[B/W] An idea...

Chief Zackrai · Mar 19, 2011

I was thinking about how sandstorm stat passed Cradily is awesome, So I decided to generate a sandstorm team.

Adamant/Jolly, Evs in Attack and Speed, Sand Stream @ Life Orb
Slack Off
Earthquake
Stealth Rock
Roar/Crunch

I'm not too sure I want to use roar here, mainly because I think it's likely I'll pretty much never use it. I decided I liked it more than Tyranitar because he can heal.

Adamant, Evs in Attack and HP or Speed, Sand Veil @Expert Belt
Stone Edge
X-Scissor
Rock Polish/Swords Dance
Earthquake

Couldn't really decide between Rock Polish or Swords Dance here; I am leaning more towards Swords Dance however, because I don't have speed problems with him.

Jolly, Evs in HP and Speed, Speed boost @ Focus Sash
Baton Pass
Swords Dance
Substitute
X-Scissor

A stat passer, mostly for Cradily initially. X-Scissor because of the chance I'll need to attack with this guy. Couls also possibly run Roost for X-Scissor.

Jolly, Evs in Attack and Speed, Suction cups @Lefties
Earthquake
Stone Edge
Seed Bomb
Recover

Destructive Cradily is destructive. Suction Cups because he is physical.

Timid, Evs in Speed and Sp. Attack, Shell Armor @Smooth Rock
Ice Beam
Surf
Sandstorm
Earth Power

Another Sandstorm user, mainly for Ice Beam (oh yeah and special attacking).

Adamant, Evs in Hp and Attack, Solid Rock @
Flame Charge
Earthquake
Explosion
Yawn

I'm not really sure where I'm going with this. ... Crap! It's another physical attacker! Argh.

Tell me thoughts/ crit on any of this.

Adriane · Mar 19, 2011

Re: An idea...

Chief Zackrai said:
I was thinking about how sandstorm stat passed Cradily is awesome, So I decided to generate a sandstorm team.

Jolly, Evs in HP and Speed, Speed boost @Something...
Baton Pass
Swords Dance
Substitute
X-Scissor

A stat passer, mostly for Cradily. X-Scissor because of the chance I'll need to attack with this guy.

Jolly, Evs in Hp and Speed, Speed Boost @Something...
Baton Pass
Swords Dance
Substitute
Roost

Yes, another stat passer. This guy is for more serious stat passing, mostly to Marowak.

Two Ninjask is impractical as Species Clause is a generally assumed rule. At any rate, both are ruined by priority and potentially your own weather. Roost in particular is a puzzling pick.

Jolly, Evs in Attack and Speed, Suction cups @Lefties, or Smooth Rock
Earthquake
Stone Edge
Sandstorm
Recover

I seriously laughed when I thought of this. First, Ninjask 1 or 2 stat passes to him, then he uses Sandstorm and rapes. Recover of one of them classic "STFU" late game.

Please refrain from making rape references. It's a serious issue that does not need to be made light of.

Decent coverage, but a little inflexible and Fighting attacks will make you run away, particularly Mach Punch.

Adamant, Evs in Attack and HP, Rock Head @Thick Club
Double-Edge
Fire Punch
ThunderPunch
Brick Break

Hehehe... Marowak.

I guess. Without Substitute, it'll fall to most things it can't OHKO, and 75 BP moves are kind of weak. What is Brick Break doing there? At the very least, drop it for Earthquake.

Adamant, Evs in Attack and HP or Speed, Sand Veil @Expert Belt
Poison Jab/Baton Pass
X-Scissor/Rock Polish
Stealth Rock/Swords Dance
Earthquake

Really random coverage here, but eh. Alternate moves are for if I were to use him as a stat passer instead of a second Ninjask (so I could add a Clefabble to this mess!), but that might be dumb.

Expert Belt is a very weird item choice. Why not lead with Gliscor? If you want to attack with Gliscor, it needs Roost. Poison Jab and X-Scissor are both really random, but I guess you have Rock elsewhere. Still, Poison Jab offers you nothing X-Scissor doesn't.

Brave, EVs in Attack and Speed or HP, Battle Armor @Rocky Helmet
Aqua Jet
Night Slash
Ice Beam
Superpower

Kabutops is Kabutops?

... I'm at a loss. Why would you have a -speed nature, and why would you use Ice Beam off 65 SpA with no investment? Superpower is counterproductive without Swords Dance. Aqua Jet doesn't really count as main STAB. Night Slash is too weak without STAB. And where do you plan on getting a Rocky Helmet in HGSS?

Tell me thoughts/ crit on any of this.

Where is Tyranitar/Hippowdon?

Chief Zackrai · Mar 19, 2011

Re: An idea...

Well, firstly, crap about rocky helmet, I forgot what version I was doing.

About Ninjasks: That's what I thought about them at first, too, which is why I left the alternative moveset for Gliscor over there. (because I really want to have two stat passers for some reason) But I like that idea, because think of it. You can (in absolute best case scenarios) effectively only use substitute ~~four~~ three times, right (which is also why the second one knows roost, for recovery, and continuous substitution)? That means three stat passes, right? (remember, assuming best case scenario) Perhaps I should pick pokemon with more Speed, I guess.

About Cradily: I apologize about the rape thing, I was under the impression it was an one of those weird gaming terms (I didn't understand why they would say that either, so). And I kind of thought... oh wait Mach Punch is priority, never mind.

For Marowak: Actually, I have a Marowak for my Trick Room team, and he does pretty well at one-hitting things with Fire Punch (when I'm using it-more often than not with him it's Earthquake, Stone Edge, or Double Edge) And even still, I'd be passing Speed and Attack to it, making his already doubled Attack greater, and an increase in Speed, so.

At Gliscor: Monkeys. I usually put the Expert Belt on him because I usually do lead with him. I kinda figured Poison Jab and X-scissor was kind of redundant, too. And actually, the only thing different about the moveset I put there from his usual set is that Poison Jab instead of Stone Edge.

For Kabutops: The only reason he knows Ice Beam is because I needed an Ice attack somewhere and he was the only one I found. -Speed nature because I was going to go with Adamant, but I figured "Oh crap I shouldn't lower Sp. Attack if I'm going to run Ice Beam, but now that I think about it Omastar would be more productive here.

And I don't use Tyranitar for one main reason: Sure awesome attack, but look at his types. Rock/Dark. If you think fighting will be a problem for Cradily, this guy wants to talk with you.

And Hippowdon I'm looking at right now and he's not bad per say, But I'm not entirely sure I want him.

1. Luftballon · Mar 19, 2011

Re: An idea...

how do you intend to run a sand team without sand stream?

incidentally, cradily doesn't need a speed-boosting nature if you're just going to pass speed from ninjask; but if you insist, just leave it at 198, so that +2 outspeeds 130+ and +3 basically outspeeds everything other than a boosted ninjask. without a speed-boosting nature, since 130s running neutral natures just doesn't really happen, go 170 to outspeed neutral base 120, or if you're not too concerned about those, either, the first thing that poses a significant threat to cradily, infernape, is guaranteed outspeed at 174.

of course, if you're confident in your ability to get +3 speed, you can go as low as 167 and still outspeed the entire metagame sans ninjask. nothing outspeeds a boosted ninjask, ofc. a mere 139 outspeeds infernape.

boss · Mar 31, 2011

Re: An idea...

Chief Zackrai said:
Modest/Timid, Evs in Sp. Attack and HP, Magic Guard @ Life Orb
Focus Blast
Shadow Ball
Grass Knot
Thunderbolt

i definitely understand why you need another special attacker, but i don't think i've ever heard of clefable with a full arsenal.

no wish or lightscreen? not even toxic? it's certainly not the fastest pokemon around; i can't really see clefable 2koing without taking a lot of damage itself.

1. Luftballon · Mar 31, 2011

Re: An idea...

have you ever seen belly drum life orb double-edge clefable? it is kind of a wrecking ~~ball~~blob.

that said, this is not one.

Torronto · Apr 8, 2011

Re: An idea...

Before we start, this should hopefully ring a bell.

Either that or Hippo, as Sand Stream gives you an automatic and unlimited (number of turns) sandstorm, without taking up a moveslot.

Chief Zackrai said:
I was thinking about how sandstorm stat passed Cradily is awesome, So I decided to generate a sandstorm team.

Adamant, Evs in Attack and HP or Speed, Sand Veil @Expert Belt
Stone Edge
X-Scissor
Stealth Rock
Earthquake

Gliscor lead is awesome? I love using him for this purpose can generally one-hit just about any pokemon thrown at him in the beginning.

Switch the Pink puff for Gliscor and put a Sand Streamer as your lead, otherwise, decent mon you have there. As for the EVs, I'd go for Speed, since it's an attacking variant, etc. Scor also wants leftovers, or an orb to fling, as it lacks roost.

Jolly, Evs in HP and Speed, Speed boost @Something...
Baton Pass
Swords Dance
Substitute
X-Scissor

A stat passer, mostly for Cradily initially. X-Scissor because of the chance I'll need to attack with this guy.

True, he's a great passer, but his sash will be broken in sand, and the sash is one of the major factors, contributing to its usefulness in the metagame.

Jolly, Evs in Attack and Speed, Suction cups @Lefties, or Smooth Rock
Earthquake
Stone Edge
Sandstorm
Recover

I seriously laughed when I thought of this. First, Ninjask 1 or 2 stat passes to him, then he uses Sandstorm and just destroys stuff. Recover of one of them classic "STFU" late game.

Seed Bomb>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sandstorm

Adamant, Evs in Attack and HP, Rock Head @Thick Club
Double-Edge
Fire Punch
Earthquake
Brick Break

Hehehe... Marowak.

Switch it with an Ice resist, as your team needs one.

Timid, Evs in Speed and Sp. Attack, Shell Armor @Something...
Ice Beam
Surf
Sandstorm
Earth Power

Another Sandstorm user, mainly for Ice Beam.

Seems reasonable enough, since it's nice to have a diverse special attacker, and you have a few mons that can take hits from grass attacks.

Modest/Timid, Evs in Sp. Attack and HP, Magic Guard @ Life Orb
Focus Blast
Shadow Ball
Grass Knot
Thunderbolt

One of the pokemon I wanted to go with initially, I only have one question: Does Magic Guard block Weather Damage? Kind of randmo moves, but it might work.

Yes it does block weather damage, but as I said earlier, switch Scor with Tar and Clef with Scor.

Tell me thoughts/ crit on any of this.

Chief Zackrai · Apr 9, 2011

Re: An idea...

Torronto: I have no problem with most of that. Only like two.

1. ~~Never. Ever. Call Gliscor a "Pink Puff". With that set, he one-hits just about anything thrown at him, and to add this is after he takes a hit from starting with SR.~~ forget about this.

2. I know about sand stream, I just have a problem with Tyranitar, and kind of with Hippowdon. Tyranitar because of its completely random (if you ask me) 4x weakness to fighting (really, Gamfreak, you couldn't have made it Rock/Ground or Rock/something else?) And Hippowdon has kind of a shallow movepool (kind of. It's better than some, but it's still kind of bad) and I mean I could Edgequake/rest/crunch or superpower, with Hippowdon, but, eh.

Now for questions.

1. Doesn't Omastar resist ice, inherently because of being a water-type? Unless you meant a physical attacker, which I would get. Maybe I could use Camperupt, or something. ...Perhaps I need to switch versions.[/tangent]

2. What sash on Ninjask? I see no sash on Ninjask.

... give me some time to rethink this, it might end up a Black and White team.

JackPK · Apr 9, 2011

Re: An idea...

Chief Zackrai said:
1. Doesn't Omastar resist ice, inherently because of being a water-type?

~~Nope, because it's dual-typed. Rock's weak to Ice, so Ice hits neutral on Omastar.~~

EDIT: That'll teach me to answer questions before actually looking the answers up. You're right, Omastar resists Ice. Ice hits x1 on Rock and x0.5 on Water.

Torronto · Apr 9, 2011

Re: An idea...

Chief Zackrai said:
Torronto: I have no problem with most of that. Only like two.

1. ~~Never. Ever. Call Gliscor a "Pink Puff". With that set, he one-hits just about anything thrown at him, and to add this is after he takes a hit from starting with SR.~~ forget about this.

2. I know about sand stream, I just have a problem with Tyranitar, and kind of with Hippowdon. Tyranitar because of its completely random (if you ask me) 4x weakness to fighting (really, Gamfreak, you couldn't have made it Rock/Ground or Rock/something else?) And Hippowdon has kind of a shallow movepool (kind of. It's better than some, but it's still kind of bad) and I mean I could Edgequake/rest/crunch or superpower, with Hippowdon, but, eh.

Now for questions.

1. Doesn't Omastar resist ice, inherently because of being a water-type? Unless you meant a physical attacker, which I would get. Maybe I could use Camperupt, or something. ...Perhaps I need to switch versions.[/tangent]

2. What sash on Ninjask? I see no sash on Ninjask.

... give me some time to rethink this, it might end up a Black and White team.

I called Clefairy a pink puff, not Gliscor. Another thing, is that Pokemon don't need all attacking moves to be useful. Hippo runs EQ, Stealth Rock, Slack Off and Roar, and he runs them damn well.

I guess Omastar is good for resisting ice, to an extent, it does lack good defensive typing, though.

And most Ninjask are sashed, since they are so frail.

Chief Zackrai · Apr 10, 2011

Re: An idea...

Done, I think.

1. Luftballon · Apr 10, 2011

cradily is probably better off with storm drain in this case anyway, if only for the immunity to water.

War & Thunder · Apr 10, 2011

Firstly, just because this is a sandstorm team doesnt mean everything has to be immune to sandstorm. That usually makes it weak to common types like water and fighting and yeah, you don't want that at all. So here are a few things I noticed.

That gliscor set is just out of wack. I suggest you make it

Gliscor @Life Orb
Trait: Hyper Cutter
Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SAtk)
Evs: 252 Atk / 216 Spe / 40 HP
- Swords Dance
- Roost
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge / Night Slash

Your Hippowdon set should be

Hippowdon@Leftovers
Trait: Sandstream
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
Evs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 SpD
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Slack Off
- Ice Fang / Roar / Toxic / Stone Edge

If you want an offensive Sandstorm lead, you really ought to be using Tyranitar.

Ninjask seems out of place, you lack a rapid spinner so if stealth rock is up it really becomes useless. If you want to use it, I suggest you replace it as your lead and use your weather starter in another spot.

Cradily should only be using curse. It lacks reliable speed even with speed boosts passed to it, and its coverage is awful. You really want a sleep talker as even with one move, you have a really easy time of causing damage as you curse up.

Cradily @Leftovers
Trait: Suction Cups
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
Evs: 252 HP / 168 SDef / 88 Attack
- Curse
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Seed Bomb / Rock Slide

Marowak is outclassed by Mamoswine really. While it may be weaker as Marowak has thick club, Marowak is really slow and isn't the bulkiest fellow around so if they switch in anything faster with a super effective move, say Surf, Ice Beam, or Leaf Storm, its finished. I really recommend a steel type here, you honestly have a large weakness to anything with Outrage or Draco Meteor, as they can come in and since you have no resists, just start spamming those moves.

Omastar is outclassed by just about every water type in OU at doing its job. I suggest you pick another and see how it works.

Clefable has no valid use in OU, you really need a ghost so fighting types don't come in and just start spamming on you. I suggest Sub Split Gengar or Rotom H since you are Pretty Scizor weak too.

Torronto · Apr 10, 2011

I think that Cradily is better off as an Excadrill, which would do much more damage in sand, without any boosts.

surskitty · Apr 10, 2011

Syndrome said:
Rotom H since you are Pretty Scizor weak too.

I highly doubt an electric/fire type would help with the fighting weakness.

War & Thunder · Apr 10, 2011

I probably worded that incorrectly, I was pretty rushed while rating this.

I didn't say it helps for fighting types. It helps for Scizor.

Chief Zackrai · Apr 10, 2011

Tailsy said:
I highly doubt an electric/fire type would help with the fighting weakness.

I thought that when Rotom was in a different forme he retains his Original tpying. I might be misguided here, but isn't Rotm an Uber, also?

Syndrome said:
Firstly, just because this is a sandstorm team doesnt mean everything has to be immune to sandstorm. That usually makes it weak to common types like water and fighting and yeah, you don't want that at all. So here are a few things I noticed.

Yeah, well, that seems to be my specialty. ~~I wasn't trying to~~ Actually I was trying to, but I figured it would be more practical, if I didn't have to think about that extra bit of damage for every pokemon that isn't. :/

That gliscor set is just out of wack. I suggest you make it

Gliscor @Life Orb
Trait: Hyper Cutter
Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SAtk)
Evs: 252 Atk / 216 Spe / 40 HP
- Swords Dance
- Roost
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge / Night Slash

Normally I would have Hyper Cutter, too, but since it's a sandstorm team, I feel like Sand Veil would be more useful, as there is likely to be a sandstorm going on. But.

Honestly, I've tried running Gliscor with Roost. Wasn't entirely impressed. First, unless an Ice-type is thrown out, or a pokemon that knows an Ice-type move, he's solid enough no to need it.

Your Hippowdon set should be

Hippowdon@Leftovers
Trait: Sandstream
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
Evs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 SpD
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Slack Off
- Ice Fang / Roar / Toxic / Stone Edge

If you want an offensive Sandstorm lead, you really ought to be using Tyranitar.

Honestly, I've tried Tyranitar before, and I found he is horrendously frail (even when it was under Trick Room and faster {i.e. slower than} than my opponent). Anything with Mach Punch, or even Brick Break can run right up to him and be like "Good Game, lol", Especially becuse he isn't incredibly fast (Hippowdon says "hi", I know). And I think Hippowdon is supposed to be a wall more than a brawler, which is why I was thinking about running Crunch as well, because practically, with just Earthquake, I get about ten attacks before I go either healing every turn or using Sr every turn, while I wait for him to be eliminated (which I suppose isn't necessarily a such bad thing, but).

Ninjask seems out of place, you lack a rapid spinner so if stealth rock is up it really becomes useless. If you want to use it, I suggest you replace it as your lead and use your weather starter in another spot.

I seriously thought about doing this at first, too. Not really sure why I don't at this point.

Cradily should only be using curse. It lacks reliable speed even with speed boosts passed to it, and its coverage is awful. You really want a sleep talker as even with one move, you have a really easy time of causing damage as you curse up.

but...but...but... what sresservoir said.

Cradily @Leftovers
Trait: Suction Cups
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
Evs: 252 HP / 168 SDef / 88 Attack
- Curse
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Seed Bomb / Rock Slide

If I want to outspeed things with it, why would I reduce my Cradily's speed? Sure Curse get additional Attack and Defense, but at the cost of speed, one of the major stats of Competitive Battling.

Marowak is outclassed by Mamoswine really. While it may be weaker as Marowak has thick club, Marowak is really slow and isnt the bulkiest fellpw around so if they switch in anything faster with a super effective move, say Surf, Ice Beam, or Leaf Storm, its finished. I really recommend a steel type here, you honestly have a large weakness to anything with Outrage or Draco Meteor, as they can come in and since you have no resists, just start spamming those moves.

Marrowak isn't even on the team anymore! And I also intended to pass speed to him, sorry if you missed that bit.

Omastar is outclassed by just about every water type in OU at doing its job. I suggest you pick another and see how it works.

Omastar has the most Sp. Attack of any non-uber water type pokemon, and this includes Vaporeon and Gorebyss. I don't mind so much that Omastar is outsped by just about all of them, becuase I have plans for timid with Speed Evs. I am at this point also considering putting some into Sp. def or Hp.

Clefable has no valid use in OU, you really need a ghost so fighting types dont come in and just start spamming on you. I suggest Sub Spli Gengar or Rotom H since you are Pretty Scizor weak too.

Again, why are you talking about pokemon I have decided to scratch from the team? And besides, Camerupt eats Scizors for Breakfast.

JackPK · Apr 10, 2011

Chief Zackrai said:
I thought that when Rotom was in a different forme he retains his Original tpying. I might be misguided here, but isn't Rotm an Uber, also?

In Gen 4 Rotom keeps the Electric/Ghost typing always. But Gen 5 changed it so that he loses the Ghost type in exchange for the type of the move he gains.

Dunno about his tier placement.

Superbird · Apr 10, 2011

If I remember correctly, Rotom is OU.

Torronto · Apr 10, 2011

Chief Zackrai said:
I thought that when Rotom was in a different forme he retains his Original tpying. I might be misguided here, but isn't Rotm an Uber, also?

Nope, it's OU, and Rotom has secondary typing (his first being electric) depending on what form it takes on.

Yeah, well, that seems to be my specialty. ~~I wasn't trying to~~ Actually I was trying to, but I figured it would be more practical, if I didn't have to think about that extra bit of damage for every pokemon that isn't. :/

Sandstorm damage isn't a huge deal, tbqh.

Normally I would have Hyper Cutter, too, but since it's a sandstorm team, I feel like Sand Veil would be more useful, as there is likely to be a sandstorm going on. But.

Sand Veil is at risk of being banned, Poison Heal is the best option, when it's released, of course.

Honestly, I've tried running Gliscor with Roost. Wasn't entirely impressed. First, unless an Ice-type is thrown out, or a pokemon that knows an Ice-type move, he's solid enough no to need it.

If an Ice Type comes in, you switch.

Honestly, I've tried Tyranitar before, and I found he is horrendously frail (even when it was under Trick Room and faster {i.e. slower than} than my opponent). Anything with Mach Punch, or even Brick Break can run right up to him and be like "Good Game, lol", Especially becuse he isn't incredibly fast (Hippowdon says "hi", I know). And I think Hippowdon is supposed to be a wall more than a brawler, which is why I was thinking about running Crunch as well, because practically, with just Earthquake, I get about ten attacks before I go either healing every turn or using Sr every turn, while I wait for him to be eliminated (which I suppose isn't necessarily a such bad thing, but).

You only need to use Stealth Rock once, it will fail when used multiple times. T-Tar isn't frail at all, it's quite bulky, although I'm wondering why you'd leave it in against something with brick break or mach punch, even though T-Tar can survive an unboosted/non-technician Mach Punch.

I seriously thought about doing this at first, too. Not really sure why I don't at this point.

Ditch Ninjask.

but...but...but... what sresservoir said.

If I want to outspeed things with it, why would I reduce my Cradily's speed? Sure Curse get additional Attack and Defense, but at the cost of speed, one of the major stats of Competitive Battling.

Ditch Cradily too, for something that can abuse sand without boosts, like Excadrill.

Marrowak isn't even on the team anymore! And I also intended to pass speed to him, sorry if you missed that bit.

Omastar has the most Sp. Attack of any non-uber water type pokemon, and this includes Vaporeon and Gorebyss. I don't mind so much that Omastar is outsped by just about all of them, becuase I have plans for timid with Speed Evs. I am at this point also considering putting some into Sp. def or Hp.

Omastar is weak to 2 of the most common attack types in the metagame.

Again, why are you talking about pokemon I have decided to scratch from the team? And besides, Camerupt eats Scizors for Breakfast.

Camerupt is sort of bad, though, it loses to a lot. I suggest using Rotom-H or Heatran instead.

[B/W] An idea...

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