Racsism in pokemon

I would really like to know why there is a discussion on ~racism in Pokémon~ that has not brought up, say, Aloe.

enekoiru said:

I would really like to know why there is a discussion on ~racism in Pokémon~ that has not brought up, say, Aloe.

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Do you think that any story that has a character with a different skin color is racist? Especially if nobody notices this difference? That happens with some main characters in Star Trek and some that are not main, but Star Trek's idea is basically the opposite of racism. The answer to your question is probably something very similar.

No. I do think modelling a character off of Aunt Jemima while everyone calls her "Mama" regardless of actual relation is, however.

I'll reserve judgment on Aloe/Lenora until I see the English localization of her. Japan has a wildly different interpretation of what is and is not racism and, although that doesn't excuse it, I think the big issue is whether or not TPCi has learned from the Jynx debacle and changes it before it becomes a big deal (which I think they will, given how even in Japan they changed her character art because of the racism issue).

This is kind of a two-sided coin and I'm going to get lambasted for commenting on it either way, probably, but the way I see it: Japan has a totally different idea of racism and, while that doesn't mean it isn't racism, it does mean that we can't expect them to use the American standard instead. (To argue something of a straw man version of my argument, how would you like it if some aliens came along in their spaceship and said, "In our culture it's taboo to clothe the feet. You wear shoes. Therefore you are sinners and we must destroy you.") The way it's localized matters, the way it was originally doesn't so much.

I think I just used 2 paragraphs to say what could be easily summed up in a single sentence.

Lenora seems to be fine! (I've been looking through the script most of the day.) But Aloe is still really, really gross.

Japan has a totally different idea of racism, yes; their idea seems to be it's not really an issue. Hence things like trying to get people who have lived in Japan for generations to move "back" to Brazil. Or Korea, but I haven't heard of the government trying to bribe Korean-Japanese people to move to Korea.

Pokémon is a multinational franchise; I feel it's completely reasonable to expect better.

Pokemon is a multinational franchise like the Simpsons is a multinational franchise: yes, it's multinational, but on the other hand, it's very firmly based in a single country (Japan/USA respectively) and the makers are probably not going to go very far to cater to international markets* (except when they've already had an established precedent of doing so, like with legendary names in Pokemon).

Would you be offended if you were an Indian Hindu and saw Bart Simpson eating a hamburger**? Of course not; it's a cultural thing. You'd probably disapprove and say "oh those horrible savage Americans, eating cows" but (hopefully) you'd understand that they aren't catering to you because you're not their native target. Same for the Japanese versions of Pokemon. It just happens that America is hypersensitive about racism because of our history. I'd be interested in what someone from, say, England has to say about this.

(I'm not trying to deny that Aloe is offensive; I'm just saying, it doesn't have anything to do with America so why should we even care.)

* At least, in the original incarnation of the product. Translations and region-specific merchandising doesn't count toward my point because the original creators don't usually control them (or if they do, it's mainly in an approve/disapprove capacity and not in actual creative work).

** Maybe a more wordy but also more apt comparison would be something like, Would you be offended if you were an Indian Hindu and saw the Hindi translation of Bart Simpson eating what he says is a chicken sandwich and then looked up the original English and found out it was originally a hamburger?

Slight bit of a difference between eating a hamburger and using racial stereotypes!

For Pokémon Black and White, they very clearly spent a lot of time trying to get the random not-Japanese right. There is a lot of English and Spanish and French and German and Italian in this game! There are a few Americans on the staff! There are two different shows in-game focusing on learning English! (One for English in general, one for Pokémon names.) I would be very surprised if they weren't considering the possibility that people not ethnically Japanese might play this game in Japanese!

Hell, even most of the non-white and non-Japanese characters are pretty much fine! ... Okay, it's incredibly questionable that the only definitely non-Japanese and non-white trainer type's kind of breakdancing, but they're polite and reasonable and pretty much not stereotypical even if. Well. Only clearly black generic trainer type.

There is no good excuse for Aloe. Also, as far as I know, they didn't change her character design when they changed her to Lenora, though I haven't checked the BW sprites. So. Still Aunt Jemima, even if they fixed the dialogue relating to her.

Hello, I am from Scotland! Scotland's population is 98.7% white.

Aloe is kind of ridiculous and it weirds me out. I care! Just because my country used to like kicking around its non-white colonies does not mean I don't find stereotyping and racism upsetting. Maybe it's because I get othered constantly as well, even as a white, cisgendered, straight, able-bodied, middle-class female - I am Scottish, so I must be [this] and think [that], and be incomprehensible and stupid to boot! I find Groundskeeper Willie's portrayal in The Simpsons *intensely* grating.

I think what bothers me most about Aloe is that I can't write her off as a goddamn mammy stereotype. She is and that's ... I expect better. But she's also fucking badass and she's the resident fossil nerd and so on and so forth. It's ridiculous that her Japanese trainer title is NATURAL-BORN MAMA. ... Lenora's 'An Archaeologist with Backbone'.

I'm not even sure why they decided to resort to the mammy stereotype. They put enough thought into her to make her an interesting character, and then somebody decided that everyone needed to call her 'mama' and she would look like Aunt Jemima. If English BW didn't change her sprite, I will write letters.

It's really sort of sad when we have someone pointing these kinds of fingers at something like /Pokemon/.

Jack_the_PumpkinKing said:

Would you be offended if you were an Indian Hindu and saw Bart Simpson eating a hamburger**? Of course not; it's a cultural thing.

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I think a better comparison would be the Kwik-e-mart guy, who apparently is considered offensive by some people of Indian ancestry.