Same-sex reproduction and cloning

1) Are you comfortable/do you think people are comfortable with the idea of cloning?

2) How about creating a new zygote from two same-sex people? (I don't want to call this cloning, but I don't really know what to call it.)

3) What kinds of cloning laws would you deem necessary for this kind of thing, either related to cloning in general or same-sex reproduction?

4) Do you think cloning or same-sex reproduction should be a gay issue?

Discuss.

This article kind of prompted this, by the way.

Oh, look, Blastoise has an opinion.

Cloning animals/plants for agricultural or scientific purposes is okay, I guess. Gorillas and stuff might be crossing a line, since they're smart enough to understand the basic concept, and might be confused and/or emotionally damaged by the idea of being a clone.

With human cloning, I'm under the impression that:

A. People are too ignorant of the cloning process/too biased from Hollywood for cloning cloning to become a widespread thing anytime really soon.

B. There are... ethical problems, I guess. I am all for, say, the cloning of body parts for skin grafts or heart replacement, but creating a whole human just because we can seems a bit selfish.

Plus, there is the risk of some rich, grieving widow commissioning a clone of her husband, who would in all likelihood be nothing like his dead 'twin'.

Gay people having biological kids is great and all, but a lot of people don't seem yo be ready for that sort of thing, to be honest.

Cool topic, by the way.

I really don't like the idea that people would want to make people. There's a certain border I don't think humans shouldn't be able to cross, and creation on this kind of scale is a bit beyond that border, imo.

i might be completely, completely wrong when i say this, but as i understand it, cloning is basically just like you're creating an identical twin, right? after all, identical twins have the same dna, and a clone is simply an organism with the same dna as the original. and it's not like when you clone someone, an adult human just *poof!* appears with all the same memories as the original, right? the clone has to develop and mature just like the original. if this is all true, then i really don't see anything wrong with just making a little baby identical twin of someone.

although to be fair, the last thing the world needs is more people.

that people would want to make people

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Sexual reproduction, anyone? Asexual, too, for that matter...

The way I feel, about cloning in general, is that, while it may be squick*-inducing for many, it seems like it's the kind of technology that is relatively inevitable, and, so, any sort of negative legislation could have problems down the line. Like, pre-discrimination against future clones. Also, it's kind of like other unpopular medical things, if it's not legalized then people will do it anyway, but it'll be unsafe and unregulated.

*Sorry....

Identical twins are clones. When people finally start grasping this, maybe some of the downright idiotic arguments I've heard against cloning will finally go away.

Cloning should be banned no matter what it's for.

Cloning should be banned no matter what it's for.

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Because? Please don't just state your opinion without trying to articulate it at any length.

I don't have a problem with cloning body parts or stuff like blood, but I don't see the reason for more people on an already overpopulated planet. Why would we create more people when there are other people dying because they can't get to basic resources like drinking water?
I mean creating children for homosexual couples or couples who can't conceive sounds like a really great idea and I'm sure it'd make hundreds of people happy, but I'd feel guilty knowing that people can go to great lengths accumulating so much wealth to create new life and totally ignore other people who already do exist.
I do like the idea of cloning animals that are on the brink of extinction, but I guess it would probably go wrong when you're trying to breed animals from such a limited genepool.

I do like the idea of cloning animals that are on the brink of extinction, but I guess it would probably go wrong when you're trying to breed animals from such a limited genepool.

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That could easily be avoided with some foresight - take plenty of samples of endangered animals and store them. Though I think there are very few species with few enough individuals that cloning wouldn't be viable.

Cloning can be done for emotional purposes. Yeah. Why not, anyway. Parents will always want their children back when they lose them unexpectedly. If we can do it, and it's safe, clone them. Then again, nature made it clear a lot of times that it's unsafe to abuse it any longer. As long as no business is turned out of cloning. I'm with it, to an extent at least.

Cloning is great! Same-sex reproduction is awesome! LET'S DO IT. I have no problems with any of the things you presented. Perhaps it's a bad idea to create more people when we already have lots, but oh well.

I want to propagate my genes!

I'm comfortable with the idea, as long as it's for purposes such as same-sex and inconcievable couples, along with people who can't find a girlfriend/boyfriend and want to be parents, but I don't think that It should be done just for the idea of cloning. I'm sure that many people that I know won't share my opinion, though.

Cloning for the purposes of saving endangered species is a great idea.

Like all the potentially unethical industries I support, I'm in favour of properly-regulated cloning.

I really don't understand this "But the planet is so overpopulated! D:" argument at all. The people who would go for this sort of thing are a) an absolutely tiny minority and b) almost exclusively rich and Western. Rich Western countries do not have an overpopulation problem. The world globally might, and if you see it as a serious issue, take some condoms over to Africa and teach people how to use them (or at least fight for some decent sex ed in the country in which you currently live).
Yes, some people in RWCs have massive amounts of children and can't afford to take care of them all, but people willing to shell out the amount it costs are likely to be of the more educated variety.

Why would we create more people when there are other people dying because they can't get to basic resources like drinking water?

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Why would we buy TVs when there are people dying of AIDs in Africa? Why do we drive cars when there are children being sex trafficked in the Phillipines? I don't for one minute think these things are acceptable, but I do think using the existence of bad things as a reason for stopping a branch of science that would improve people's lives is wrong. :/

I really don't see why there ought to be anything wrong with cloning whatsoever. You're uncomfortable with "creating life"? Oh, come on; stop pretending the creation of life is something mystical and godlike. There is no functional difference between normal in vitro fertilization and cloning in terms of the creating life aspect, and only a very superficial one between those and natural conception. Ethical issues? What the hell is so ethically dubious about happening to look identical to somebody else? Are identical twins worse for it? Given the age difference there would usually be between a person and their clone and the fact they would wear different clothes, get different haircuts and so on, they wouldn't even necessarily be identical at all. And of course, they'll be different individuals who make independent decisions and do different things with their lives. The only problem it would really create is making it impossible to recognize people reliably by sight, and yet again, that's a problem that already exists for identical twins, and yet they do just fine.

Sure, when there are only a few clones in the world, they might feel weird and different for it, but if cloning were to become a normal thing? There would be no need for any sort of an identity crisis just due to being a clone.

Same-sex reproduction, yes all the way. There are not even those minor issues with it. In practice it's identical to regular in vitro fertilization, and really, why shouldn't same-sex couples get to have children that are genetically theirs when it's perfectly possible and would make them happy?

Also with Dannichu on the "but we can't be creating more people!" thing.

The idea of cloning.....Disturbs me. I don't have a problem with clones or at least a serious one, I do think same-sex couples have a right to children and all but clones just don't seem like something we'd need. Cloning endangered speceis and body parts is of course a good idea, (I'll need a probably need a kidney in fourty years) but humans don't have a purpose other than research to clone humans. Cloning for same-sex couples is all I would agree with. I could also see someone making a kid look just like they want it to or something like that too, but the world should focus on something more dire. Global Warming, Terrorism, something like that. Cloning can wait, especially if it's humans they're cloning.

.....

Actually, I'm sorta with you there. Why do we need full human clones? I don't find anything wrong with it, I just don't understand why (except perhaps in the case of saviour siblings which raises a whole mess of ethical questions completely unrelated to "just" cloning) anyone would want to make a person with identical DNA to another person.

It seems to me that, regardless of whether there's good reason or not to create full human clones, the law and general public should realize that science marches on, an eventually it will be reality. And we should be prepared for it.

Agree with everything Dannichu and Butterfree said.

Dannichu said:

Actually, I'm sorta with you there. Why do we need full human clones? I don't find anything wrong with it, I just don't understand why (except perhaps in the case of saviour siblings which raises a whole mess of ethical questions completely unrelated to "just" cloning) anyone would want to make a person with identical DNA to another person.

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Well there are whole genres of porn involving twins, triplets etc....

But no, I agree with everything you and Butterfree have said in your posts. There are no issues at all with cloning or same-sex reproduction. It's just doing in the lab what we're already doing in the bed, and honestly I don't see why we shouldn't do this when we have the technology.

I'd be insanely happy to pay for something such as this in the future (and I genuinely hope I'll be able to do so!) and I'd wager that many, many homosexuals (and mothers of homosexuals) around the world would be, too.

"I'm gay, Mum."
"NOOOO WHAT ABOUT MY GRANDCHILDREN?"
"Well, there's this procedure..."
"REALLY? HOW MUCH IS IT? I'LL PAY! TWICE! THREE TIMES!! HAVE AS MANY CHILDREN AS YOU WANT, WE'LL TOTALLY REMORTAGE THE HOUSE IF WE NEED TO..."

I don't actually understand why people think there are "ethical issues" with "creating life," though. What do you think you're doing when you have unprotected sex with someone of the opposite sex? IVF?