Vegetarianism/Veganism/etc.

I finally remade this thread.

EDIT: If you choose 'other', then please specify.

For some people:
Meat Eater =/= I eat meat and nothing else ever, by meat eater I mean omnivore.

The reason I didn't just put 'omnivore' in the poll is because then I'd have to change 'vegetarian' to 'herbivore'. Then vegan would look out of place. (If anyone knows a scientific word for vegan, I'll gladly change the poll, if it's possible)

[rant]
Originally I wasn't going to make this thread, but on another site someone posted this animated gif. It was of someone cutting a pig's head off with a chainsaw, and even after it had come off, it's body was still writhing in pain for a few seconds.*

I still feel ill now even though I saw it a couple of hours ago.

You know what everyone's response was?
"The more the painful their deaths are, the more delicious they are."
"Watching that makes me hungry."
"Torture is funny!"

Okay, I admit that they were saying those things as a joke and/or to piss off vegetarians. It worked.

I'm not one of those vegetarians who tried to 'convert' others. I don't call people 'evil' for eating meat. Yet I still get attacked for it on and off the internet. This is what got me into making this thread.
[/rant]


My opinion on it is that people should be allowed to eat whatever they want, I just disagree with the killing part. Although it is true that I wouldn't eat an animal that died of natural causes. Animals are slaughtered in numbers probably every day. I accept that
"Animals eat other animals; it's only natural."
It's just that we have a much bigger variety of food that animals, easily accessible due to shops, we (most of us, anyway) can survive without meat. Also, we have the ability to choose not to eat them. Would you rather eat something, or eat something, and an animal needlessly dies.**
I just care for all living things ***, if there's anything I can do that -may- have a slight chance to reduce the number of deaths, I'll do it.****
I can see where vegans come from as well. No milk because the cows/goats have to have a baby to produce milk. The baby is then taken away from the mother, which I'm sure could cause some distress to the mother and possibly the child. No eggs because although unfertilized, they still have the potential to be fertilized and become a chick.
Why am I not a vegan? Milk has no other purpose that I know of other to be consumed. The calves/kids are usually taken care of, it's not like they get killed. Eggs, although I sometimes think about it and find it disgusting. (it's like eating sperm) There are plenty of eggs to around, and chickens aren't exactly in danger of becoming extinct. Although I do feel sorry for them a bit, as I only ever have free range eggs.

So... What are your opinions?

* It would be appreciated if no pictures/clips of this kind were posted here. If you must, please label them appropriately.
** I accept that that animal would have died in the same way regardless of you personally buying it. It's just an example.
*** Not in a tree-hugger kind of way, mind you (not that I have anything against tree-huggers)
**** I know that personally I'm not saving any animals, but vegetarians as a collective have a better chance.

I understand your reasons and I respect them but I'm still going to eat meat. The simple reason is, I absofuckinglutely HATE cows, chickens, ducks, sheep and pigs. Honestly. Cows scare the SHIT out of me, chickens and ducks nearly put me in cardiac arrest (I have pennaphobia, the fear of flapping wings), I've had a phobia of sheep ever since a bunch broke out of a farm while I was walking home from school and ATTACKED me and I just don't feckin' like pigs. So I have no problem with them ending up on my plate (I hate them, not their meat).

I've been a vegetarian for most of my life, although tbh that was not so much because I have strong feelings about eating animals, but because I thought most meat tasted quite vile to the point where eating it made me gag. I gradually adopted some more vegetarian principles, sticking up for the animals and all that, and eventually that became the main reason for it in my mind.

This year was the first time I'd deliberately eaten meat for over a decade, not because I changed my views, but because I'd been in a pretty depressed state for a while and sort of eventually pretty much stopped caring whether or not it's ethical. And some of it tastes alright, though a lot still makes me want to throw up.

As to the ethics and stuff, now I don't have much of a problem with free range farms. Animal gets a good quality of life and then is killed before it gets old and ill and diseased and in pain, sounds quite good really. :S Don't have a problem with that, it's not perfect but it'll do. What I hate is intensive farming and all that sort of thing, battery hens and all that shit. That's fucking cruel, if you take part in that you're just a cunt tbh.

hope some of that made sense, well tired lol :)

I see the point of vegitarianism, and if A. I wasn't hooked or B. There was a good substitute, I would stop eating meat. Pigs are smarter than a lot of dogs, but bacon tastes so BLEEPing good. See, I'm hooked. I think it's okay to eat animals as long as they are treated well and there is no good substitute.

Teh Ebil Snorlax said:

I understand your reasons and I respect them but I'm still going to eat meat. The simple reason is, I absofuckinglutely HATE cows, chickens, ducks, sheep and pigs. Honestly. Cows scare the SHIT out of me,

Click to expand...

The way you worded that seems to me that it's the 'That cow's looking at me in an evil way!' kind of way. xD
If you're actually scared then it's understandable.

Teh Ebil Snorlax said:

chickens and ducks nearly put me in cardiac arrest (I have pennaphobia, the fear of flapping wings), I've had a phobia of sheep ever since a bunch broke out of a farm while I was walking home from school and ATTACKED me and I just don't feckin' like pigs. So I have no problem with them ending up on my plate (I hate them, not their meat).

Click to expand...

Totally understandable.



Although I wouldn't be caught dead eating a spider.

Morbid said:

I've been a vegetarian for most of my life, although tbh that was not so much because I have strong feelings about eating animals, but because I thought most meat tasted quite vile to the point where eating it made me gag. I gradually adopted some more vegetarian principles, sticking up for the animals and all that, and eventually that became the main reason for it in my mind.

This year was the first time I'd deliberately eaten meat for over a decade, not because I changed my views, but because I'd been in a pretty depressed state for a while and sort of eventually pretty much stopped caring whether or not it's ethical. And some of it tastes alright, though a lot still makes me want to throw up.

Click to expand...

Really I've eaten meat accidentally before and it tasted pretty good (except lamb, which tasted like soap). Meh, people's tastes vary a lot.

Morbid said:

As to the ethics and stuff, now I don't have much of a problem with free range farms. Animal gets a good quality of life and then is killed before it gets old and ill and diseased and in pain, sounds quite good really. :S Don't have a problem with that, it's not perfect but it'll do. What I hate is intensive farming and all that sort of thing, battery hens and all that shit. That's fucking cruel, if you take part in that you're just a cunt tbh.
hope some of that made sense, well tired lol :)

Click to expand...

Yeah I hate it how most of those birds don't even see the light of day for their entire lives and have less than 10 square centimetres each. My dad's thinking of getting ex-battery farm chickens to look after in the garden. I doubt we will seeing as how we have a cat and a dog.

Blastoise428 said:

I see the point of vegitarianism, and if A. I wasn't hooked or B. There was a good substitute, I would stop eating meat. Pigs are smarter than a lot of dogs, but bacon tastes so BLEEPing good. See, I'm hooked. I think it's okay to eat animals as long as they are treated well and there is no good substitute.

Click to expand...

Yeah apparently a lot of vegetarians have given up because the smell of bacon frying was so good. Can't see what all of the fuss is about myself, though.

Do what you want as long as you're not bothering other people about it; I don't care.

Not officially anything but I do tend to avoid meat from cows, pigs, or pretty much anything else other than chickens and seafood.

I've been a vegetarian for two years now.

I got depressed a few weeks ago because I realized that Chicken Ramen actually had real chicken in the soup base. And I've been eating Chicken Ramen forever. So, I guess technically I've only been vegetarian for two weeks.

Veggie burgers fucking rock, though. Especially the Morningstar Farms ones, with mayo and tomato... yummy.

I eat meat. It is the natural thing to do. I eat enough that I satisfy the reasonable amounts of nutrients that the human body absorbs most easily through meat.

I abhor industrial farms, such as battery hens. Cranking animals full of hormones, giving them shitty lives, etc., is disgusting and cruel.

On the other hand, free-range raised cows/chickens/whatever have a better life than you. I envy them, save for the fact that they don't get to do the things I find fun. Like, if I enjoyed eating grass as much as they do.

Even the act of killing can be done extremely well. A slit throat with anesthesia is an incredibly peaceful death, being that you don't actually feel pain from the cut (due to being knocked out or brushed with numbing stuff) and it just slowly fades away as oxygen goes out of your brain. Ironically, medieval butchers would kill much more kindly than most industrial farmers do now, because the only way to get tender meat was to have a happy, relaxed animal. If they fucked up and hurt it, they'd get fired because the meat was tough. Or at least reprimanded.

Furthermore, if handled correctly, the raising of these animals (often exuded as wasteful and inefficient) can easily be handled in an energy producing way, namely raising cows for example in a special barn that traps the gasses they release (through waste and farts/burps) to burn for energy, the cleanest combustion source possible. The cow waste itself can be... worked to produce huge amounts of this in addition, the resulting sludge then compacted into extremely high grade fertilizer. Additionally, the farm that these were raised on (firsthand experience here people) not only had an air-conditioned barn that faked rain every once and a while to keep the cows happy (and promote long-term growth without hormones) but was totally free range, and because of the lack of chemicals used the man who owned it was able to recreate a trout stream on the property (these are often destroyed when farms take over land). This man quickly became one of the most prosperous farmers in the region, hence an entire class period devoted to it's study.

Hopefully I will have provided the information to convince some people of what I consider right, namely eating meat is perfectly fine as long as you aren't stupid about it. All that I've said is extensively researched or firsthand experience, because I've talked to way too many nazi vegans who have no clue what they're talking about.

I also do not have a problem with those who are vegetarian for preference (they dislike meat for the taste, not because someone showed them a video of a KFC factory) religion (I'll tell them they're a douche for being religious, not vegetarian) or health reasons (they are intolerant somehow to meat, or something. lame-ass excuse for being fat, usually.)

I eat meat, and I like it. :3 Pretty much what Morbid and Vy said on ethics. I tried to be a vegetarian a long time ago (oddly enough, to try and lose weight o.O I was way unconfident when I was younger). However, after three weeks of trying various substutes, trying to go without it and craving scrambled eggs like a bitch, I said fuck it and went back to my precious meat.

(except lamb, which tasted like soap)

Click to expand...

O.o What kind of lamb have you been eating?

Oh man, separating these quote tags are gonna take awhile.

Vyraura said:

I eat meat. It is the natural thing to do. I eat enough that I satisfy the reasonable amounts of nutrients that the human body absorbs most easily through meat.

Click to expand...

Except for all that chocolate and ice cream I have, my diet it balanced. We (my family) don't really take notice of how much stuff we eat, and yet get a balanced diet. Yes, some nutrients are easier to absorb, or is greater in quantity in meat, but there are some alternatives.

Vyraura said:

I abhor industrial farms, such as battery hens. Cranking animals full of hormones, giving them shitty lives, etc., is disgusting and cruel.

On the other hand, free-range raised cows/chickens/whatever have a better life than you. I envy them, save for the fact that they don't get to do the things I find fun. Like, if I enjoyed eating grass as much as they do.

Click to expand...

Agree

Vyraura said:

Even the act of killing can be done extremely well. A slit throat with anesthesia is an incredibly peaceful death, being that you don't actually feel pain from the cut (due to being knocked out or brushed with numbing stuff) and it just slowly fades away as oxygen goes out of your brain. Ironically, medieval butchers would kill much more kindly than most industrial farmers do now, because the only way to get tender meat was to have a happy, relaxed animal. If they fucked up and hurt it, they'd get fired because the meat was tough. Or at least reprimanded.

Click to expand...

I'm not going to comment on the actual way of killing. I know how it being less painless is more humane, but you never actually said anything about killing - good/bad.

Vyraura said:

Furthermore, if handled correctly, the raising of these animals (often exuded as wasteful and inefficient) can easily be handled in an energy producing way, namely raising cows for example in a special barn that traps the gasses they release (through waste and farts/burps) to burn for energy, the cleanest combustion source possible. The cow waste itself can be... worked to produce huge amounts of this in addition, the resulting sludge then compacted into extremely high grade fertilizer. Additionally, the farm that these were raised on (firsthand experience here people) not only had an air-conditioned barn that faked rain every once and a while to keep the cows happy (and promote long-term growth without hormones) but was totally free range, and because of the lack of chemicals used the man who owned it was able to recreate a trout stream on the property (these are often destroyed when farms take over land). This man quickly became one of the most prosperous farmers in the region, hence an entire class period devoted to it's study.

Click to expand...

Yes, I agree with this, it doesn't really have that much affect on the animals though. You say that they're totally free range - that's a good thing, they (could) be free range anyway, but the energy saving thing is a bonus. The only thing is, if they weren't on a farm, all of the farts etc. would still go into the atmosphere. You could say nature is wasteful. Anyway, yes this kind of farming it better than the regular kind, if done right.

Vyraura said:

Hopefully I will have provided the information to convince some people of what I consider right, namely eating meat is perfectly fine as long as you aren't stupid about it. All that I've said is extensively researched or firsthand experience, because I've talked to way too many nazi vegans who have no clue what they're talking about.

Click to expand...

Although I agree that there are some 'nazi' vegans/vegetarians out there whom I also dislike (I think whom goes there), but are you saying that what I believe is wrong?

Are you one of those people who tries to convert other people?
(a whatever the equivalent of a (bad kind) of atheist is)

Vyraura said:

I also do not have a problem with those who are vegetarian for preference (they dislike meat for the taste, not because someone showed them a video of a KFC factory)

Click to expand...

I think saying you're a vegetarian because you don't like it is pretty dumb, yes you don't eat meat, but it's not you completely refuse to have it. (if you're taken to a restaurant that only does meat, or if you're given meat at a party or something)

Vyraura said:

religion (I'll tell them they're a douche for being religious, not vegetarian)

Click to expand...

Isn't the whole reasoning and ethics behind the religions' rules about meat usually the same as non-religious vegetarians?

I know that they sometimes say it's because the animal's life is 'from god(s)' or whatnot, but replace it with 'no different from a human's' or something similar, isn't it essentially the same?

Vyraura said:

or health reasons (they are intolerant somehow to meat, or something. lame-ass excuse for being fat, usually.)

Click to expand...

Yeh, agree.

EDIT:

Alexi said:

O.o What kind of lamb have you been eating?

Click to expand...

IMO

Also going by what I guess soap to taste like, since I've never eaten soap.

i eat meat because it is delicious

also eating meat is natural

Murkrow said:

I think saying you're a vegetarian because you don't like it is pretty dumb, yes you don't eat meat, but it's not you completely refuse to have it. (if you're taken to a restaurant that only does meat, or if you're given meat at a party or something)

Click to expand...

Some people, for example a couple of my friends, despise the taste of meat.

And also, one random week in April or May I didn't eat meat.

edit:

Murkrow said:

Also going by what I guess soap to taste like, since I've never eaten soap.

Click to expand...

Well try some then.
I suppose..

Vyraura the main reason I do not eat meat is still environmentalism, not animal rights. As a result of our earlier argument, I admit that eating meat is not inherently immoral. But I say that vegetarianism must by almost all measures be less selfish than eating meat. By the same token, I should not call leaving on unnecessary lights a morally absolute transgression, but it is done for oneself at the environmental expense of others, and it is more selfish than turning the lights off.

IMO

Also going by what I guess soap to taste like, since I've never eaten soap.

Click to expand...

I know what you mean, just...That just boggled my mind for a moment.

I've tasted soap (both on accident and purpose). Doesn't taste that good. Nor does it taste like lamb, but then, when I cook lamb, it's tastes like heavenjuices.

Furretsu said:

i eat meat because it is delicious

also eating meat is natural

Click to expand...

Probably going to be flamed for this but
Are you a nudist?
Being naked is natural.
Why are you on your computer?
They aren't natural.

Not eating meat is also natural.

Keeping animals to kill, scheduling when they'll be killed, and making the animal grow up so that when it eventually is food, will taste it's best isn't natural.

EDIT after seeing Ruby:
I have no problems with people who are veggie for environmental reasons in case anyone's wondering.

EDIT2:
I'm not too fond of people who say 'I'm a vegetarian... ...except for ____."

I try to be vegetarian, but then my dad tells me he doesn't like "that vegetarian crap".

<.<

Murkrow said:

I'm not going to comment on the actual way of killing. I know how it being less painless is more humane, but you never actually said anything about killing - good/bad.

Click to expand...

The only way to absorb energy without killing anything is by photosynthesis, and unfortunately we aren't plants, thus we must consume other living things to get energy and nutrients.

Vegetarianism based on ethics is simply a matter of what organisms you think it's all right to kill and what organisms you don't.

Murkrow said:

Probably going to be flamed for this but
Are you a nudist?
Being naked is natural.
Why are you on your computer?
They aren't natural.

Not eating meat is also natural.

Click to expand...

Considering the main reason we're such awesome animals that have survived the evolutionary race so well is our big, tool making brains that have allowed us to make clothes to make up for our furless selves, and computers to help against the general struggles of our society, not eating meat could be considered less natural than computers and clothing as it goes against the very capabilities we've been given as omnivores; to eat meat, whilst clothing and computers are simply the result of human nature.

Keeping animals to kill, scheduling when they'll be killed, and making the animal grow up so that when it eventually is food, will taste it's best isn't natural.

Click to expand...

It's natural, as we've been shown by many of our fellow animals, such as predatory birds, to eat animals while they're still alive.

Just felt like pointing this out.

EDIT: Oh, and I'd consider myself omnivorous.

Farming is also natural. Ants do it, after all.

GameFreakerZero said:

The only way to absorb energy without killing anything is by photosynthesis, and unfortunately we aren't plants, thus we must consume other living things to get energy and nutrients.

Vegetarianism based on ethics is simply a matter of what organisms you think it's all right to kill and what organisms you don't.

Click to expand...

I wasn't aware we killed apple trees to get the apples.

GameFreakerZero said:

Considering the main reason we're such awesome sinse when? animals that have survived the evolutionary race so well is our big, tool making brains that have allowed us to make clothes to make up for our furless selves, and computers to help against the general struggles of our society, not eating meat could be considered less natural than computers and clothing as it goes against the very capabilities we've been given as omnivores; to eat meat, whilst clothing and computers are simply the result of human nature.

Click to expand...

Not really; if you're saying computers are natural because nature has given us the ability to have tools, then can't you just say that vegetarianism is natural because nature has given us the ability to chose what to eat.

(for the next bit, I do not know if lions eat these things, it's just an example. Just assume that lions eat both horses and zebras is they don't)

If a lion eats zebras, but for some reason decides not to eat horses, does that make it unnatural?

*terrible example is terrible*

surskitty said:

Farming is also natural. Ants do it, after all.

Click to expand...

What do ants kill?
I'm not asking this in a 'you can't answer this, hahaha' way, I'm actually asking.

Murkrow said:

I wasn't aware we killed apple trees to get the apples.

Click to expand...

Unless you defecate in soil afterwards, you're disallowing another apple tree from sprouting, which is the sole reason apple trees create apples; so animals can eat them and then leave the seeds elsewhere to grow.

So effectively you're aborting an apple tree if you don't leave the remnants of the fruit on soil.

EDIT: Quick editing is quick D:

Not really; if you're saying computers are natural because nature has given us the ability to have tools, then can't you just say that vegetarianism is natural because nature has given us the ability to choose what to eat.

Click to expand...

Fair enough. Either way the 'it is/isn't natural' argument is retarded due to the fact that everything could probably be considered natural with a bit of reasoning.