Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, etc.

Should we teach young children that Santa Claus the Tooth Fairy, and other "mystical beings"* are real even though we know fully well that they aren't?

On one hand, the moment they realize that these logic-defying beings don't exist is a pretty big event that'll help them mature. When children work out by themselves that Santa isn't real, it'll help them realize that logic is useful and people aren't trustworthy all the time.

On the other, Santa Claus teaches children bad morals: children should only be good so they could get presents, not because being good is good. It also (unless done well) makes children distrust their parents.

Discuss.

*In quotes because Santa isn't really a mystical being.

One thing to consider is that most children don't think about "being good" at any time of the year other than Christmas. (Or at least I know I didn't!)

I don't know if Santa ever really made me distrust my parents. If anything, once I found out, I admired their skills at secrecy. As for the tooth fairy, I was told that my old teeth became the new teeth of babies, and the tooth fairy paid you for giving babies new teeth.

It's an interesting question. I know a very good parent who insisted on informing his children from the very beginning that Santa and the Tooth Fairy etc. weren't real. Said kids are growing up with no emotional scarring, or disappointment because these beings aren't real. After all, they're really only interested in the presents and money etc. that are associated with the "mystical beings", and the parents still give the kids these things, so no problem there. The dad once described it to me like this: "I want my kids to grow up being able to say that I never once lied to them. That way, when they wonder if they can trust me, I can ask 'Have I ever lied before?' and they'll know the answer is no." I think it's a good point when it comes to parents trusting their kids.

On the other hand, I, along with many other people I know were told at a young age about Santa etc, and we never experience any emotional scars either. I never developed any trust issues with my parents over such a topic, and I had to figure it out myself (it didn't take too long, even as a young kid I've been sort of skeptical). I didn't care for the same reason kids who know Santa etc. don't exist don't care. I still received the associated gifts/money, and that's all that really mattered when it came to those subjects.

I think about it this way. They're just fun little stories to give young kids reasons why they're getting gifts. In the long run, the kids don't really care that much (at least the ones I know, I can't speak for everyone); it's sort of like reading them fairy tales. They bolster the imagination, and it does't seem harmful whether you do it or not. If I had to choose, I think I lean more towards the side of letting them know it's not true. I'd still tell them the stories, but also let them know that that's all they were. That way, in the emergency of having either a super sensitive kid or a kid with trust issues, there's no chance of nervous breakdowns when they do find out.

Santa isn't real. I discovered that when I stayed up late on X-mas eve when I was five. I saw my parents set the presents up. I wasn't mad though. Like ever, I applaud their secrecy.

Tooth fairy isn't real. When I was six, I got a letter from the tooth fairy (IE, mother) that matched mother's handwriting. Not at all secretive.

None of those mythical beings exist. except for unicorns and pegasi

My parents pretended way too hard. In fact, they did it so well, I was 8 before I knew they didn't exist, but then they still tried. They did it so well, that I thought they were real again, when I was 10, until I was 12, when my youth pastor told me that no, they did not exist, and that my parents were just really good at pretending.

Once again, the assumption that everyone is Christian. These are entirely Christian myths/beliefs, after all; no one else does this stuff.

Also, consider Santa Clause = God. You're taught Santa Clause is real, you get presents if you are good and uh, bad thing (salt? I can't remember) if you are bad; in Christianity, you are sent to heaven if you are good and hell if you are bad. Both are myths; however, most children only grow up to realize one of them isn't real.

Honestly? I don't really see the harm in it - but maybe that's just because I kind of figured out that none of those things were real (perhaps from school) and was never really upset or scarred by it - I just thought it was sweet that my mum handwrote letters from santa and the tooth fairy, and that she made easter-bunny footprints from talcum powder. My sister's eight and she doesn't really believe in Santa or any of those things either, but not because my parents told her they weren't real (again, I'm pretty sure she heard from the other kids at school), and she's never been upset by it. Yesterday she was circling things she wanted for christmas in catalogues and showing them to mum. But I guess it's because my family was never super-traditional about these things? I think it's just that mum really like doing these things and it was just... nice? But my childhood's not the same as everyone's I guess.

Aethelstan said:

I think about it this way. They're just fun little stories to give young kids reasons why they're getting gifts. In the long run, the kids don't really care that much (at least the ones I know, I can't speak for everyone); it's sort of like reading them fairy tales. They bolster the imagination, and it does't seem harmful whether you do it or not. If I had to choose, I think I lean more towards the side of letting them know it's not true. I'd still tell them the stories, but also let them know that that's all they were. That way, in the emergency of having either a super sensitive kid or a kid with trust issues, there's no chance of nervous breakdowns when they do find out.

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I like this! I don't see why you couldn't treat Santa Claus etc. as fairytales and for it to be the same, really.

Crazy Linoone said:

On the other, Santa Claus teaches children bad morals: children should only be good so they could get presents, not because being good is good. It also (unless done well) makes children distrust their parents.

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Actually, I rather think that it teaches that you can be a 'bad' kid irredeemably enough to be given coal, which is pretty scary when you're a small child. I remember briefly being worried about being bad at Christmas, not because Santa wouldn't bring me anything (I mean, it was mum who asked me what I wanted for christmas, after all), but because then I'd be bad. I'd be a bad child.

Pathos said:

Once again, the assumption that everyone is Christian. These are entirely Christian myths/beliefs, after all; no one else does this stuff.

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Well, is there anything from your faith(?) that you could bring to the discussion? You're welcome to, anyway.
Also plenty of non-christians do all of these things, like plenty of non-christians celebrate Christmas.

Pathos said:

Once again, the assumption that everyone is Christian. These are entirely Christian myths/beliefs, after all; no one else does this stuff.

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I won't argue on religion in this thread, but are you implying that only Christians do the Santa thing with their kids? Cause that's definitely not true. Most of the people I was talking about in my post who told their kids Santa stories were not Christians. If I'm misunderstanding, I apologize.

What UV said.

... Why would someone who isn't Christian celebrate Christmas?? Do you mean they aren't actively Christian/go to church, or that they are actually atheists/Jews/something else and just... celebrate Christmas... because...?

There aren't really any of these mythos in Judaism. Aside from God. *shrugs*

Pathos said:

... Why would someone who isn't Christian celebrate Christmas?? Do you mean they aren't actively Christian/go to church, or that they are actually atheists/Jews/something else and just... celebrate Christmas... because...?

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Lots of atheists or non-practicing theists celebrate christmas and easter! My family (who're more or less atheists) pretty much just give each other stuff and eat lots of food and decorate the house/tree and don't go to church or do anything religiony. On easter we eat fish (because hey-why-not-might-as-well-sounds-fun-we-rarely-eat-fish-anyway) and eat chocolate eggs and rabbits and don't go to church or do anything religiony.

Christmas isn't necessarily about Christianity these days as much as it used to be, and it's also about spending time with your family and giving each other stuff because you love them. I don't know about other countries, but in Australia people will probably be surprised if you don't celebrate christmas (unless you're particularly religious of a faith that doesn't celebrate christmas). I don't know any Jews personally but I have heard some do celebrate christmas.

(also as far as I know the Tooth Fairy isn't an especially christian thing!)

ultraviolet said:

Lots of atheists or non-practicing theists celebrate christmas and easter! My family (who're more or less atheists) pretty much just give each other stuff and eat lots of food and decorate the house/tree and don't go to church or do anything religiony. On easter we eat fish (because hey-why-not-might-as-well-sounds-fun-we-rarely-eat-fish-anyway) and eat chocolate eggs and rabbits and don't go to church or do anything religiony.

Christmas isn't necessarily about Christianity these days as much as it used to be, and it's also about spending time with your family and giving each other stuff because you love them. I don't know about other countries, but in Australia people will probably be surprised if you don't celebrate christmas (unless you're particularly religious of a faith that doesn't celebrate christmas). I don't know any Jews personally but I have heard some do celebrate christmas.

(also as far as I know the Tooth Fairy isn't an especially christian thing!)

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... The non-Israel world is verrrry weird. I have never heard of a Jew that celebrates christmas, even those who are not theists. I've only ever heard/met Jews that are rather annoyed by the oversaturation of Christianity/christmas (mainly in media/tv, god we don't need a christmas episode in every tv show ever every seasons ffs only DW ever makes them interesting). Don't get me wrong, christmas is cool, but uh, so are many other things and yeah I don't need to see it all the time. :v

We did sort of have the tooth fairy in that we got money for losing teeth but there was no tooth fairy involved in it, we just. Got money for it??

I don't think either me or my sister ever properly ~believed~ in this kind of thing, it was all kind of tongue-in-cheek. But it really irritated me, and disturbs me now looking back, that spending tons of money on your kids has to be explained away with a fairy tale? I always wanted to say thank you so much to my parents' faces but they'd always say "but it's not from us!!!! :D".

Also! I think I always wanted to buy my parents gifts in return? I mean sure, they'd probably be, like, a special drawing or something since I had no money, but I figured I couldn't because Christmas presents were just ~for children~.

Also I genuinely have no idea what the Easter bunny is. Like is it an actual thing people tell each other?? Why would a rabbit leave chocolate everywhere. Maybe it was just where I grew up :V

Iiiii think it would really just be better if there were 'buying each other presents' cultural holidays, or them not exist at all. Surely learning how to give people gifts and make them happy is more important than a ~lesson in logic?

Pathos said:

... The non-Israel world is verrrry weird. I have never heard of a Jew that celebrates christmas, even those who are not theists. I've only ever heard/met Jews that are rather annoyed by the oversaturation of Christianity/christmas (mainly in media/tv, god we don't need a christmas episode in every tv show ever every seasons ffs only DW ever makes them interesting). Don't get me wrong, christmas is cool, but uh, so are many other things and yeah I don't need to see it all the time. :v

We did sort of have the tooth fairy in that we got money for losing teeth but there was no tooth fairy involved in it, we just. Got money for it??

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I've got to second UV here, Christmas is basically as much a secular holiday as a Christian one these days in most of the world. I'm a strong atheist, secularist and, to some extent, an antitheist but Christmas is still my favourite time of the year because it's the one time of year that almost my entire family comes together without some sort of argument. People are nicer around Christmas and whether that's because they think they have to be or because they want to be, I just like it when there's a couple of days when the world is a less painful place in which to live.

There's no harm in telling kids about Santa. I figured it out extremely late (at age 10 or so) when I realized that Santa had my mom's handwriting. It wasn't really that emotional for me at all, it was more "Oh, so the kids on the bus were right."

Besides, it's a fun idea. Dad still reads my siblings and me The Night Before Christmas every year, and we still get presents from Santa. Even though my siblings are in college and I'm in high school, it's just a fun tradition.

And it's very easy to make Christmas secular. With my family's traditions, all I have to do is not go to church Christmas Eve.

Abusing the fact children will believe whatever their parents tell them to lie to them about stupid things strikes me as an extremely dishonest thing to do and I'm wholly opposed to it. I'm not exactly going to cry bad parent if you do it or anything (my parents played along with the Icelandic version of Santa and it's not as if that traumatized me or anything), but... egh. They trust you.

Crazy Linoone said:

On one hand, the moment they realize that these logic-defying beings don't exist is a pretty big event that'll help them mature. When children work out by themselves that Santa isn't real, it'll help them realize that logic is useful and people aren't trustworthy all the time.

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This is the kind of argument that's only used to hamhandedly justify things that are already there for different reasons. If people didn't already go around lying to their children about Santa Claus, it would never even cross your mind that "Hey, we should start systematically lying to children about a magic guy giving them presents so that the moment they realize it's all a lie will help them mature!"

You can't teach someone that people aren't trustworthy by lying to them about something as stupid as Santa Claus. Santa Claus isn't the sort of thing people really aren't trustworthy about; it's just not analogous to the kinds of things people should really learn to be suspicious of (well, except religion I guess, but you're much better off just telling your kids straight out that it's just myth, if that's what you're concerned about, than concocting some elaborate scheme to make them realize it through Santa Claus). Logic? Kids don't normally realize Santa Claus doesn't exist through logic; they realize it because their friends tell them, and their friends tell them because their parents have never played along with it or they've given up and told them.

Kids, as a rule, don't need to genuinely believe things are real to treat them as such. Kids play pretend with fictional characters all the time. You can play Santa Claus at Christmas without telling the kids Santa Claus isn't just Daddy in a suit. They can have fun with the idea without all the lying around it. So why lie?


Also echoing the "Christmas is pretty much a secular holiday in much of the world" sentiment.

Well, actually, my parents do the gift giving for St. Nicholas instead (that's 6 december in Belgium, and the evening of the 5th for the Dutch). So we were taught Sinterklaas (but Santa Claus is just a derivation of Sinterklaas and infinitely uglier). But we don't do anything religion-y for it. My parents basically just, apart from the basic "giving gifts" and sometimes adhering to the Dutch custom of writing tongue-in-cheek poetry for St. Nick, make up the rules.

We do the same for Christmas and Easter, although my parents did hide eggs for us and tell us it was from the Easter Bunny. I found out what St. Nicholas was when my parents told me when I was (7 or 8 or so) a child.

My mother instated a rule that for Christmas, all the boys in the family must cook (which means everyone except her). We also do Christmas with the cousins and things like that, but that's not religious either. Years ago, when the LOTR movies came out, we used to go see the movies with the whole family as an XMas tradition.

Basically, Christmas is an excuse to get fat, drunk, and have fun.

Easter is an excuse for lavish breakfasts. Except if you're a Jew. Passover is fucking weird.

I basically agree with Butterfree here. I'm probably going to expand on this later, though. WATCH THIS SPACE

Pathos said:

... The non-Israel world is verrrry weird. I have never heard of a Jew that celebrates christmas, even those who are not theists. I've only ever heard/met Jews that are rather annoyed by the oversaturation of Christianity/christmas (mainly in media/tv, god we don't need a christmas episode in every tv show ever every seasons ffs only DW ever makes them interesting). Don't get me wrong, christmas is cool, but uh, so are many other things and yeah I don't need to see it all the time. :v

We did sort of have the tooth fairy in that we got money for losing teeth but there was no tooth fairy involved in it, we just. Got money for it??

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Yeah, I actually agree with you on this one. It is pretty weird, considering Christmas and all it's roots have Christian origins, yet nobody really treats it as so anymore. In many countries around the world, Christian or not Christian, it's really more of an excuse to have parties and give people presents. Same with any other Christian holiday that's celebrated by non-Christians; they do it because it comes with fun stuff, not because they actually care about where it came from or what people believe about it. To reiterate Tarvos, "Christmas is an excuse to get fat, drunk, and have fun."

Kids, as a rule, don't need to genuinely believe things are real to treat them as such. Kids play pretend with fictional characters all the time. You can play Santa Claus at Christmas without telling the kids Santa Claus isn't just Daddy in a suit. They can have fun with the idea without all the lying around it. So why lie?

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This. This is a better explained version of where I probably stand on this issue.

I suppose some might argue that it's fun for kids to be able to "believe in something", but when the thing that they believe in is as wholly ridiculous and silly as Santa, I say there's little point. So I agree with Butterfree in that it's definitely stupid. But on the other hand, I can honestly say that I've never met a kid who actually experienced any trauma from learning the Santa/Fairy/Easter Bunny stories weren't true. So while it's stupid, you probably aren't going to hell for it. But really, what's the benefit of your kids believing something that isn't true, even if it is harmless?

I'm jealous of all you people who found out that Santa, the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, etc. didn't exist. When kids told me Santa didn't exist I'd say something about having a right to my beliefs or something like that. I legitimately asked my parents for the truth once when I was 8, and was surprised when they said he didn't exist ;_;

Anyway, on the whole lying to kids thing, I've always been a bit iffy on the subject. I guess it's relatively harmless to tell a white lie like that, and how it will help a child mature. But I was pretty scarred for a while when I found out that these myths weren't real, and I really wouldn't want that to happen to my kids personally.

And on the religious aspects of it all, I think it's a choice. I'm fine with people who go to church, celebrate the holiday as Jesus' birthday, and any other religious habits. Then there's people like me and many of the rest of us who just celebrate it for the sake of getting gifts (it's supposed to be giving, I know, but I won't lie and say I like giving more than getting :/ ), singing songs that everybody knows, wearing Santa hats, decorating, eating mandarin oranges, etc. That's just as enjoyable. And people who believe in Christmas for two different reasons can get along just fine! Every other year I go over to Vancouver to celebrate with my devout Christian family, and besides struggling through Grace, I have a great time!