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  #21  
Old 02-08-2015, 03:34 AM
1. Luftballon 1. Luftballon is offline
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Default Re: On Chill

I mean, there's semi-precedent in wish, as well as stockpile + swallow, for paying up-front to set up healing to be gained later. this is slightly different but.
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  #22  
Old 02-08-2015, 04:01 AM
Mai Mai is offline
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Default Re: On Chill

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1. Luftballon View Post
I mean, there's semi-precedent in wish, as well as stockpile + swallow, for paying up-front to set up healing to be gained later. this is slightly different but.
I wouldn't call those the same thing. Wish guarantees you healing later on, and stockpile has a benefit of its own in defense boosts (plus, it can be spit up too). It would be something if wish could actually be prevented once it's called, but it ... can't, it even passes onto another pokemon if the user faints, and I don't think any of us really want it to be.
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  #23  
Old 02-08-2015, 04:08 AM
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Default Re: On Chill

I feel like it would be fair if Chill was just treated like any other move. After all, if you look at the database right now, it's categorized like any other move, and I'd personally ref it that way - you can't use Chill if you can't use any other move you would be using otherwise.
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For those in ASB Battles that I happen to be reffing, I have several habits that deviate from most other refs. These can be found in this document, and involve mostly stat modifications and status conditions, as well as other clarifications regarding the specifics of certain attacks.
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Originally Posted by Pokémon Showdown VGC
[23:53:13] +0riginalTrainer: This is a direct result of the patriarchy.
[23:53:51] +J.D.Deuce: feminism is awesome
[23:53:52] +Viscereal: uh please address me by my pronouns
[23:53:59] +Viscereal: loom/looms/loomself
[23:54:35] +0riginalTrainer: You white male cis scum, check you privilege. No matter how many documents you throw in front of me, the wage gap is real.
[23:54:58] +J.D.Deuce: you've been warned lol
[23:55:14] +B1SHARP: So you believe that fathers deserve the same leave after they have an at home newborn as mothers?
[23:55:40] +0riginalTrainer: So you believe that women should be drafted too?
[23:55:45] +B1SHARP: Yes
[23:55:45] +Viscereal: yes, when they have a baby shove itself through their dick they can get work off
[23:55:47] +Takron Galtos: I'd settle just for at-home leave actually be guarunteed without penalties for mothers.
[23:55:51] +Superbird: you know what we need right now
[23:55:53] +Takron Galtos: That's not even standard yet.
[23:56:00] +0riginalTrainer: What I hate about feminism is that it turns a lot of male issues into female issues, then calls it feminism.
[23:56:02] +Viscereal: challenge cup round robin?
[23:56:03] +Superbird: a tourney to distract everyone from controvertial discussion
[23:56:03] @amr97: another tournament
[23:56:06] @amr97: hurry hurry
[23:56:08] +Superbird: NAILED IT
[23:56:11] +KillerOrcas: woah there what happened here
Battle Spot Doubles (VGC 2015) Single Elimination Tournament created.
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  #24  
Old 02-08-2015, 08:38 AM
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Default Re: On Chill

Alright, to dive into the whole lot of discussion:
-Sounds like we're all in favour of keeping the standard amount of energy recovery by Chill.
-Chill disruption has continuously been mentioned as a balance factor, but the problem is that, if we were to truly use it for that purpose, it would have to become a more widely known thing. As it stands, the only people who penalize Chills performed in adverse circumstances are the ones who were around when Negrek gave that negs say-so or somehow came up with the same idea all on their own, which would be rather rare. As it stands, quite a few referees aren't familiar with the prospect of Chill disruption, and more to the point, even less players are familiar with it, which means they won't think to disrupt enemy Chilling strategically. So, if we're going to officially make Chill disruption a factor of balance, it needs to be as well known as Chills themselves are, and possibly even enforced (not by hard numbers or specific situations, since neither would properly account for the vast breadth of ASB circumstances, but it'd have to become the norm rather than the edge case to penalize Chills in the right circumstances).
-I suppose most are in agreement that Chilling should be impossible to a Pokémon who is incapable of using another move due to paralysis, confusion, or attraction.
-On general sleep: I'm so far neutral towards banning Chills from regular sleep, but note that it is very possible to justify flavorwise. All non-Rest sleep is caused by an enemy action, and believe me, falling asleep due to sniffing mushroom spores will not leave you refreshed and full of energy when you wake up (I mean, not that I have personal experience with it, but you know). Note also that Sleep Talk is also always a possibility erstwhile asleep, so banning Chills from it doesn't necessarily strengthen sleep as a status condition too much, since you're not exactly, as has been said, vulnerable or unable to act at all (and in fact, Sleep Talk is so common in ASB, I've already basically trained myself to see sleep in ASB as the status condition that makes Pokémon use moves randomly).
-Rest has been a weirder case in the discussion. Firstly, I think it'd help to clarify things that whether Rest heals all at once or gradually is a matter where the official effects on old ASB have changed pretty much back and forth, so which one a referee does at the present moment is essentially a mark of when they started reffing, which is why there has been confusion about which is supposed to be done. On the more, energy cost all at once and healing gradually sounds nice to me, and it's not that hard to pull off flavorwise either...
-Lastly, I suppose the discussion on Solar Beam/Giga Impact wasn't entirely clear. Chilling while charging a move or recharging from a move is not permitted at the present moment. The matter of fact is that these moves can be used in one turn, but at a higher energy cost; however, Chilling in the action immediately following the move essentially proves itself a means of using the move in two turns while spending less energy. Of course, it's not entirely certain that this is a problem at all, but still, if it is one, then it'd be that one (and I for one already make two-turn attacks cost less in the very rare event that someone actually has them performed in two actions, so although using the move and then Chilling is still probably most energy-efficient, the margin of difference would be rather thin in my own calculation notepad...).
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  #25  
Old 05-10-2015, 10:14 PM
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Music Dragon Music Dragon is offline
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Default Re: On Chill

It doesn't seem like any consensus was reached regarding Rest Chills, and I need to know what to do in my next reffing, so I'm reviving this thread. I'm inclined to disallow Chilling while asleep, or at least during Rest, but what's the official ruling?
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  #26  
Old 05-11-2015, 06:14 PM
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Default Re: On Chill

I think we're going with chills working during sleep.
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