D/P/Pt Not another goddamn team D:

All right. I'm building a mono-type team. I decided to go with my favorite type, Ice. It took me about three seconds to think of the nice perk of an Ice-type team: Hail. So, I am designing a mono-type hail team.

Here's the thing: I don't know the ratio I need for type. All I know is I need a majority to be a certain type, so I believe it'll either be a 4:2 (4 Ice-types, 2 anything else) or 5:1 ratio. I built my team under the assumption of the 5:1 ratio, which I thought was a given at the time. Apparently not. >.>

Anyway, here's my team so far. I need suggestions for other things to use, no matter what type. I have almost everything on my team bred and ready to use, save for the Mamoswine and Abomasnow. Nothing's EV trained yet, however.


Abomasnow @ Leftovers
Snow Warning / Timid
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 6 HP
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Blizzard
- Protect

This guy starts the magic; it's incredibly hard (if not impossible) to run a hail team without him. Once he summons hail, depending on what's out and whether or not I think they'll switch, I'll either switch out to something else (and save him for if hail is broken somehow), or stay in and set up Substitute and Leech Seed. Blizzard is the good old STAB, with massive power and 100% accuracy in hail. Protect is used for a few things; for example, it can guarantee one turn of hail damage right off the bat, breaking an opponent's Focus Sash before it can kill me off. It can also scout out Choiced moves and give me a free turn of health recovery from Leech Seed and Lefties while also giving a free turn of hail and Leech Seed damage to my foe. If Grasswhistle's accuracy didn't suck, I'd use that somewhere.


Cloyster @ Leftovers
Shell Armor / Relaxed
EVs: 252 Hp / 252 SpD / 6 SpA
- Toxic Spikes
- Blizzard
- Surf
- Explosion


Glaceon @ Choice Scarf
Snow Cloak / Modest
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
- Blizzard
- Shadow Ball
- ... oh shit bad moveset
- see above

Okay, do I even really need much else? STAB Blizzard coming off 394 SpA would break essentially anything like a twig, except maybe Blissey, who I have zero reason to stay in against anyway. I'm not gonna count on getting an HP Fight on it, but if it does have that, well, bonus. A super-effective Shadow Ball still deals less than a neutral Blizzard (unless the foe has a 4x weakness to Ghost, which I don't believe is possible this generation), and a resisted Blizzard still does more than a Shadow Ball (unless it's a .25x resistance, which I know exists). I realize HP Fight is entirely for Steel-types, though, and if it has over 45 base power it deals more than a resisted Blizz. Buuut I'm not likely to get HP Fight anyway, so. Any other things I should put on this set? Roar might be good since I don't have any other phazers, and it's a nice way to get some damage off Spikes. (Yeah my Froslass has Spikes now. Went way out of my damn way to get a male Spikes Snorunt to breed, but I did it.)


Mamoswine @ Expert Belt
Snow Cloak / Adamant
EVs: 124 Hp / 252 Atk / 64 Def / 68 SpD
- Curse
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Superpower

Tyranitar is the bane of hail sets. He counters hail with his own sandstorm, pretty much screwing me over completely, right there, just by existing. Then he continues to wreak havoc because he's Tyranitar and that's what he does. Enter Mamoswine. He's immune to both weather effects, and unless that Tyranitar runs a lot of speed, it doesn't outrun Mamoswine. As well, it gets off a 2HKO at most when holding Leftovers, which, correct me if I'm wrong, is pretty common. Mamoswine, meanwhile, OHKOs with Superpower. His second gimmick is Curse. With it, he can lower his useless speed and boost his massive attack while also increasing his rather low defense. Ice Shard bypasses the low speed, and Earthquake is just hugely powerful. Expert Belt is used here because he hits 12 out of 17 types for super-effective, which is pretty damn good. In addition, Snow Cloak is nice to help avoid potentially dangerous attacks during hail.


Walrein @ Leftovers
Ice Body / Bold
EVs: 220 HP / 240 Def / 48 Spe
- Substitute
- Protect
- Toxic
- Surf

This guy's the ringleader. Ice Body and Leftovers recovery combine to give 1/8 HP back every turn. This set abuses that in every single way possible. Substitute off the bat shields Walrein from status and damage; if I can get one in during a setup turn or when I force a switch, I essentially win. Protect on the next turn recovers another eighth of health, bringing me back up to full health from the Substitute. Next, the opponent breaks the sub, and I just make a new one. This repeats for 32 turns, with the foes dying of a combination of hail and poison (granted by Cloyster's Toxic Spikes). Toxic will hit anything that happens to not get hit by Toxic Spikes, like Flying-types. If I get the opportunity to in between, I throw in a hit from Surf for good measures. Surf is used over Blizzard because it hits for super-effective against Tyranitar, neutral against Steel-types, has more PP, and because I have too many Blizzard users. x.x


Froslass @ ... Leftovers again.
Snow Cloak / Timid
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 6 HP
- Substitute
- Confuse Ray
- Blizzard
- Destiny Bond Spikes

Frolass is supposed to piss off the opponent. Substitute on the first turn (where have we heard this before), Confuse Ray next, and start spamming Blizzard. Confusion gives only a 50% chance of hitting me, and Snow Cloak gives a 20% evasion boost. Between the two of them, I don't think she'll be getting hit often. Spikes is used in between to rack up residual damage for the rest of the team, which really helps Ringleader Walrein up there do his infinite stall strategy better. I would have put Thunder Wave over Destiny Bond to further destroy a team, but Toxic Spikes would normally be up by then, and I can't have both.


Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Liquid Ooze / Calm
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off
- Toxic Spikes
- Surf

Tentacool's annoying. TentaCRUEL, though, kicks ass. This one has plenty of utility going. Rapid Spin cleans out Stealth Rock and Spikes (it clears Toxic Spikes simply by switching in), Knock Off cripples walls like Blissey and Skarmory by getting rid of their Leftovers, and Toxic Spikes helps set up for Walrein's infinite stall. Surf because he needs some sort of attack. =/ Liquid Ooze screws with Leech Seeders, and Black Sludge punishes Trick users who hope to hit it with Choice items or just take away my only recovery methods.

So yeah, that's my team so far. Like I said, I need suggestions. Anyone have any ideas for supporting Pokemon?

Pretty good. I would suggest you switch Starmie just because you already have three water-types. Taking the idea of an Ice-type team, I would replace it w/ Weavile. My opinion, though, is if your gonna do a type oriented team, go with psychic, my fav. type! You could choose from metagross, latias, alakazam, cresselia, azelf, starmie, etc. But I never thought of all ice types. Good idea.

(actually only two Water-types)

It's the Psychic part of Starmie that's the big selling point in terms of resistances; all my other Water-types are weak to Fighting and neutral to Fire and Steel. Starmie alleviates this. I could replace Starmie with something, but if I do I'd need another Rapid Spinner.

I'll consider Weavile, but what would I replace for it?

... I'm sorry, I don't see the point in rating my Ice-type team by saying to change to Psychic. =/ Just as Psychic is your favorite type, Ice is mine, and I'm sticking with it.

Weavile would only solidify a Hail team's obligatory complete hole-in-the-armour to Fighting and Fire. Mixape already walks all over these teams. Oh, and, favourites are sort of moot don't you think?..

Starmie is your only defence against the likes of Heatran, Infernape, all the fun firebies. If I were you I would run a bulky build, not Speed/SpAtk. Alternately consider a Tentacruel; who effectively deadstops Ape, Tran, and more importantly most Skizzurs. And speaking of which, you should probably have some fire-power of your own to down those things, because the overpowered little buggers will trample this team. Heatran is amazingly cliche but often one of the only hopes for hail based teams. Confuse Ray isn't all that worth is for something like Froslass either, and I would probably suggest Spikes, as if anything Hail teams are lovely for racking up innate damage. Stealth Rock would fit somewhere in here too. A Forretress or Skarmory in place of Cloyster would fit well and boasts both fairly well (Forty moreso than Skarm), it will help with the Skizzur weakness; but not the fire. It would be best paired with Tentacruel who easily soaks up the special hits aimed at it, and having all three hazards will make StallSeed Abomasnow happy.

What what I rated a team what's going on here.

Ooh Tentacruel. Always wanted to try one of those little buggers out; it could probably use Toxic Spikes a hell of a lot better than Cloyster, huh. (Stops most Scizors wtf I thought all Scizors couldn't do shit to him. What does 'zor have that hits for neutral or better on it, Wing Attack? o.o) It can Rapid Spin too apparently. Bit odd for a huge jellyfish, but okay.

I dunno, I figured Confuse Ray on Froslass would be a great way to ensure she essentially never got touched. I didn't think Spikes was all that important on this set, but if so, okay. (Now to go hunting for yet another Dawn Stone. And more breeding. Fun shit. D:) Again, though, I love the fact that, with Confuse Ray, 40% of opponents' turns will essentially do nothing, and the 40% that do just hit a Sub. Should I drop Destiny Bond instead?

Now I'm gonna go find a set for a Tentacruel that I can use. (Ooh, Knock Off...)

As silly as it sounds, Quick Attack. After a Swords Dance/Technician it will hurt Tenta. This is exactly why Skizzur is broken crap and why you will occasionally see Dual-Priority sets.

And Tentacruel is indeed an inherent HailSpinner, which is why I suggested it over Starmie. It loses Recover unfortunately, but gains a Bug resist among others.
Also Confuse Ray is unreliable, I dunno that's a bit of bias from me. I prefer the innate damage in hail. I just find relying on hax to be eeeeh.. It DOES pair with Snow Cloak.

I used to use Quick Attack on my own Scizor too, now that I think about it. It's pretty damn weak even with Technician, though. I haven't run into many Scizors that run Quick Attack, either.

Checking out Tentacruel's resistances, it has plenty of them, which is nice. No 4x weaknesses is a nice bonus too. I'm thinking I'll run Toxic Spikes, Surf, Rapid Spin, and Knock Off. TSpikes essentially breaks all purpose behind Cloyster minus maybe physical walling, Surf serves as STAB, Rapid Spin destroys entry hazards, and Knock Off stops Lefties recovery from negating hail, as well as get rid of other potentially dangerous items.

Defender HP: 364
Move Damage: 177 - 209
Damage: 48.63% - 57.42%

Trust me, it hurts. xP But it's not a huge worry. And I would indeed drop Cloyster if I were you, not very efficient in this setup.

Okay, so what should I replace Cloyster with if Tentacruel's replacing Starmie? I think you said Forretress and Skarmory are options.

Also, I managed to breed a Calm Liquid Ooze Rapid Spin Tentacool already. That was fast, considering how shitty my luck is normally. Now I need to find someone with Platinum who can tutor Knock Off. =/

I would like to suggest a Clefable even though it's kinda -- yeah. Magic Guard shields you from Hail damage, so you're good there.

Either run a Toxic Orb + Facade set to absorb status or go for Gravity abuse: it'll let (Toxic) Spikes hit whatever and, more importantly, lower evasion by 2 levels so you get Fire Blast, Thunder, or Focus Blast as high-accuracy options and make up for Clefable's anemic SpAtk. Head hurts a bit much to give you a particular set, but do remember that Clefable can also get Wish.

Glaceon's nice with the strongest unboosted blizzard in the game, and choice scarf makes it reasonably fast, too; I run max speed and sp attack, timid, ice beam / shadow ball / hp fight / blizzard for my hail team, but modest can be substituted for the nature and hp electric is useful sometimes, and wish is usable if you don't have time for hidden power.

Both Clefable and Glaceon are good ideas. I've actually considered both of those already, but decided against them. I'll look into them, though.

(also I hate Choice sets D: hopefully I'll find a way to deal with Glaceon's abysmal speed that doesn't require a Choice Scarf. If not I'll just deal with it.)

If you go with Clefable, I highly recommend some sort of Gravity set. They're not popular and I have no idea why and it's also one of those things that no one prepares for since yeah Gravity. Do iiiiiiit.

Yeah, I already have an idea for a Gravity set.


Clefable @ Flame Orb
Magic Guard / Bold
EVs: 252 HP / 152 Def / 104 SpA
- Gravity
- Trick
- Thunder
- Fire Blast

First turn, I use Gravity and let Flame Orb kick in. Next, I Trick the Flame Orb onto a threatening sweeper. Thunder and Fire Blast serve as the attacks here, although I could probably drop something for Wish or Softboiled. I may use Focus Blast or Protect as well.

Gravity only lasts three turns, though, and you're actually possibly better off Tricking the Flame Orb over to something with Leftovers. Any sweeper you'd want to burn rather than poison is probably going to have a Choice Band or Choice Scarf and that's not good for your Clefable. Hell, even a Choice Specs is a bit of a problem and that at least is the right type of damage.

... yeah, didn't think that through. Sending a Flame Orb to a sweeper's kinda pointless if Toxic Spikes are up. Also what I thought Gravity lasted 5 turns like Trick Room.

Meh, in any case, I think I'm gonna work on a Glaceon set instead. Because Glaceon's just awesome. I think I can deal with a Choice set on something like Glaceon too, since its defenses are decent and it gets Snow Cloak, so.

EDIT: OKAY OKAY GLACEON SET.


Glaceon @ Choice Scarf
Snow Cloak / Modest
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
- Blizzard
- Shadow Ball
- ... oh shit bad moveset
- see above

Okay, do I even really need much else? STAB Blizzard coming off 394 SpA would break essentially anything like a twig, except maybe Blissey, who I have zero reason to stay in against anyway. I'm not gonna count on getting an HP Fight on it, but if it does have that, well, bonus. A super-effective Shadow Ball still deals less than a neutral Blizzard (unless the foe has a 4x weakness to Ghost, which I don't believe is possible this generation), and a resisted Blizzard still does more than a Shadow Ball (unless it's a .25x resistance, which I know exists). I realize HP Fight is entirely for Steel-types, though, and if it has over 45 base power it deals more than a resisted Blizz. Buuut I'm not likely to get HP Fight anyway, so. Any other things I should put on this set? Roar might be good since I don't have any other phazers, and it's a nice way to get some damage off Spikes. (Yeah my Froslass has Spikes now. Went way out of my damn way to get a male Spikes Snorunt to breed, but I did it.)

Gravity lasts five turns actually.

Clefable gets Stealth Rock, I think.

Glaceon can have wish or yawn (but not both), roar, mirror coat. It gets quick attack and ice shard, but those are physical. Ice Beam for extra PP, maybe. Seriously, the only other useful attacks it gets are icy wind and mud slap, and maybe signal beam.
Try passing wishes; it's only going to stay in one turn, so the scarf won't matter.

Roar is wasted on a choice set.

And if you got rid of Cloyster, what's stallrein doing?

Glaceon:
-Blizzard
-Shadow Ball
-HP Fighting
-Water Pulse or Fake Tears

Not great but I hope that'll do.

Also, I think you're lacking in the physical attack area, so I'd suggest this: (Provided you can get platinum tutors).
Lapras, Adamant nature. (Lonely if using Blizzard as the final attack.)
252 Atk, 252 HP, 4 Speed.
-Dragon Dance
-Outrage
-Waterfall
-Ice Shard/Iron Head, maybe even blizzard.

This set can hit everything except empoleon for at least neutral damage. Oh, and Shedinja; not like it won't die against hail in one turn anyway.

I'm unsure what you'd want to go with item-wise. Lum Berry would be my personal preference as paralysis really hurts the speed boost from Dragon Dance. Persim berry would do well if you purely want to get rid of the confusion induced by Outrage though. :3

Mirror Coat might work. I'll pray to god the shiny Eevee I managed to get has HP Fight, but that's not likely. I'm also considering putting Sleep Talk on there; it'll let her absorb sleep from things like Gengar.

sreservoir said:

And if you got rid of Cloyster, what's stallrein doing?

Click to expand...

I have Tentacruel for Toxic Spikes support now. It gets Rapid Spin and Knock Off for even more utility. Dunno if that's what you meant, but it's about the only thing I can think of that Cloyster would have done for Walrein. =/

Lapras might not be a bad option, but what would I drop for it?

I don't know. I'd probably train extra Pokémon and do a mix-and-match type thing and see what works best.

I mean, if Pokémon "x" isn't working in your team, replace it with Pokémon "y". Just a process of trial and error. Just a case of seeing what works against other people. I'd personally replace Walrein, but that's only because I don't like extreme stall sets.

The special thing about a Dragon Dance Lapras is that I suspect most people would expect it to have a boltbeam set rather than a physical set. It has the same base attack as base special attack though.

The set chosen doesn't necessarily involve Blizzard, so it isn't as reliant on hail as Glaceon or Abomasnow, but I can see you've got that covered anyway.

To be honest, I'd have a rock or ground type in there so that you can switch Lapras into any water attacks and get the Water Absorb going. Plus, having an extra ground type reduces your weakness rock, ground, fire (and somewhat electic) as it is offensively strong against these types. Plus in my opinion, it's a better switch-in than Walrein.