around the sun and that the Earth rotates on an axis. It's been proven using the latest technology. But it was also "proven" that the universe revolved around the Earth with was used to be the latest technology. They had "proof" then, and we have "proof" now.

So how do we know that in a few hundred years, someone will "discover" that we actually don't revolve around the sun? Is that even possible? We've proven over and over that Earth revolves around the sun. But a long time ago, people had "proven" over and over that the universe revolved around the sun. Everyone believed it. It was known. And yet, it was later "disproven" bu newer technology.

So, can we really know anything about our world? Is a quark really the smallest thing there is? Does the earth really revolve around the sun? How can we be sure that it won't later be "disproven"?

Discuss.
 
Nope. Nothing, ever, is 100% true. Heck, I doubt the big bang theory for the fact the some other theory is probably going to come in and takes it's place ten years later.

Honestly, we know nothing for sure. Let me tell you right now, I can prove that 2=1

Firstly, let's say that: x = 1

Therefore: x² = x

x² - 1 = x -1

Factorising: (x - 1)(x + 1) = x - 1

Dividing through: x + 1 = 1

Substituting: 2 = 1
Click to expand...

If that's not good enough for you, then:

a = x [true for some a's and x's]
a+a = a+x [add a to both sides]
2a = a+x [a+a = 2a]
2a-2x = a+x-2x [subtract 2x from both sides]
2(a-x) = a+x-2x [2a-2x = 2(a-x)]
2(a-x) = a-x [x-2x = -x]
2 = 1 [divide both sides by a-x]
Click to expand...

So no, nothing we think is real will ever be real. We all know 2=2, but I just proved it wrong :P
 
Dragon_night said:
Nope. Nothing, ever, is 100% true. Heck, I doubt the big bang theory for the fact the some other theory is probably going to come in and takes it's place ten years later.

Honestly, we know nothing for sure. Let me tell you right now, I can prove that 2=1

If that's not good enough for you, then:

So no, nothing we think is real will ever be real. We all know 2=2, but I just proved it wrong :P
Click to expand...
Using division by zero. It's wrong. You did not manage to prove it wrong!


We can't be sure that things aren't going to be disproven, but we can damn well try.
 
No one had proven the universe revolved around the sun thye just sort of threw it out there and it sounded good.
And yes we now have much more credible ways of finding this stuff out because we have technology.
 
We have what we call technology, but so did the people when they thought that the universe revolved around the Earth. They thought their technology was advanced, but it was nothing compared to today. So imagine the technology that we'll use to discover things in the future.
 
We can know things; however, it's not impossible they'll be disproven; merely highly unlikely. So, we take steps to ensure that as little as possible is mistaken, and admit when we DO make mistakes.
 
No matter what, there is always something beyond a being's comprehension. If everything was within human comprehension, we could prove or disprove every thing that is believed to be known or known to be believed.
 
Fact is illogical :|
We cannot know what fact is unless we know the causation / reasoning behind the universe's beginning, and even then - we can't be 100% sure that the causation / reasoning is true. Fact is just a general term for "More than likely right, but you know. Whatever, man"
 
*grabs dictionary*

Causation: The act or process of causing

Cause: Reason or motive; something that brings about a result

Causation, cause, they generally mean the same thing.
Click to expand...

I disagree.
 
Alexi said:
*grabs dictionary*

Causation: The act or process of causing

Cause: Reason or motive; something that brings about a result



I disagree.
Click to expand...

The only difference is that causation is a verb. Besides, this just shows I did use it in the correct context in the first place. Case closed, onward with the topic rather than improper dawdling on trivial subject noukthx
 
Caller said:
The only difference is that causation is a verb. Besides, this just shows I did use it in the correct context in the first place. Case closed, onward with the topic rather than improper dawdling on trivial subject noukthx
Click to expand...

uh what

causation is a noun. cause is the verb (if also a noun in different contexts).
 
Last edited:
opaltiger said:
uh what

causation is a noun. cause is the verb (and if also a noun in different contexts).
Click to expand...

Causation: The act or process of causing

Cause: Reason or motive; something that brings about a result
Click to expand...
Pretty sure it's a verb.
EDIT: Actually, double checking, it is a noun. I fail to see how, but apparently it is. Either way the point I was trying to make is causation is an action, cause is a reason.
 
Last edited:
No, no it isn't. Really, try use causation as a verb in a sentence: "It was causationed by"?

cause is a reason.
Click to expand...

Sure, as a noun it is (among other things). The verb "to cause" means "to bring about", which is similar but not the same.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom