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HG/SS What? Slow Pokemon?

Chief Zackrai

Chief Zackrai

pingpong wixard
Yeah, I mostly wanted to try my hand at a Trick Room team. This is what I came up with.

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W/ Choice Band N: Adamant Ability: Pressure
Ice Punch
Ice Shard
Pursuit
Brick Break

Now this is neither a lead, or a slow Pokemon. I'm going to use him when I've got no more Slow Pokemon/ Trick Room Pokemon. Will be EV trained in Attack and Speed.

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W/Iron Ball N:Brave Ability: Levitate
Trick Room
Stealth Rock
Explosion
Zen Headbutt

Brave to play with his higher Attack, and Trick Room. Zen Headbutt for some STAB. Will be EV trained in Attack and HP.

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W/Life Orb N: Quiet Ability: Oblivious
Trick Room
Surf
Ice Beam
Flamethrower

My other Trick Room Pokemon, he uses Quiet for the same reasons as Bronzong uses Brave. Raises Dominant Attack, lowers Speed. Flamethrower is thrown in for good measure. Will be EV trained in Sp. Attack and HP.

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W/Expert Belt N:Quiet Ability: Chlorophyll
Power Whip
Sludge Bomb
Sunny Day
Sleep Powder
Sludge Bomb is a very powerful move, I find. In-game, against pokemon that aren't weak to it, this move pretty much tears through their HP. Will be EV trained in Sp. Attack and HP.

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W/Thick Club N: Adamant Ability:Rock Head
Earthquake
Stone Edge
Fire Punch
Double-Edge

Not much to say for this one... Will be EV trained in Attack and HP.

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W/Life Orb N: Quiet Ability: Static
Thunderbolt
Focus Blast
Thunder Wave
Power Gem

... and my Ampharos. Focus Blast to rip through things. Will be EV trained in Sp. Attack and HP.

I haven't thought much about this, but I hope the outcome is positive!
 
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no, but if you go to shoody battle on the smogon server i'll be right there.

actually, i have to go right now, i'll be on later.
 
I've never used a Trick Room team before, but my main concern with that team would be; both of the Pokémon setting up your Trick Room share the same weaknesses in Ghost and Dark. If you're opponent can get a Dark type attack on you and Trick Room ends, you can't get it back up again. And that obviously ruins the team.

My suggestion would be to use Bronzong in the place of Dusknoir. Bronzong is a fantastic user of Trick Room anyway because of his bulkiness, but at the same time he can take the Electric attacks aimed at Slowking whilst Slowking can take the Fire attacks going for Bronzong. He still doesn't quite alleviate the Dark and Ghost weaknesses since he takes neutral from them, but that's better than both of your key members taking 2x damage form the same things.


Rest of the team seems fairly sound, though. Except that Protect looks out of place on the Ampharos. For starters, it's hardly bulky enough to pull off ToxicStall in OU, and secondly, Protect is a waste of a Trick Room turn since Protect has priority anyway.
 
yeah, i thought about the Ampharos problem... maybe I could give him thunder wave (for when I can't trick room) and Hyper Beam? I know Hyper Beam is not condoned, but I can't think of much else, because Vespiquen knows both Signal Beam and Power Gem. Of course Power Gem would be useful on him as well...

Also, the Gyro Ball on Torkoal has to go. It just doesn't do enough damage. This might be because I tried to use a physical move on a pokemon that is focused on Sp. Attacks... I'm thinking Earth Power there.
 
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In my experience with Trick Room teams, they generally have two or three pokemon that set up Trick Room, which are very defensive, and then 2 pokemon to deal heavy damage. At the moment, your team is a bit strange, in that most of the pokemon you're using to deal damage are more commonly used as defensive pokemon, such as Bronzong, Slowking and Vespiquen. I would suggest swapping Vespiquen out for a more powerful Pokemon. Remember, Trick Room only lasts for a limited time, so you'll want to be able to hit extremely hard within that limited time. Bronzong and Slowking are good, but could do with more defensive EV spreads as you'll want to preserve at least one of them throughout the match to set up Trick Room.

Personally, I've had good experience with Choice Specs Camerupt. 150 Base power Eruption boosted by Chocie Specs and STAB is quite phenomenal, especially considering Camerupt will essentially outspeed everything in Trick Room. Similarly, Octillery can use Choice Specs Water Spout for the same effect and has some other excellent special attacking options. If you decide to use one of these I would suggest putting Explosion on Bronzong, so it can set up Trick Room then Explode, allowing Octillery or Camerupt to come into the battle without taking any damage (apart from SR...) while also giving them the maximum amount of time to sweep. Remember, Water Spout and Eruption's power depends on the user's HP.

Iron Ball would be a good item for Bronzong, to boost Gyro Ball's power.

A note about EV spreads: almost always max out HP before investing in defenses. Think about it - HP is affected by attacks on both the special side and the physical side so it makes more sense to maximise it. The only exceptions are pokemon with ridiculously high HP anyway, such as Wobbuffet.
 
So if I ditch vepiquen and torkoal and put in Octillery and Camerupt?

Yes, if I took Earthquake off of Bronzong for explosion, I could replace that with a move on Camerupt... Oh, and what I love is that Ampharos is extremely useful; he rips through most teams.

Oh, and Once, I used Trick Room with Slowking, and then I continued to take out the person's lead (I forget what it was), Aerodactyl, and Scizor with one hit. I had to laugh because the person was so freaked out that I had just used Flamethrower with a water-type pokemon.
 
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with water/poison coverage, you don't really need energy ball and signal beam. surf for consistency, I guess? octillery has a really shallow movepool.
 
Surf works, and Energy Ball is mostly for the one person who will be like "haha! how will you counter my Swampert/Gastrodon/Quagsire?!?" And then my Energy Ball eats their soul.
 
Thunder Wave should be avoided on Amphaos because if you hit something with it while Trick Room is up, suddenly your opponent has the upper hand again as they are slower.

You don't want Explosion on Bronzong because you want to keep him, and Slowking, alive for as long as possible since they are the two members making you're plan work. Lose one and you effectively half your chances of winning.

On Octillery, I would go for Ice Beam instead of Sludge Bomb because Poison has generally poor coverage.
 
Ampharos only knows Thunder Wave for after I have lost both of my Trick Roomers. Also, Let's say Bronzong has low hit points. Trick Room -> Explosion, send out one of my other pokemon that are slow, while making quite the blow, if not one with me.

I already have Ice Beam on my team (Plus Weavile), and Sludge Bomb essentially drains hit points with the possibility of poisoning/badly poisoning.
 
Zackrinian said:
Surf works, and Energy Ball is mostly for the one person who will be like "haha! how will you counter my Swampert/Gastrodon/Quagsire?!?" And then my Energy Ball eats their soul.
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swampert and gastrodon can eat STAB surf or water spout. quagsire is a pain, but is ridiculously uncommon and has worse special defense than octillery

signal beam is still horribly unnecessary.

Evil Link said:
Thunder Wave should be avoided on Amphaos because if you hit something with it while Trick Room is up, suddenly your opponent has the upper hand again as they are slower.
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yeah but uh ampharos has ridiculously shallow movepool and t-wave is like the best it can do.

You don't want Explosion on Bronzong because you want to keep him, and Slowking, alive for as long as possible since they are the two members making you're plan work. Lose one and you effectively half your chances of winning.
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you only need one TRer to actually get it up. and plenty of times, you actually need to get in there for free. water spout and eruption kind of depend on that.

On Octillery, I would go for Ice Beam instead of Sludge Bomb because Poison has generally poor coverage.
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water/poison > water/ice because not walled by water-types, especially those named lapras.

EDIT: Vixie: it doesn't.
 
I mean on octillery. empoleon switches in on any move, subs down to petaya, agility, and proceeds to sweep. also: might want stealth rock on bronzong.
 
sreservoir said:
yeah but uh ampharos has ridiculously shallow movepool and t-wave is like the best it can do.
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Give it Hidden Power Ice or Grass, then. Hidden Power Ice would be generally more usable since it hits Flygon that otherwise sponges anything Ampharos throws at it. As I said, Thunder Wave goes against what a Trick Room team should be doing; being slower.

sreservoir said:
you only need one TRer to actually get it up. and plenty of times, you actually need to get in there for free. water spout and eruption kind of depend on that.
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Sorry, didn't quite understand that. Sure you only need one Pokémon to get Trick Room up, but what happens when that Pokémon faints? The team is ruined. Keeping the Trick Roomers alive is key to the team working. As you say, Water Spout and Eruption need to come in almost for free. For that reason, you can't have the Trick Room users sharing the same weaknesses as the sweepers, else you'll never get them.

sreservoir said:
water/poison > water/ice because not walled by water-types, especially those named lapras.
Click to expand...
But he wouldn't be using Water/Ice, he'd be using Water/Ice/Grass, which has far more coverage than Water/Grass/Poison. Namely, it hits Dragons, but also gives you a better time against Flying types too.
 
Full Power Water Spout vs. Standard SubPetaya Empoleon - 37% - 43.8%
This is without any boosts from items. Therefore, if Octillery can manage to not do minimum damage to on both hits (one on the switch in and one on the next turn when it outspeeds), Empoleon will not be able to set up a substitute.

Charge Beam is 50 power whereas STAB max power Water Spout is 225. Even against Empoleon, Water Spout is going to do more. (50x2 = 100, 225/2 = 112.5)

Oh, and you might want to consider a Physical sweeper instead of Camerupt. Aggron can work wonders due to Head Smash having no recoil on Aggron. Rampardos can work too but it can NEVER switch in and lacks the ability to use Head Smash.
 
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