• Welcome to The Cave of Dragonflies forums, where the smallest bugs live alongside the strongest dragons.

    Guests are not able to post messages or even read certain areas of the forums. Now, that's boring, don't you think? Registration, on the other hand, is simple, completely free of charge, and does not require you to give out any personal information at all. As soon as you register, you can take part in some of the happy fun things at the forums such as posting messages, voting in polls, sending private messages to people and being told that this is where we drink tea and eat cod.

    Of course I'm not forcing you to do anything if you don't want to, but seriously, what have you got to lose? Five seconds of your life?

Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread

Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread

And finally, did anyone get a report like the one Butterfree got yesterday? If you think it's in the innocents' best interests not to publicize the information in the report, then fine, but at least let us know if you received a report at all, please.
I didn't get one, at least, but... that really makes sense, because last night only Superbird had died, so there was nobody new for them to target. I'd expect them to target Zero Moment tonight.

Iiii've actually been getting the biggest mafia vibes off Altissimo this game for some reason. It's purely a vague hunch about the way she's been talking and acting in the thread that I couldn't even properly explain, so you should probably not take it too seriously, buuuut last time I had these sorts of mafia vibes about somebody in a mafia game I turned out to be totally correct, so I can't help but be a bit wary.

So if we want to lynch today, and assuming we don't get any more information to point us towards somebody, I'd vote Altissimo.
 
Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread

FLORA, you haven't really spoken and you're the only one who hasn't made a claim whatsoever. Have anything you want to share?

Yeah sorry about my quietness; my Tuesdays and Thursdays are regularly eaten by my capstone class.

My role is...weird. Basically I'm vigilante but if I hit a Mafia member I fucking die so I've been abstaining nightly because i can't figure out a scenario where that's worth it.

As for altissimo, she generally has a tendency to shitpost in mafia games (or just generally post at night/when dead), so as far as I can tell her posting peculiarities aren't necessarily mafia-coded. Doesn't mean she's innocent, mind you, but that's just my take on the scenario.
 
Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread

Sorry again for lateness, school keeps getting in the way. I'll try to post more often from now on though

Zapi — can broadcast the number of people who target a user of their choice. Didn't do anything N0; targeted JackPK N1.
As I said before, I actually targeted Nira N1 and I'm assuming it was redirected to you. Just wanted to clarify.

ZAPI, there was no broadcast today. Did you refrain from using your power, or are we to assume it got turned off as a result of VM's switch?

I did use my power last night (on Negrek, as chosen by the almighty RNG), but I'm guessing it didn't go through because of either VM's switch or someone roleblocking me or something. (On that note, if anyone has anyone specific they want me to try to broadcast, let me know!)

Re: Butterfree's post, is Altissimo's behavior in this game any different from how she usually is in mafia games? I don't think I've been in enough mafia games with her to make a sound judgment, but I guess if no one else has any better ideas...?

Oh and I haven't gotten any PMs similar to the one Butterfree posted before, either, but as Butterfree said, that's probably because no one else died N1/D2.
 
Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread

I didn't get one, at least, but... that really makes sense, because last night only Superbird had died, so there was nobody new for them to target. I'd expect them to target Zero Moment tonight.

Iiii've actually been getting the biggest mafia vibes off Altissimo this game for some reason. It's purely a vague hunch about the way she's been talking and acting in the thread that I couldn't even properly explain, so you should probably not take it too seriously, buuuut last time I had these sorts of mafia vibes about somebody in a mafia game I turned out to be totally correct, so I can't help but be a bit wary.

So if we want to lynch today, and assuming we don't get any more information to point us towards somebody, I'd vote Altissimo.

I may as well address your post while I can - since like I said I'll be away a lot tomorrow.

I... don't know that I can really take your assessment of my posting habits in this game at face value. Like obviously not because I'm the one being accused here, but... you admitted that you can't even explain the vibes you're getting. So I don't really know what I'm supposed to be getting out of this... like if you can't explain why my posts in this game are suspect, then how do I know you even have a reason to think I'm suspicious? Does that make sense?

If I've been posting any differently than normal, the most I can say is that it's been a while since I've been in a Mafia and I'm trying to be enthusiastic because so many of the previous Mafias have just died and it's very disappointing. I know I've shitpost and generally been cryptic, but like Flora said, I do that a lot, not just in this game.
 
Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread

As for altissimo, she generally has a tendency to shitpost in mafia games (or just generally post at night/when dead), so as far as I can tell her posting peculiarities aren't necessarily mafia-coded. Doesn't mean she's innocent, mind you, but that's just my take on the scenario.

... didn't see this before I posted, whoops. I still don't think I know enough about her to make a sound judgment myself though

(Also, has not being able to edit your own posts always been a thing in mafia threads??)
 
Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread

Vipera Magnifica said:
Okay I'm just gonna spill my role because I still haven't figured out exactly what it's useful for, and I can probably be more helpful if I make it public knowledge. MF explained my role as being a "Switch". At any point, I can switch on/off: voting/killing actions, and/or disruptive actions. If I switch off voting/killing actions, all the vigs, CPR doctors, vote thieves, and etc. have their actions blocked. If I switch off disruptive actions, roleblockers, redirectors, framers, and other disruptive actions will be blocked. I can even switch both off at the same time. Here's the catch: Only innocent players are affected by these switches. I can't just turn off the killing switch and prevent the mafia from ever killing (although that would be kind of hilarious).
I gotta say, this sounds like kind of the worst role ever? It would be very useful as a scum role, but I'm not seeing much way that it would be anything other than harmful to Town, considering that it can only work against innocent players. Like maybe if you had an axe-crazy vig you really want to shut down, but other than that... seriously?

Anyway, I do think we should kill someone today. There are ten players left, I'm innocent, and I'm feeling fairly confident JackPK, Nira, and possibly Zapi are innocent. Given 2-4 scum players out of the remaining six, we'd have at least a 33% chance of hitting a scum player even if we randlynched.

I haven't gotten any particular mafia vibes off of Altissimo, and tbh I'd feel kind of bad lynching her given that she's going to be away and I know from experience how shitty it is to get lynched when you're not around to be able to say anything. Haven't got any particular reason to believe she's innocent either, though.

I did not receive any notes from beyond the grave last night, but as has been pointed out I wouldn't have expected to because nobody died the previous night/day.
 
Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread

Flora said:
My role is...weird. Basically I'm vigilante but if I hit a Mafia member I fucking die so I've been abstaining nightly because i can't figure out a scenario where that's worth it.
That's another strange one, yeah. Given that iirc almost nobody ever uses their vig powers in MF's games, it seems weird that he'd then give you one with downside unless you have some additional ability or there's some sort of weird interaction with another role. Then again, the one game where I did get a vig ability my role was set up in such a way that it was actually really a bad idea to use it (I did anyway and it was glorious).

I did use my power last night (on Negrek, as chosen by the almighty RNG), but I'm guessing it didn't go through because of either VM's switch or someone roleblocking me or something. (On that note, if anyone has anyone specific they want me to try to broadcast, let me know!)
Wouldn't it more likely mean that nobody (besides you) targetted me last night?

JackPK said:
(Also, has not being able to edit your own posts always been a thing in mafia threads??)
It was added at some point, but I don't remember when.
 
Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread

My role is basically recruiting people into a separate thread (the people I choose can talk to me and each other whenever). It has no other end goal other than just... getting people all together into a thread and making them talk. First I used it on Altissimo, and then on Kratos, but last night I didn't use it.

There's just one condition: if I die, it gets disbanded.

From the little discussion there has been, Alti comes off as innocent. I honestly can't say about Kratos.
 
Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread

Why didn't you use it last night?
 
Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread

Wouldn't it more likely mean that nobody (besides you) targetted me last night?
I assumed my power counts myself as one of the targeters, since my role PM didn't specify otherwise, but I suppose that's a possibility as well. I'll have to ask MF for clarification.

It was added at some point, but I don't remember when.
it might've been sometime in the years I was away then. Or it might have been there since I joined, knowing my horrible memory that's always possibility lol
 
Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread

I was figuring it didn't count you, based on the scenario that occurred the other night (if we have anything like an accurate picture of it): your action was redirected to JackPK, who was targeted by Nira and also himself, and the readout was two actions, whereas if yours counted I would expect three.

Best to ask, though! If it turns out your own action does count, that makes that same scenario the night before last even more interesting.
 
Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread

My role is basically recruiting people into a separate thread (the people I choose can talk to me and each other whenever). It has no other end goal other than just... getting people all together into a thread and making them talk. First I used it on Altissimo, and then on Kratos, but last night I didn't use it.

There's just one condition: if I die, it gets disbanded.

From the little discussion there has been, Alti comes off as innocent. I honestly can't say about Kratos.

Why didn't you use it last night?

Forgot to send it in (schoolwork and whatnot).

Easy enough for us to semi-verify this claim: ILS inducts someone tonight. Then tomorrow, whoever gets inducted can confirm, or if nobody confirms we can assume ILS is lying.

(Three people already in the group isn't significantly less than the number of scum I would expect us to have, so if he's faking the claim and has named his mafia buddies to corroborate his story, it'll be pretty clear either tomorrow or the next day when people stop getting inducted. That'd be a pretty sloppy way for the scum faction to lose, though, so I doubt ILS is pulling that gambit. Something to keep in mind just in case, though.)

I'd also really love to hear from Altissimo and Kratos about this thread and what their impressions are of each other's and ILS's possible innocence/scumminess.

Anyway, I do think we should kill someone today. There are ten players left, I'm innocent, and I'm feeling fairly confident JackPK, Nira, and possibly Zapi are innocent. Given 2-4 scum players out of the remaining six, we'd have at least a 33% chance of hitting a scum player even if we randlynched.

I haven't gotten any particular mafia vibes off of Altissimo, and tbh I'd feel kind of bad lynching her given that she's going to be away and I know from experience how shitty it is to get lynched when you're not around to be able to say anything. Haven't got any particular reason to believe she's innocent either, though.

Honestly, with how quick Flora was to defend Altissimo, I would somewhat suspect one of them IF the other flips mafia eventually. But honestly I'm not getting mafia vibes from them, either.

If we exclude — just for now — me, Nira and Zapi on grounds of having plausible claims, and ILS, Altissimo and Kratos on grounds that if they're playing a gambit then it'll be easily outed before long, then that leaves VM, Flora, Butterfree and Negrek as a shortlist, which could give us as much as a 50-50 shot depending on how many scum are in the game and whether the separate-thread group are all innocent, all mafia, or a mixed bag.

Anybody have any particular hunch between VM, Flora, Butterfree and Negrek? Or does anybody have a particular hunch for someone else who I didn't list? Or does anybody have any holes to poke in my logic? (please point them out if you see them, I have no idea how much sense I'm making)
 
Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread

I'd also really love to hear from Altissimo and Kratos about this thread and what their impressions are of each other's and ILS's possible innocence/scumminess.

The fact that ILS' power is known to Kratos and myself by definition means it like, can't be a lying roleclaim unless you choose to disbelieve both ILS and myself. But uh I can corroborate that that's what ILS' power does. It's not strictly tied to the Mafia, and of course ILS told me that he was an Innocent, but honestly, I could see it going either way, being beneficial to mafia and innocents. And I wouldn't put it past MF to have it be a Mafia role, honestly, considering the intricacy and depth that we've seen out of this game alone so far. But ILS' actual conduct in the thread doesn't strike me as too out of place. Kratos too seems trustworthy - and has certainly provided a shitton of helpful information! - though then again, I've never been the best at identifying mafia on my own unless they're just shitty players, haha.

Anybody have any particular hunch between VM, Flora, Butterfree and Negrek? Or does anybody have a particular hunch for someone else who I didn't list? Or does anybody have any holes to poke in my logic? (please point them out if you see them, I have no idea how much sense I'm making)

VM's role seems... a bit ridiculous. Like, I could see it working in a bastard mafia, but not necessarily here where roles are a bit more standardized, and the fact that he claimed doesn't necessarily mean he's not Mafia. As Negrek pointed out, a role like that seems to benefit Mafia more than Innocents if there's not, like, an axe-happy vig (which, if Flora's claim is correct - again, that's an if - isn't the case, and either way the number of deaths doesn't support an axe-happy vig), and so like I could totally see it being a legit roleclaim, but one that comes from the Mafia side, or even just a false roleclaim in general. I dunno. It's just like, of all the claims that have been made, that one seems... extra crazy.

I'm not really leaning one way or another yet, just pointing out things as I see them.
 
Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread

JackPK said:
Anybody have any particular hunch between VM, Flora, Butterfree and Negrek? Or does anybody have a particular hunch for someone else who I didn't list? Or does anybody have any holes to poke in my logic? (please point them out if you see them, I have no idea how much sense I'm making)
Put Altissimo and Kratos back on the suspects list--confirming that ILS' power works as he says it does (which absolutely we should do, as you outlined) says absolutely nothing about whether or not those two are scum.

VM's role seems... a bit ridiculous. Like, I could see it working in a bastard mafia, but not necessarily here where roles are a bit more standardized, and the fact that he claimed doesn't necessarily mean he's not Mafia. As Negrek pointed out, a role like that seems to benefit Mafia more than Innocents if there's not, like, an axe-happy vig (which, if Flora's claim is correct - again, that's an if - isn't the case, and either way the number of deaths doesn't support an axe-happy vig), and so like I could totally see it being a legit roleclaim, but one that comes from the Mafia side, or even just a false roleclaim in general. I dunno. It's just like, of all the claims that have been made, that one seems... extra crazy.
In fairness I don't think it would make a legit Mafia claim, either, simply because actually having that role on the Mafia side would be so ridiculously OP. Like, there appears to be no restriction on how often you can use it and how many things you can turn off at once, so... as Mafia, you could just go "okay no voting bullshit no roleblocking no vig kills, done" and leave them off every night and depending on how roles are distributed amongst the innocent faction, that potentially shuts down a large portion of the Town's ability to fight back at night. Like, if you were Mafia, you would have to be crazy not to be using that all the time unless there was some restriction/downside. It looks as though role-switching happened during N1 at least, so if in fact someone had the power to stop that, they weren't doing so at that time.
 
Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread

In fairness I don't think it would make a legit Mafia claim, either, simply because actually having that role on the Mafia side would be so ridiculously OP. Like, there appears to be no restriction on how often you can use it and how many things you can turn off at once, so... as Mafia, you could just go "okay no voting bullshit no roleblocking no vig kills, done" and leave them off every night and depending on how roles are distributed amongst the innocent faction, that potentially shuts down a large portion of the Town's ability to fight back at night. Like, if you were Mafia, you would have to be crazy not to be using that all the time unless there was some restriction/downside. It looks as though role-switching happened during N1 at least, so if in fact someone had the power to stop that, they weren't doing so at that time.

Point taken. I hadn't really thought hard enough about how that would have worked.
 
Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread

People are talking! And I didn't even have to yell or threaten fatherly disappointment this time! :D!!!!

I'll be fair and say that it's entirely possible that ILS's role is anti-town. Superbird and I were mafia together in E4 Choice Mafia, and Superbird's additional, non-mafkill power allowed him to communicate privately with other players. In Superbird's case I don't think his contactees could speak with one another, though, so there wouldn't have been anything quicktopic-like. I don't know if the fact that ILS's power lets other players speak with one another makes it more or less likely to be town. I'd hazard a guess that it is, but I can't base that on anything solid.

And yes, ILS could be innocent and have had the bad luck to hit one or more mafia, or could be mafia who chose to recruit one or more of his partners just to make things more convincing to any innocents he may try to fool later. Both of those are more likely than ILS making such a silly gambit if all of us are communicating mafiosi. I'm not defaulting to trusting either of them, and I'm well aware that I haven't made a proper claim or done much of anything other than talk in circles, so it's perfectly reasonable to keep me on a suspect list. (I mean, I know I'm not mafia, of course, but while I'm in the business of making meaningless statements I should also mention that I'm an astronaut and own a pet unicorn, etc., etc..)

ILS is Gengar, by the way, not Ice.

That said, I have no particular opinion about ILS himself either way. We haven't really said much in that thread, tbh. Hasn't been much to talk about until today! I was recruited second, so I don't know if he and Alti spoke via PM or some other means before that; I assume so, given that Alti said he explicitly told her he was innocent and I don't see that in the quicktopic. (Doesn't make the statement meaningful, just means there was probably discussion I wasn't privy to.)

Alti... eh, I don't really know about her, either. I can't make much of an argument about whether her behavior is typical since I've only been in one game with her recently iirc. I appreciate that she's making an effort to be talkative and keep the game moving, especially outside the joking around, but that doesn't say much IMO. I would be a tad suspicious of frequently starting the abstain train, but that's really more of an issue when people are talking than when they aren't. Presumably a day with no one voting anything at all would default to no lynch anyway, and if no one's talking and it happens when MF is close to ending the day it doesn't seem like an attempt to stifle discussion or somesuch.


re: VM: I agree that that's a really bizarre power with few obvious benefits to town; the only cited examples that sound likely to be scummy IMO are the roleblocker, the framer and the vote thief, and only the roleblocker strikes me as particularly dangerous out of those. And yeah, now Negrek mentions it, it would definitely be completely broken as mafia, so it's either a truthful but baffling innocent claim or an outright lie. I'm trying to think about why someone might make up a role that potentially unhelpful as a false claim. You'd assume that scum would make a more useful/traditional fakeclaim, but this early on there's a high risk of counterclaim, so making up a role isn't a bad idea. It's possible he went too far in the other direction and made it too unusual, though. It is also kinda convenient that it's a role that mafia would see no immediate reason to kill off, so him staying alive later in the game could easily be explained as not being worth a nightkill as opposed to him being mafia and therefore not a target in the first place.

If he is innocent then it does seem like the sort of role you might as well ask for advice about before acting... so it's just a question of how willing we are to believe that such an outlandish, mostly-detrimental role would exist. I am tempted to see if I can come up with uses for it, if only because it sounds like a fun exercise, but logically there's not much point because we don't know for a fact which potentially-blockable roles are in the game to begin with.

For that matter... only two claimed roles match the examples listed (Flora/vig, Jack/redirector), and the other claimed roles (VM's, if we believe him; ILS/mason; Zapi/broadcaster; Superbird/rolecop; ???/rolethief, since someone else is running around with Superbird's power now) do not, and don't seem like they'd be switchable. In total that's seven roles, or just over half this game's players. So, another question: out of the remaining five roles, how likely is it that one or more of them match the cited examples? How likely is it that they're some other kind of role that would be affected by such a switch? I guess it's not unreasonable that the mafia might have roleblocking, vote stealing and framing in addition to their nightkill, and given that a lot of people are claiming weird roles or roles with drawbacks, I don't see why we wouldn't have a CPR doctor instead of a more reliable one. I'm starting to get tired now and can't decide whether that actually says anything or remember why I went off on this jag in the first place, but idk, maybe it'll be interesting again when I'm more awake.

The only other reason I can think of to include such a role as an innocent is to balance out a town that is otherwise overpowered, kinda like a miller in a more traditional game but with a useless/dangerous power as opposed to a misleading flip.


re: Flora: Also strange. Normally vigs with restrictions like that die if they hit a townie, not a mafioso, and there are ways to make vigkills one-shot without effectively punishing them for getting it right. I guess it's a little like a terrorist, but I'm not really sure what to make of it. It seems less overtly convenient/bizarre than VM's claim, so ultimately I'm still slightly more suspicious of him, I guess.


re: Butterfree and Negrek: No idea either way, although I did enjoy that in-character post from the other day. :D Both insightful enough, neither one claiming an utterly baffling role, but iirc neither one has claimed at all, so there's nothing to go off of there. Negrek's currently being more helpful solely considering the number of posts, whereas Butterfree has only posted twice so far, but there are plenty of other people who fit those descriptions/similar descriptions at this point.


BUT YES I am tired and still have stuff to do if I actually want to be able to use my bed tonight and there have already been several additional posts while I typed this so I'm just going to post this for now and be done with it. Everyone keep talking, it's great :D
 
Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread

Actually, I think if VM's role were given to Mafia and, rather than having the restriction that it only affected town, instead affected all roles, it would actually be really cool.

Like, imagine you have three Mafia players, one with a votestealing ability, one with a roleblocking ability, and one with VM's ability (and all three can kill, of course). So yes, you could turn off kills and not have to worry about getting vigged, if the town had a fairly large number of vigs and/or a very active one... but until you turn it back on and expose yourself to getting killed, you can't kill anybody else. Likewise, you could turn off role fuckery, which would make your kills more likely to actually work/hit the correct target, but you'd then lose your own roleblocking ability and potentially run into issues with doctors or other powerful roles you'd want to shut down. Also, considering how Town plans to verify roles can involve people claiming some kind of action manipulation and then using it on a specific person, you could fuck with the town so hard but, at the same time, doing so would limit your own ability to advance. I think there'd be some real interesting cost/benefit balancing the Mafia would have to do, although overall I think it would probably still be a little overpowered as a role with no usage limits.

Anyway, this has absolutely no bearing on VM's innocence or the veracity of his roleclaim or this game in general, really; I just thought it was cool.

Negrek: No idea either way, although I did enjoy that in-character post from the other day.
Glad you liked it! tbh I was pretty pumped to RP it up at the start of this game, but nobody else seems interested, and it makes it really hard to write actual strategy posts. I am totally down for writing more goofy IC posts (or partially IC, given the need to strategize) if other people are, though.

it's 4am maybe i should sleep
 
Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread

This state of affairs is... deplorable. Even though many of the criminals here claim to be "reformed", the human spirit is so weak and incomplete that these lowlifes would resort to killing each other. And for what? What could they possibly stand to gain from this? Nothing, if you think logically about it. They are still prisoners here like everyone else, and their futile bloodletting is nothing but a pitiful byproduct of the weak human heart. Had my goals of creating a new world succeeded, I could have ended such meaningless strife once and for all, but alas, my goal was never realized.

This Lovrina of Cipher, or "Flora" as some inmates call her... although her role sounds even worse then mine (always results in an innocent death?) I feel she may be telling the truth. If so, the warden is a More Fiendish individual than I originally thought. This "Altissimo", on the other hand... hasn't been very helpful at all. She, like the weak incomplete human that she is, is letting her emotions get in the way of rational, unbiased thought and making assumptions about other players without contributing any useful information of her own. It is true that she has been "leading the abstain train" as the fools often say, so I remain wary of her intentions.

It's reasonably difficult to assume anyone innocent in this situation, though aside from myself, whom I know to be innocent, I feel somewhat confident that JackPK and Zapi can be trusted. Just because someone is being "helpful" and instigating discussion isn't really an indication that they are innocent, so Kratos and Negrek should still be regarded as suspects until proven innocent. ILS' role could indeed be town-misaligned, and Nira and Butterfree haven't really given me enough reason to assume them innocent, either. That's my take on the situation. The truth of the situation will obviously take a bit more digging to get to, but nevertheless we need to pick off somebody before tonight if we want to stand any chance at ending the strife that has plagued this institution.
 
Back
Top Bottom