How AU can you go?

Okay, my first post (probably already hidden from most, thank goodness) was not really glorious, so let's try again.

How Alternate universe are you ready to go in Pokemon fanfiction? I found Butterfree's old writing guide, and there she had said that AU is generally disliked. I have imagined an AU-pokemon universe, and I would like to write about it some day... So, I'd like your opinions.

In mildest AU is just having a small "what if" situation:
What if Ash had a clefairy instead of a pikachu?
What if team rocket didn't want pikachu at all?

However, AU-definition (which Butterfree's guide didn't quite encompass to it's full potential, we'll see if she includes it on the new one. :P Im still thinking that's the thing she should finish first! Curse you democracy...) includes also the drastic changes to the world:
What if pokemon world didn't have humans in it?
What if the pokemon were Sci-fi? (Spacetraveling etc)

-What if the pokemon world had gijinka, too? What if the pokemon weren't caught, but the gijinka were?
And that's my not-so-epic premise.

***TL;DR, go to the end if you wish ;D ( I was originally expecting A LOT longer text, honestly)***

In my idea the humans and pokemon had a bitter war in the ancient past, rousing the anger of ancient spirits (what, were you expecting gods?) who then struck a portion of the humans with the spirits of dead pokemon, thus creating half-human half-pokemon creatures known as Gijinka.
These gijinka would have three forms- Pokemon, human and the inbetween, gijinka.
If a gijinka so wished, it could transform into a pokemon (the pokemon form would be closer to the gijinka's size, for example while a pikachu is 40 cm tall, a gijinka in pikachu's form would be 1 meter tall.) but only when they are wearing the clothes specific to the gijinka.
(They are born in a skin-tight bodysuit which changes into their specific clothing upon "hatching" at the age of seven years. It also changes upon evolution, which is set at the same age as they evolve in game. For example, when charmander evolves into charmeleon at the level of 16, a charmander gijinka would 'evolve' at the age of 16.) If the gijinka wouldn't have this outfit on, they would lose all the features connecting them to the pokemon (for example, a charizard gijinka would lose it's wings and tail + horns if he normally had those features.). They would retain their hair, eye and skin color though.

And because I love it so much, the humans would treat the pokemon (who wouldn't be as smart as in the anime) as pets, and gijinka as slaves. (In the sense of roman slavery, that the slave could get wealthy and buy themselves free.)
Some would pit their enslaved gijinka in a gladiator match against other gijinka, calling themselves 'trainers.' Usually these trainers group under a large company, which provides them with medical help, training and other services for free. The trainers are paid for battles, depending on how much was bet on them. (The battles have a robust betting business, and the trainers get a pay depending on how much was bet on them. The popular and strong gijinka are of course bet on more often than the weaker ones.)
The humans would also have pokeballs, but they would be the most drastic means of control over gijinka. Usually only escaped and criminal gijinka would be caught with pokeballs.
***End***

So, now I ask. Would you like to read such AU-stories, only having to do very minorly with the universe of Pokemon? (featuring pokemon species, using the same terminology for similar aspects etc.)
I would gladly make it an original story, but Im in a tight spot; I want to use pokemon, but i don't really want to use most of the features and characters present in the canon universe. : P

Feel free to include your own AU-story premises. : D I'd love to know about your ideas!


And sorry about anything I've done wrong- I just couldn't find anything precisely on the subject.

It'd be the whole "Pokémon-human hybrids" thing that would keep me from reading, not the slight AU-ness. I just really dislike the concept of Pokémon-human hybrids, especially if they're set up as a "normal" part of the setting instead of some freak mutation that almost never happens. Though the more mystical explanation of them does work a lot better than the generic "Team Rocket experiment" or something along those lines.

Pokémon is a series that seems like it'd work really well for AUs, since the only thing that really sets the Pokémon world apart from ours is the Pokémon themselves--there really aren't any "main characters" of the series as a whole (talking about the games here), so as long as the Pokémon species themselves are still around, it really can't be "too AU." Look at the Mystery Dungeon series for a good example of that.

I usually don't mind AUs as long as they're not really, really bad ideas... like the "everyone's in high school" type of stories (especially annoying when characters from a very wide age range are "scrunched" into their teenage years just to fit them in) and junk like that. So a story where Pokémon battles are more like gladiator combat, with betting and a sort of 'underground' element, might be something I'd consider reading... if not for the hybrids.

Of course, knowing the popularity of the furry/anthro/hybrid/etc. thing on this forum, you'll probably get at least a few responses that are the exact opposite of mine--"like the idea, but hate AUs."

Yeah, I think that's the main problem with my story. I hope there is a small niche of people who would like a premise like that...
I find the gijinka a better way to emphasize on the slavery than pokemon who just can speak human language/people who understand human language. (I would prefer the anime to have the pokemon be more animalistic anyway.)

Ack sorry if I seem to be defending my idea. D:

I think AU:s should go really far away from the original world, not just changing one idea. For example, I would much rather read an AU-story where the setting was in realistic medieval society, than an AU with just the premise of "What if Ash and Brock were girls and Misty was a male?"

Medieval Pokémon technically wouldn't even have to be AU, since we've never seen the Pokémon-world version of Europe (or anywhere outside of Japan, really) or anything from that time period in the Pokémon world's past. For a story like that, you could just say "this is what medieval England/(insert some other country here) was like in the Pokémon world."

But yeah, the "nothing different except everyone's gender" stories belong in the same junk bin with the high-school stories and things like that. To be called "AU" there should be a pretty significant difference in the universe itself, or a diverging plot somewhere... and Pokémon doesn't exactly have a lot of plot--I guess there could be a "what if Team Rocket/Aqua/Magma/Galactic's plan worked?" AU, but beyond that there's not a whole to go on as far as what-if plots.

Hmm. Maybe the "medieval pokemon world" and others in the same streak could be classified under the name of "Unconfirmed" or UC for short. :3 I would love to read someone's take on Finland in the pokemon world, too. (I myself can't imagine what it would be like... A lot of stantler, mightyena and ursaring perhaps)
Now that I think of it, I haven't really seen many stories which would take place outside the canon world, unless of course in an imaginary island somewhere. They also feature fakemon, something I cringe at too. (I guess it's the same as you feel about furry/gijinka pokemon. : D)

I'm actually planning on writing a story where Pokemon battling is illegal.

In the story, the main character is caught with a Bulbasaur and is sentenced to death row. There, he meets Oak, who gives him his remaining starters and tells him of a conspiracy to destroy the Pokemon universe.

And Giovanni is the ruler of the world.

As far as I'm concerned, as long as it has Pokémon in it, it's a Pokémon story, regardless of how wildly different the universe is from what is portrayed in any canon.

Your story could go either way; I'm kind of iffy on your implementation of the morphs (they're born in clothing? Why don't the gijinkas just take off their Pokémon clothes and live as humans, if having the Pokémon clothes condemns them to being slaves?), and you haven't actually told us the plot so that is difficult to judge at the moment, but it's not as if the story is suddenly bad because it's a different universe.

: D Yeah, sorry about that.

I just thought that they are generally made into slaves ever since birth- I guess they have some sort of collars which identify them as slaves.
And- foolish of me not to mention it in the first place- they feel extremely discomfortable if they do not wear those clothes. It's like you'd go walking around naked. They can do it if a situation calls for it, but mostly they feel like killing themselves/sinking through the ground.

PS: Also, I actually wrote about this in a file earlier. I seemed to have decided that 'The gijinka mostly accept their slavery as a normal thing, and since most owners treat them pretty well, their lust for freedom is usually supressed quite easily.' Like in ancient Rome. (Note to myself and everyone else: In that AU the humans would only have normal hair-colors and eye-colors, also distinguishing the gijinka further. I guess the human form is just a draw-back for them, and a way to inconvenience the main character if his clothes are stolen. D:)
Hmm.

The born-with-clothes is my really poor attempt at explaining how they get those clothes. In an earlier revision they just magically poofed into existence, now they are like the skins of the mythical seals who shed their skin to become beautiful women. (The myth also had the idea that if you hide the skin the seal-woman will stay a woman and be yours for forever or something.)

I haven't really thought all this through, since I can't think of any other way to have half-pokemon in my story. The morphic idea is perfect, but I can't really use it. (How could the gijinkapeople reproduce? They would be mostly sterile, and the scientists wouldn't have the time in their hands to produce hundreds of the same species.)

I can't really discuss about the story, because of these reasons:

1. I was thinking of writing short to medium length stories about the normal lives of individuals in this world, for example one story about some gladiators, another about a mewtwo-gijinka who would have so much physical flaws rendering it basically useless.
2. Im not sure if I can ever write or publish my stories. I have a very short attention span, and even though I have the drive to draw and write, if I start a project I usually forget about it or lose the drive to do it. Even though I've HAD to draw from ever since I was 7, I can't finish a picture unless I do it in one sitting. Same with texts.
I however will remember my already-existent universes and elaborate on them. This one just isn't as well planned...


PS PS: I didn't see your post, Kam, sorry.

That sounds interesting. : D
I'd like to hear why the battling is illegal- Is it because Giovanni fears the revolution that would follow? :D

I've nearly always went "pretty much AU" in my Pokémon fanfiction. By which I mean "ignoring most if not all elements related to Pokémon exclusively present in the anime and/or manga". Everything in my works was taken from the games and my own deductions around it, though it might be that my own deductions matched what the anime/manga says at one point or other.

Otherwise, though, as mentioned, Pokémon doesn't have much of an universe to run away from. If you choose to write a story about Pokémon in the future or during the stone age, well, there's no real evidence that the Pokémon universe has never been through stone age, nor that it will never be sci-fi in the future. If you choose to make battling illegal, there's no real evidence Pokémon battling never was illegal, nor that it won't become someday. Hell, with the way Pokémon can resemble chicken-fighting for those who don't know the universe in depth, it's easy to assume Pokémon battles haven't always been legal and encouraged.

Now that I think of it, I haven't really seen many stories which would take place outside the canon world, unless of course in an imaginary island somewhere. They also feature fakemon, something I cringe at too. (I guess it's the same as you feel about furry/gijinka pokemon. : D)

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About fakémon: the way I see it, the only way to realistically make a non-Japan part of the Pokémon world would be to make up at least a handful of new species to populate it. It'd be kinda silly if every place in the entire world had the same 500 or so species, wouldn't it?

But I can see why fake Pokémon could bother some people--a lot of people tend to have very bad ideas for fake Pokémon. Even the Pokémon Factory, which generally does a pretty good job of spotting the crap ideas and stopping them from going through, let a few really lame ones in at various points in its history.

Generally, my version of the Pokémon world is set up so that Japan and a few other spots throughout the world (South America being one of them) have ridiculously high amounts of biodiversity in their Pokémon, while most other parts of the world don't. So you might find 250 species in a single region of Japan, and then about the same amount spread across the entire east coast of the United States. And of course, a lot of Pokémon can be found pretty much worldwide--especially the bugs and common rodents/birds, but also some weird ones. And of course, some Pokémon look different depending on where they're from (Shellos/Gastrodon and Arbok being canon examples already.) Every region (or at least every country) has some Pokémon that just aren't found anywhere else, though--I think I had it set up so that the Pikachu family were native to Japan, and were only found in large numbers in Kanto. Whenever they showed up anywhere else (especially Safari Zones!), it meant that they had been imported.

To Metallica Fanboy:
Yeah, now that you put it that way, my examples weren't really that far off after all. :P (I wanted to respond earlier but it felt stupid to just respond with one sentence.)

El Garbanzo:
That's what I thought too; the recent species aren't really enough... But just like you said, it can bother. ;D (I am multitasking so the text seems to be a bit fragmented.) The problem (for me) is the fakemon not fitting into the pokemon universe. Usually it's either because they are too simple, or then they are too "cool" and sharp and not really in the style of pokemon. (For example, compare charmander and agumon. They are based on a similar idea, after all, but are presented in completetly different styles, not unlike some pokemon fakes. Though I've seen some extremely good ones, too.)
That sounds good. :3 Actually, it makes sense if the regions with little environmental diversity (A cold country with a short summer) wouldn't have that many species. While I can imagine butterfree living in Finland, it's hard for me to imagine beautifly or dustox might survive.

The problem (for me) is the fakemon not fitting into the pokemon universe. Usually it's either because they are too simple, or then they are too "cool" and sharp and not really in the style of pokemon.

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I think most of that is because not everyone can imitate Sugimori's art style well, especially when it comes to fakémon designs.

Most Pokémon could be redrawn in a more "serious"/"cool"/"sharp" style and still look like Pokémon, but it really stands out when all the canon Pokémon are drawn in a Sugimori-ish way but then there's some fan-made ones drawn in a very different style right next to them.

I guess the "too simple" designs would actually cause more problems... it'd be much easier to "sharpen up" the designs of other Pokémon than it would be to tone them down (I can't imagine something like Dialga, Regigigas, or Giratina would look very good if drawn in a much simpler style just to fit better with simple-looking fakémon.)

El Garbanzo said:

But yeah, the "nothing different except everyone's gender" stories belong in the same junk bin with the high-school stories and things like that. To be called "AU" there should be a pretty significant difference in the universe itself, or a diverging plot somewhere... and Pokémon doesn't exactly have a lot of plot--I guess there could be a "what if Team Rocket/Aqua/Magma/Galactic's plan worked?" AU, but beyond that there's not a whole to go on as far as what-if plots.

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What? What's wrong with genderbenders? Genderbenders are awesome if they're actually well-thought-out, particularly if they're for things with rigid gender roles. While not much of the Pokemon series's PLOT would change if certain characters were genderbended (I'm thinking of the Cerulean City gym leaders, most major characters in Orre, most of the Hoenn characters in Special, and the player's mom and Daisy as good candidates for genderbending) Pokemon still has fairly obvious gender roles. While it's clearly acceptable for everyone to train Pokemon, almost everyone in a position of power is male. Almost all of the named characters who aren't trainers are female.

El Garbanzo said:

I guess the "too simple" designs would actually cause more problems... it'd be much easier to "sharpen up" the designs of other Pokémon than it would be to tone them down (I can't imagine something like Dialga, Regigigas, or Giratina would look very good if drawn in a much simpler style just to fit better with simple-looking fakémon.)

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Like Pokemon designs aren't simple already?

The problem with fakemon designs is that they're nearly always too complicated.

Yeah... But usually when I see "genderbend" I think of the writer wanting to just have more women in the story. That is just my own prejudices unfortunately.

(Now that I think of it:)I meant by the too-simple/too-complicated that some fakemon look like they need more detail, and are left with scarcely any. For example, a "cool" frame (Think dialga and tyranitar) with hardly any coloration details or other bodily details. Imagine Tyranitar just being a smooth, plasticlike green without any pointy bits.
And the opposite end- a frame designed to be cute (Think chansey, sunkern etc) with too much details.

Link is an example I made of what I mostly had in mind. :P

What? What's wrong with genderbenders? Genderbenders are awesome if they're actually well-thought-out, particularly if they're for things with rigid gender roles.

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Most of the gender-swapping stuff I've seen is the "what if _____ was a girl/boy instead?" kind of thing, usually based more on some weird fantasy of the author than anything you might have to actually think about.

There might be some that are more thought-out hiding somewhere, but just about all of what I've seen isn't. Mostly just people going nuts over what some character would look like with a different set of body parts, and people who think being gay is "wrong" but want to write about two guys anyway, so they turn one of them into a girl. That's the kind of stuff I was talking about when I said those stories were junk. The other 0.1% or so that isn't like that probably isn't that bad.

The problem with fakemon designs is that they're nearly always too complicated.

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Hmm... most of the really bad ones I've seen were either too simple (blobby things without much defining features, or very generic-looking critters), badly drawn, or too much like existing Pokémon. Or they were made by jamming random parts of other Pokémon together without even really trying to cover it up.

I'd rather have a Fakémon design that's just a bit too complicated than one that still looks like a half-finished first sketch even when it's supposed to be the final version, or a clone of some other Pokémon, or a random jumble of parts from half a dozen other Pokémon.