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  #21  
Old 09-29-2012, 09:39 PM
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Default Re: Child Discipline

well, i believe you shouldn't hit kids, but i believe you should just tell them right from wrong, for example, a relationship between a kid and parents shouldn't be like this:

*kid does something wrong*
parent:jimmy don't do that
kid: f**k off.
parent:don't use bad language.
kid:screw you *leaves.*

i would think maybe just not hit but "take something away(e.x no TV for a week)" from the child, if they don't learn, try talking to them or something.

Long story short avoid hitting them.
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  #22  
Old 09-30-2012, 12:15 AM
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Default Re: Child Discipline

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkAura View Post
I heard of this one lady who spanked her adopted Russian son just for him to be normal. I don't see any logic in that...

I think spanking a child is wrong, because it harms them, of course, and it makes them SCARED to mess up (They think if they mess up, they'll get spanked again), when people need to fail to know not to make the mistake again
Okay, this is just... a little out of line.

I'm not sure what religion you guys are, but I'm going to use this quote from the bible (I'm not using it religiously, so don't sue me):

Proverbs 19:18;Discipline your children while there is hope. Otherwise you will ruin their lives.

Aura, I understand what you're saying. HOWever...

You gotta do what you can while it works. I know you said that they'll be afraid to step out of line, but don't you guys get it? That's the point! Eventually, they'll forget why they're afraid, they'll just remember it's wrong. Giving them a stern talking-to doesn't really lay down any lines, because next time they're about to do said action, they won't look back and say, "Oh, if I do this, I'm gonna get spanked." More than likely, they won't even remember you told them not to do it. Actions speak louder than words, as they say.

Also, this supports what I say (You gotta understand that I'm not influencing you to believe the bible, I just can't say it any better myself):

Proverbs 13:24"He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes (diligently)."

If you're not punishing your children right, how are they about to end up? No restrictions, no lines drawn that separates what's right from what's wrong other than a few words that they have forgotten since.

Now, that's not to say I'm not against child abuse. No, I strongly disagree with child abuse, but when it's merely a spanking or such, it's not necessarily child abuse. Pain is only temporary, while abuse is forever. Child abuse is a terrible thing, and it should never be practiced.

A child's mind is of foolishness, while a smack will send them driving away from it.
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  #23  
Old 09-30-2012, 12:17 AM
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Default Re: Child Discipline

No. Being on the receiving end is, to my memory (and I didn't get a lot of it, really), absolutely and horribly terrifying. Also scary is how people's ideas of 'doing something really bad' differ. I got smacked the few times I was genuinely mean-spirited towards my sister, and mean-spiritedness is a thing kids just end up playing around with because it's interesting.

Don't hit things that are smaller than you, and that you have massive power relations with. ... or at all.


Wow, I could literally just never speak to or trust my parents at all ever again if they'd ever done more than they did. You're seriously jeopardising your future relationship with your kid.

Mohacastle: try Viki's link! especially the parts about how going to violence first for discipline is at best really unimaginative

Last edited by Minish; 09-30-2012 at 12:23 AM.
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  #24  
Old 09-30-2012, 12:46 AM
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Default Re: Child Discipline

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohacastle View Post
Okay, this is just... a little out of line.

I'm not sure what religion you guys are, but I'm going to use this quote from the bible (I'm not using it religiously, so don't sue me):

Proverbs 19:18;Discipline your children while there is hope. Otherwise you will ruin their lives.
Which version are you using? NLT?

Because if you look at all the different translations it can be interpreted quite differently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by King James Version
Chasten your son while there is hope, and let not your soul spare for his crying.
The Bible is quite supportive of 'disciplining' children.

Hebrews 12:7
Proverbs 23:13
Proverbs 29:15
Proverbs 29:17
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  #25  
Old 09-30-2012, 12:51 AM
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Default Re: Child Discipline

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohacastle
If you're not punishing your children right, how are they about to end up? No restrictions, no lines drawn that separates what's right from what's wrong other than a few words that they have forgotten since.
If the only way your kid can tell right from wrong is by having been punished for doing what was bad, you're doing parenting wrong.

Even aside from all the ethical problems with inflicting violence on your kids under any circumstances, they need to understand right and wrong, not just blindly learn by operant conditioning to do x and avoid y. Empathy and an understanding of consequences is the key to real moral behaviour; you can't get morality through pure conditioning.

As for how the kids end up? I was never punished as a kid - not physically, but I've also never been grounded, had my internet restricted, my toys taken away, or whatever. And also I went around convincing other kids to help me save earthworms from the street instead of killing them, being appalled when my brother took some licorice he wasn't supposed to have, and asked my parents' permission before I made a forum because it said to do so in the terms of service. Sure, not every kid is going to be identical, but the idea that punishment is the only way to make a kid behave is simply wrong.
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  #26  
Old 09-30-2012, 06:12 AM
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Default Re: Child Discipline

Both of my parents have come close to being arrested due to how physical they were in disciplining me as a child. Mom, especially. And I'm still scared to death of her.

It has permanently lasting effects, and nobody can convince me otherwise.
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  #27  
Old 09-30-2012, 01:11 PM
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Default Re: Child Discipline

Okay, I see where you're coming from, guys. But you're not doing parenting, "Wrong."

The way I see it, discipline is completely necessary at certain times. Chalumeau, I'm sure that must have been terrible, but that was probably child abuse, not discipline. That is WAY out of line.

Butterfree, if you've never been punished all these years and still turned out great, then that's awesome for you. But the way I see it, not all kids are as good to their parents as you were; while, obviously, you were far from perfect, you were closer than most, based on the fact that you thought you needed punishment for petitioning worms. o_O

But if you say the same thing over and over and your kid doesn't get it, what are you going to do? Apparently you saying it isn't helping at all, so you need to do something else. Now then, and only then is child discipline necessary. Unless you have the worst kid on the planet, it should NOT be an everyday thing- and it shouldn't be something that scars you for life. See, the things about these articles is that they erase the border between abuse and discipline.

Child discipline lasts a moment, but can permanently affect your future decisions.

Child abuse is just wrong.
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  #28  
Old 09-30-2012, 01:35 PM
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Default Re: Child Discipline

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohacastle View Post
Okay, I see where you're coming from, guys. But you're not doing parenting, "Wrong."

The way I see it, discipline is completely necessary at certain times. Chalumeau, I'm sure that must have been terrible, but that was probably child abuse, not discipline. That is WAY out of line.

Butterfree, if you've never been punished all these years and still turned out great, then that's awesome for you. But the way I see it, not all kids are as good to their parents as you were; while, obviously, you were far from perfect, you were closer than most, based on the fact that you thought you needed punishment for petitioning worms. o_O

But if you say the same thing over and over and your kid doesn't get it, what are you going to do? Apparently you saying it isn't helping at all, so you need to do something else. Now then, and only then is child discipline necessary. Unless you have the worst kid on the planet, it should NOT be an everyday thing- and it shouldn't be something that scars you for life. See, the things about these articles is that they erase the border between abuse and discipline.

Child discipline lasts a moment, but can permanently affect your future decisions.

Child abuse is just wrong.
Why is hitting a child the only way of disciplining them? Small punishments are a fine way of teaching a child that what they did was wrong. Just make them sit on the steps for five minutes and they'll know what they did was out of line, but they won't be mad at you for it or anything, or feel overly hurt - it'll just be a quick lesson. And it works. Hitting your child is literally never necessary unless they hit you first for some reason (psychopathy? idek).

The best 'punishment' though? Seriously? Explain why what they did was wrong. I promise you children are not idiots. They're simple maybe but speaking down to children like they are idiots is the most infuriating thing. If you tell them why what they did was wrong, and they agree - and children probably will because that's the age where they learn - they won't do it again. If you hit them, they'll fear you and they won't do it again while you're looking, but while you're not there? Sure. And plus, they learn that hitting's a great way to get what they want.
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  #29  
Old 09-30-2012, 01:40 PM
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Default Re: Child Discipline

Okay. But don't take hitting out of the image entirely- I mean, I don't mean to sound vicious, but it is completely necessary at times. No, certainly don't do it all the time. Yes, make em sit on the steps or put their nose in the corner. But every once in a while, I believe it is completely necessary IF you have a child who learns by no other means, which is becoming quite common these days with our spoiled society.
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  #30  
Old 09-30-2012, 02:06 PM
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Default Re: Child Discipline

Hey, guess what. I was no angel child, but I was smart enough that I could learn right from even if my mother didn't spank me. But guess what? She did, probably out of desperation, and it never did more than make me scared of her when she's angry. I still cower when she's pissed off and she hasn't put a hand on me in years.
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  #31  
Old 09-30-2012, 03:34 PM
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Default Re: Child Discipline

the thing with my parents is that they did try to instill the knowledge of why things were right or wrong but i just didn't care because i was an autistic little child and if i couldn't understand the reason why something was right or wrong (even if they explained it, sometimes i still didn't get it) then they realized the only way to teach me was to make me feel negative repercussions for my behavior. they once tried to do this by taking away all my stuffed animals, which led to me throwing all my stuffed animals out of the room because i didn't give a shit. so they had to spank me.

just throwing that out there. i am completely against physical child discipline but figured i'd share
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  #32  
Old 09-30-2012, 07:00 PM
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Default Re: Child Discipline

Now, I might have some old school views on this, but I do believe spanking your children is a positive thing. I was personally smacked as a child, and the big thing that it hammered home was not the difference between right and wrong, but respect. I learned to respect the authority of my parents after a light hit, at least when I'm young, and naturally that lead to me learning a higher degree of morality from actually trying to listen to my parents at times.
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  #33  
Old 09-30-2012, 07:09 PM
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Default Re: Child Discipline

Just because it worked for you, doesn't mean it works for everyone? Whereas if it didn't work for one person, that's usually the point where you should question it.

I sort of listened to my parents because they were nice and usually I could trust them, not because I saw them as an ~authority~ that I had to obey. :|
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  #34  
Old 09-30-2012, 07:11 PM
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Default Re: Child Discipline

I got hit occasionally as a child, and generally was not "disciplined" well. Funnily enough, I never had a very good relationship with my parents.

Not that I really blame them, but ... hitting children doesn't always work.

(aside: interestingly enough the internet was kind of my moral guide (primarily tcod) and look at how I turned out I guess??)
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  #35  
Old 09-30-2012, 07:45 PM
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Default Re: Child Discipline

I was never beaten as a child, and I grew up to be a heartless bastard.
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  #36  
Old 09-30-2012, 09:33 PM
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Default Re: Child Discipline

Okay, I'm getting really tired of all the anecdotes. This is serious business, not tell us your personal story. I know this is a personal subject, but most topics in SB are, and that doesn't mean that anecdotes suddenly become statistics. Please stop it.

Here are some actual facts.

Research your shit or don't debate it, seriously.
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  #37  
Old 09-30-2012, 10:18 PM
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Default Re: Child Discipline

Quote:
Originally Posted by pathos View Post
Okay, I'm getting really tired of all the anecdotes. This is serious business, not tell us your personal story. I know this is a personal subject, but most topics in SB are, and that doesn't mean that anecdotes suddenly become statistics. Please stop it.
Until someone starts presenting a lot of real evidence that physical 'discipline' is significantly beneficial, I don't see how "anecdotal evidence" is worthless because it's not even a debate at this point, and you can do little better than a primary source. You don't have to present ten peer-reviewed case studies to convince someone the sky is blue.

So as it is, statistics don't mean a fucking thing to me. I don't care if my "argument" is anecdotal -- It left a permanent mark that emerges every time I interact with other people. That's all I need to know.

Does that mean everyone is affected the same way? No.
Did it make me a "better kid"? No. It made me worse.

I have to live with this every day so it may as well be fucking fact. Do I care if some other kid who got spanked here and there turned out okay? No I fucking don't.

I think we seriously exaggerate the role parents play in being the definitive role model for children in our society with how much time they spend away from them and with other adults seen as role models, e.g. teachers or even friends'/peers' parents. Being hit by my parents didn't teach me to "respect authority" (what a fucking joke that is). It taught me my parents were fucking assholes.

There's a huge difference between my sister and I and it's really not very damn hard to figure out why.
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  #38  
Old 09-30-2012, 10:27 PM
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Default Re: Child Discipline

Eh, I think it's more that the 'I turned out fine' sort of anecdote is worthless. That it fucked you up means something; that it didn't fuck up some other people doesn't extrapolate to 'so it's okay for everyone'.
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  #39  
Old 10-01-2012, 01:03 AM
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Default Re: Child Discipline

It depends on the child. If xie is repeatedly bad, yes spanking/time outs are in order. But if xie is more like I was(rather docile and doesn't want to do wrong), than a scolding is enough.
Of course, if xie is like me, then one'd have to tell xir why not to do something, or xie'll do it on purpouse jsut to find out why not.
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  #40  
Old 10-01-2012, 01:13 AM
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Default Re: Child Discipline

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohacastle View Post
Okay. But don't take hitting out of the image entirely- I mean, I don't mean to sound vicious, but it is completely necessary at times.
such as?
Quote:
But every once in a while, I believe it is completely necessary IF you have a child who learns by no other means,
for example?
Quote:
which is becoming quite common these days with our spoiled society.
what??

please don't make large general statements as though they're common sense without actually backing anything up. it looks a great deal like you don't know what you're talking about.

I was hit as a kid and I'm scared of my mum when she's angry, woo. is that a good thing? I was hit very, very rarely but this still is the case! should I be scared of my mum when she's angry?
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