Morality of Training Pokemon

[RedRum]

Do you remember in the Celebi film, the dark Ball demonstration by the hunter. The moment Tyranitar and then later Celebi were captured in it, they were evil. I think any standard pokeball works in the same way, the pokemon is just then instantly tamed.

Pokemon are like any real wild animal, it's all about survival and nothing else. Take Koko the gorilla, anyone heard of her. She's famous for being able to speak sign language, she knows well over one hundred signs I believe. Apes have always been regarded as the smartest animals there are next to people, but Koko couldn't know all these signs without having been taught. I have also seen Chimps and Orangutans who can actually read and solve math problems but again these are all capabilities not instincts, an ape may be capable of learning to read or sign but could never without being taught.

This applies to even humans, does anyone here play an instrument? Well could you have without being taught(self taught included)? I doubt it.

Pokemon I suspect work the same way, they are of course capable of skillful and strategical battle but need to be taught and trained. It makes perfect sense.

[Enkoe]

Well I've always puzzled over the subject.

I haven't since Pokemon 4 Ever but I have been told there are Dark Balls there, so Amber I think you're right, that if a Pokemon is caught in a Poke Ball they are instantly tamed and are "made" or "forced" to obey the trainer's commands. Usually a legendary is "forced" to obey them when captured in a Poke Ball, as a legendary has a more smarter and developed mind than your average Bidoof (**** BIDOOF!) so yeah. But if you trade a Pokemon, they don't really obey you unless you have a badge, so I think a badge is a sort of "outsider" Pokemon tame-device, apart from being keys to use HMs.

[Butterfree]

Do you remember in the Celebi film, the dark Ball demonstration by the hunter. The moment Tyranitar and then later Celebi were captured in it, they were evil. I think any standard pokeball works in the same way, the pokemon is just then instantly tamed.

But that doesn't make any sense. Why would anyone make a big deal about Dark Balls if normal Pokéballs were exactly the same thing? The whole point of Dark Balls is that balls that force Pokémon to blindly obey are bad.

Further, we see a very, very clear difference between the behavior of Pokémon under actual Pokéball-induced mind-control as seen in the movie and the behavior of ordinary Pokémon who have been caught in ordinary Pokéballs. Dark Ball Celebi was stiff, soulless and blindly obedient; normal Pokémon are far from it. We see Pokémon disobeying ordinary trainers frequently, but it's always portrayed as a casual, lazy, disrespectful disobedience as opposed to the pure despair of Celebi shaking off the influence of the Dark Ball. Normal Pokéballs are not mind-control devices; this has been made quite plain.

[Superbird]

Originally Posted by Butterfree

Why would anyone make a big deal about Dark Balls if normal Pokéballs were exactly the same thing?

Dark balls, in addition to mind-controlling the subject, also substantially increase the subject's power. In my opinion, Pokéballs don't force a pokémon to obey, but they do capture the pokémon. A pokémon in a Pokéball has control of its actions, but the pokéball makes it more docile and willing to obey its trainer.

As for traded pokémon, they were already connected to their previous owner, and feel like their new trainer isn't worthy enough to control them. The amount of badges a trainer has shows the traded pokémon that the trainer is strong, and is indeed worthy enough to harness the pokémon's abilities. This is why the more badges one has, the more pokémon obey.

[RedRum]

Originally Posted by Butterfree

But that doesn't make any sense. Why would anyone make a big deal about Dark Balls if normal Pokéballs were exactly the same thing? The whole point of Dark Balls is that balls that force Pokémon to blindly obey are bad.

Further, we see a very, very clear difference between the behavior of Pokémon under actual Pokéball-induced mind-control as seen in the movie and the behavior of ordinary Pokémon who have been caught in ordinary Pokéballs. Dark Ball Celebi was stiff, soulless and blindly obedient; normal Pokémon are far from it. We see Pokémon disobeying ordinary trainers frequently, but it's always portrayed as a casual, lazy, disrespectful disobedience as opposed to the pure despair of Celebi shaking off the influence of the Dark Ball. Normal Pokéballs are not mind-control devices; this has been made quite plain.

I suppose you make a good point, but I did not mean to imply that it would be exactly like the dark ball, I used it simply because it is the clearest example there has ever been of a pokeballs effect on a pokemon.

[Butterfree]

But the whole point of the Dark Ball is that it is not an example; it's highly atypical exactly because it has that effect on the Pokémon. It's like claiming all humans have mustaches because Nietzsche had one, and then saying you mentioned him because he's the clearest example. Well, of course he is the clearest example, but that's exactly why he is not an example of normal people's mustachiness at all. The Dark Ball proves nothing about the effect that other Pokéballs have on Pokémon.

Dark balls, in addition to mind-controlling the subject, also substantially increase the subject's power.

Sure, but that's not relevant; increasing their power was not the reason the Dark Ball was bad.

In my opinion, Pokéballs don't force a pokémon to obey, but they do capture the pokémon. A pokémon in a Pokéball has control of its actions, but the pokéball makes it more docile and willing to obey its trainer.

See, what I don't get is why you prefer to insert some element of dubious consent into this where it's not directly indicated by canon and not necessary to make sense of it.

[RedRum]

My apologies then for an incorrect comparison.

[Jirachu]

Pokemon training IS NOT mean. Pokemon like battling, and they don't get seriously hurt by it. They have bodies built to take attacks from each other and grow in power from the experiences of winning.

Pokemon bond with their trainers more and more as they win too.

It can be hard for some people to grasp i'm sure plus fights in general in real life well yeah you can get hurt in them although theres fighting sports that like pokemon people don't seem to get injered in them.

Yeah....maybe one needs to understand sports in general just a little to understand that pokemon battles are harmless.

Though I wasn't THAT exposed to sports stuff, I think i've picked up what pokemon's about well on my own with pokemon.

Maybe theres flaws in this post, i duno, but pokemon seem happy just getting stronger from facing and interacting with one another xD