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Gay Marriage Legalized in NY

Alvyren said:
This is exactly the sort of thing I hate. The fight against heteronormality isn't exclusive to cisgendered gays and lesbians.
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Nobody said that the proposed shirts should be exclusive to cisgender people. The case he was referring to would be if gays and lesbians (the people primarily affected by the recent vote) were to wear said shirts. I'm sure he didn't mean to exclude anyone.
 
Aobaru said:
Wait, how is "I <3 NY...and so does my boyfriend" offensive exactly? o.o
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Karkat Vantas said:
I'm perplexed as to why you find a burst of gay pride after the passing of a same-sex marriage bill to be insulting.
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Volcarona said:
Nobody said that the proposed shirts should be exclusive to cisgender people. The case he was referring to would be if gays and lesbians (the people primarily affected by the recent vote) were to wear said shirts. I'm sure he didn't mean to exclude anyone.
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Miss, miss, and miss again.

Ashton Van Helsing said:
The new "I <3 NY" shirt should read "I <3 NY...and so does my boyfriend" and exchange "boyfriend" for "girlfriend" if it's in women's sizes.
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I would seriously hope the queer community can identify inhibitors like these that perpetuate the fixed gender binary.
 
Alvyren said:
The new "I <3 NY" shirt should read "I <3 NY...and so does my boyfriend" and exchange "boyfriend" for "girlfriend" if it's in women's sizes.
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I would seriously hope the queer community can identify inhibitors like these that perpetuate the fixed gender binary.
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Well yeah, but the idea was that these shirts would be catered for homosexual couples who can marry from now on. A woman wearing a shirt saying "I <3 NY and so does my boyfriend" (or the opposite) would in no way imply that that they <3 NY because of gay marriage's legalisation there. A MAN wearing such a shirt (Or a woman wearing a girlfriend one), however, would imply such.

If I've missed your point and you're talking about non-binary couples, then the point still stands of whoever it was who said that shirts made for trans couples would have a really, really small audience.

Anyway, hooray for the increasing rapid progress of America! Well done, you country, you.
 
Zephyrous Castform said:
If I've missed your point and you're talking about non-binary couples, then the point still stands of whoever it was who said that shirts made for trans couples would have a really, really small audience.
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So you're instead satisfied with the capitalising of the bill? Either way, it's the mindset I have an issue with. You can't just go and add hypotheticals on top of hypotheticals when the notion of the first hypothetical was "this would be neat" rather than "this is going to happen".
 
Alvyren said:
So you're instead satisfied with the capitalising of the bill? Either way, it's the mindset I have an issue with. You can't just go and add hypotheticals on top of hypotheticals when the notion of the first hypothetical was "this would be neat" rather than "this is going to happen".
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Well no, that wasn't my point; while I'm all for the breaking of the gender binary and such, I just don't see how the proposed T-shirts were offensive to trans couples. I mean, what would you suggest they should say instead/trans-tailored shirts should say? "I <3 NY and so does my partner?" Again, that doesn't really carry the intended connotation.

Besides, I'm pretty sure that the whole T-shirts thing was pretty much a joke in the first place anyway.
 
Zephyrous Castform said:
Besides, I'm pretty sure that the whole T-shirts thing was pretty much a joke in the first place anyway.
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Ohh, a joke! Well, pardon me! That just excuses just about everything, doesn't it? How nice it is to be able to dismiss everything at a whim by merely joking about it.
 
Alvyren said:
Ohh, a joke! Well, pardon me! That just excuses just about everything, doesn't it? How nice it is to be able to dismiss everything at a whim by merely joking about it.
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Wait what? My point was that whoever it was who originally said the thing about the T-shirts, whoever it was, I can't be bothered to check, was not being serious about it, and so was evidently not going to go particularly deep into it and say "Oh and there should be 'And so does my trans partner' ones too". Kindly don't be superiorly sarcastic like that, it doesn't help your argument.
 
Zephyrous Castform said:
Wait what? My point was that whoever it was who originally said the thing about the T-shirts, whoever it was, I can't be bothered to check, was not being serious about it, and so was evidently not going to go particularly deep into it and say "Oh and there should be 'And so does my trans partner' ones too". Kindly don't be superiorly sarcastic like that, it doesn't help your argument.
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You are missing my point entirely, and I am being serious. A relationship between a cis man and a trans man is still a gay relationship. This seems to slip under the radar for way too many people. Please don't interject if you're going to just ignore what I'm actually saying because that doesn't help your argument any.
 
Alvyren said:
I would seriously hope the queer community can identify inhibitors like these that perpetuate the fixed gender binary.
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Okay, so what you're saying is that the "I <3 NY... and so does my boyfriend/girlfriend" shirt should be available in both men's and women's sizes? Or am I still missing the point?
 
Alvyren said:
You are missing my point entirely, and I am being serious. A relationship between a cis man and a trans man is still a gay relationship. This seems to slip under the radar for way too many people. Please don't interject if you're going to just ignore what I'm actually saying because that doesn't help your argument any.
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One question: What do you want them to say instead?
 
Unisex shirts are baggy and they fit really badly! Why would I want to wear that?
 
Alvyren said:
Have you not read a thing I've said this entire thread?
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I have read everything you have said, I just don't understand your arguments.

Also please stop equating sex and gender because they're not the same.
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I know of these differences, I am not sure where the implication was that I didn't. A same-sex relationship would be a trans man and a cis woman getting together. A same-gender relationship would be a trans man and a cis man getting together.

But mainly my point is:
a) There already exists these shirts for opposite-gender (and presumably sex) couples.
b) Shirts for same-gender couples don't exist.
c) Hence, they should be made, but they might not be if you protest them under the grounds of it being unfair to gender-variant/deconstructionist people because same-gender couple-affirming people would be more likely to care en masse.
d) Hence, only the shirts for opposite-gender (and presumably sex) couples would exist because they aren't likely to give a crap about the opinions about gender-fluid people en masse.
 
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Eloi said:
I know of these differences, I am not sure where the implication was that I didn't. A same-sex relationship would be a trans man and a cis woman getting together. A same-gender relationship would be a trans man and a cis man getting together.
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Nnnoooo. A cis person still has a gender. It just happens to co-align with the gender they were assigned at birth. Two cis people dating, of the same gender, are still a same-gender couple. Sex is pretty much irrelevant, other than being a physical marker.
 
pathos said:
Nnnoooo. A cis person still has a gender. It just happens to co-align with the gender they were assigned at birth. Two cis people dating, of the same gender, are still a same-gender couple. Sex is pretty much irrelevant, other than being a physical marker.
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Yes, I know. That's what I was trying to demonstrate. Seriously guys, I know (and care about) this stuff.
 
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Eloi said:
A same-sex relationship would be a trans man and a cis woman getting together. A same-gender relationship would be a trans man and a cis man getting together.
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this is bollocks
my girlfriend and I are in an opposite-sex relationship
the fact that I possess two x chromosomes does not change that

when you're talking about sex and gender in this context, they're the same, surely????
 
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