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[TOWN WINS] ASB Halloween Mafia
- Thread starter Negrek
- Start date
Eifie
oh man, good times.
- Pronoun
- she/her
Re: [D3] ASB Halloween Mafia
Somewhat what I was thinking when I made the previous post. His claim would clear Cynder, so that would be a motive. Now that we also have a roleblocker claim, I no longer know what to think about all these blocking/redirecting night roles (redirector, jailer, bus driver, roleblocker) running around.
It might be of note that Gzhoom's and Cynder's claims don't really have much synergy as a like, combined mafia fakeclaim thing, so the whole claiming to clear Cynder thing is now seeming less likely.
Somewhat what I was thinking when I made the previous post. His claim would clear Cynder, so that would be a motive. Now that we also have a roleblocker claim, I no longer know what to think about all these blocking/redirecting night roles (redirector, jailer, bus driver, roleblocker) running around.
It might be of note that Gzhoom's and Cynder's claims don't really have much synergy as a like, combined mafia fakeclaim thing, so the whole claiming to clear Cynder thing is now seeming less likely.
Sandstone-Shadow
A chickadee in love with the sky
- Pronoun
- she/her
Re: [D3] ASB Halloween Mafia
Okay, I'd like to clarify this a bit first, to make sure I'm understanding it:
If Gzhoom is being truthful, my hypothetical action stays the same and all actions targeted at ILS are now targeted to me, and vice versa? So Eifie targeting me gets redirected to ILS, so we'd have Gzhoom switching Eifie's action from me to ILS, and Eifie's action switching ILS to Cynder from RedneckPhoenix? Is that right?
I would like to note that Cynder has said a few times something along the lines of "my actions haven't been successful so far," which seems like a realistic thing for a roleblocker to say, if they've been targeting people without noticeable actions.
Okay, I'd like to clarify this a bit first, to make sure I'm understanding it:
If Gzhoom is being truthful, my hypothetical action stays the same and all actions targeted at ILS are now targeted to me, and vice versa? So Eifie targeting me gets redirected to ILS, so we'd have Gzhoom switching Eifie's action from me to ILS, and Eifie's action switching ILS to Cynder from RedneckPhoenix? Is that right?
I would like to note that Cynder has said a few times something along the lines of "my actions haven't been successful so far," which seems like a realistic thing for a roleblocker to say, if they've been targeting people without noticeable actions.
Sandstone-Shadow
A chickadee in love with the sky
- Pronoun
- she/her
Re: [D3] ASB Halloween Mafia
I'll say I'm a little suspicious of both Gzhoom's and Cynder's claims right now, although I guess both their claims COULD be true? If Cynder's not lying, then what Gzhoom said doesn't change anything regardless of whether or not he was also lying (but it would reveal Gzhoom's role, perhaps).
I'll say I'm a little suspicious of both Gzhoom's and Cynder's claims right now, although I guess both their claims COULD be true? If Cynder's not lying, then what Gzhoom said doesn't change anything regardless of whether or not he was also lying (but it would reveal Gzhoom's role, perhaps).
M&F
tikitok
- Pronoun
- any
Re: [D3] ASB Halloween Mafia
(as plausible as "one of you action-disruption monkeys targeted him N0" may seem with the appearance this setup is taking on, Eifie and RedneckPhoenix have already claimed otherwise and Cynder probably hasn't roleblocked himself)
Either Cynder is lying or one of you action-disruption monkeys targeted him N0. My night action demonstrably went through that night.
(as plausible as "one of you action-disruption monkeys targeted him N0" may seem with the appearance this setup is taking on, Eifie and RedneckPhoenix have already claimed otherwise and Cynder probably hasn't roleblocked himself)
Sandstone-Shadow
A chickadee in love with the sky
- Pronoun
- she/her
Eifie
oh man, good times.
- Pronoun
- she/her
Re: [D3] ASB Halloween Mafia
What about Gzhoom? We're still waiting on his previous actions.
What about Gzhoom? We're still waiting on his previous actions.
Gzhoom
Member
- Pronoun
- he
Re: [D3] ASB Halloween Mafia
N0 I switched my consequences with SS in the blind hopes that SS would be mafia, they’d start off the game by killing one of their own, and we’d start off with the lead.
N1 I didn’t do anything because we didn’t get any info N0 and I didn’t want to make anything less clear or make anyone look like they were lying.
Last night, I was worried that ILS would get targeted because of how active they were, so I switched ILS and SS because SS made that error with names a while back and that was the best lead I had on someone who might be mafia.
N0 I switched my consequences with SS in the blind hopes that SS would be mafia, they’d start off the game by killing one of their own, and we’d start off with the lead.
N1 I didn’t do anything because we didn’t get any info N0 and I didn’t want to make anything less clear or make anyone look like they were lying.
Last night, I was worried that ILS would get targeted because of how active they were, so I switched ILS and SS because SS made that error with names a while back and that was the best lead I had on someone who might be mafia.
Gzhoom
Member
- Pronoun
- he
Re: [D3] ASB Halloween Mafia
Oh, two things to clarify:
1. Negrek informed me after N0 that he made an error in my info and that I shouldn’t be able to target myself.
2. I had SS confused with RedneckPhoenix, who was the actual person who got names mixed up. I targeted SS last night, but for a reason that wasn’t actually real in retrospect.
Oh, two things to clarify:
1. Negrek informed me after N0 that he made an error in my info and that I shouldn’t be able to target myself.
2. I had SS confused with RedneckPhoenix, who was the actual person who got names mixed up. I targeted SS last night, but for a reason that wasn’t actually real in retrospect.
Sandstone-Shadow
A chickadee in love with the sky
- Pronoun
- she/her
Re: [D3] ASB Halloween Mafia
Ooookay. So, besides getting some clarification from MF on why he's suddenly accusing Cynder, I would still like to get some concrete clarification on how Gzhoom's role works. We've got multiple scenarios, and while they all KINDA lead to the same conclusion, I think the devil is in the details and it could be very important later.
Ooookay. So, besides getting some clarification from MF on why he's suddenly accusing Cynder, I would still like to get some concrete clarification on how Gzhoom's role works. We've got multiple scenarios, and while they all KINDA lead to the same conclusion, I think the devil is in the details and it could be very important later.
Phoenixsong
beep beep coming through
- Pronoun
- she/they/any
Re: [D3] ASB Halloween Mafia
Okay. A lot going on here, and I haven't read through all the action resolution stuff yet because I'm a bit distracted (will go back and read more carefully in a bit; not sure I'll have anything insightful to add about that though since it can really only be cleared up by Negrek sharing her action resolution order, which she may well not do until the game's over if she doesn't want to soft-confirm which roles are in the game), but I will say I'm tentatively siding with MF on the Cynder thing.
I'm the town gossip, or, uh... what else would it be called, a tracker? I think that's what I've seen called a tracker. I can tell who my target targeted on that night, anyway, so essentially what I do is confirm whether or not someone has a night action. Last night I targeted ZM, who did not use an action if he had one (doesn't mean he doesn't have one at all). N1 I targeted Gzhoom, who also did not use an action, which corroborates what he said about his nighttime activity above. Doesn't prove him innocent, but at least he's not lying about that, so he's low on my radar for now.
N0, however, I targeted MF (gotta know what you been up to after all this time, man!), and on that night I was told that he targeted Keldeo. No idea what he did, of course, and I don't wanna speculate for fear of painting unnecessary targets, but since he himself has confirmed that he Did A Thing I think it's okay to say that now. Clearly he didn't make an active mafia kill, as Keldeo didn't die that night, someone else did, and the current known chain of redirections doesn't imply that he attempted to kill them but it bounced to Superbird. But he did something, which corroborates what he's saying and contradicts what Cynder's saying, and so to me that makes it look like Cynder's lying here.
I will add the wrinkle that I don't get confirmation of what my target's action did to their target, only that they targeted whoever they targeted. It's possible that Cynder could successfully roleblock MF but I would still see MF's intent to target Keldeo even though it didn't actually resolve that way. Given that I know MF's not lying about being able to target someone, though, and that nothing bad seems to have happened to Keldeo as a result of said targeting, I'm inclined to believe him when he says he knows his action succeeded. Which means either something happened to Cynder's roleblock, or Cynder's lying about being a roleblocker or who he actually targeted.
I'm willing to hear other arguments and change my vote, especially if the action resolution resolution brings anything interesting to light or if Cynder has any useful clarifications, but for now my vote's on Cynder, on account of lyin' for any reason ain't helping town out very much right now.
(ILS clarifying the result he got might also be helpful here, although presumably it's "innocent" because I assume he would've spoken up if he'd gotten a "guilty" on RedneckPhoenix only to have the flip mark him as town. If ILS got "innocent" and his investigation was ultimately redirected to Cynder, though, I'm not sure what that means. I guess it's possible that I did only see intent to act rather than actual action, or maybe MF is actually scum/has a killing role and Keldeo was somehow able to bounce the attack targeted at them to Superbird on their own... but really, three redirecting roles? Seems a bit far-fetched.)
Okay. A lot going on here, and I haven't read through all the action resolution stuff yet because I'm a bit distracted (will go back and read more carefully in a bit; not sure I'll have anything insightful to add about that though since it can really only be cleared up by Negrek sharing her action resolution order, which she may well not do until the game's over if she doesn't want to soft-confirm which roles are in the game), but I will say I'm tentatively siding with MF on the Cynder thing.
I'm the town gossip, or, uh... what else would it be called, a tracker? I think that's what I've seen called a tracker. I can tell who my target targeted on that night, anyway, so essentially what I do is confirm whether or not someone has a night action. Last night I targeted ZM, who did not use an action if he had one (doesn't mean he doesn't have one at all). N1 I targeted Gzhoom, who also did not use an action, which corroborates what he said about his nighttime activity above. Doesn't prove him innocent, but at least he's not lying about that, so he's low on my radar for now.
N0, however, I targeted MF (gotta know what you been up to after all this time, man!), and on that night I was told that he targeted Keldeo. No idea what he did, of course, and I don't wanna speculate for fear of painting unnecessary targets, but since he himself has confirmed that he Did A Thing I think it's okay to say that now. Clearly he didn't make an active mafia kill, as Keldeo didn't die that night, someone else did, and the current known chain of redirections doesn't imply that he attempted to kill them but it bounced to Superbird. But he did something, which corroborates what he's saying and contradicts what Cynder's saying, and so to me that makes it look like Cynder's lying here.
I will add the wrinkle that I don't get confirmation of what my target's action did to their target, only that they targeted whoever they targeted. It's possible that Cynder could successfully roleblock MF but I would still see MF's intent to target Keldeo even though it didn't actually resolve that way. Given that I know MF's not lying about being able to target someone, though, and that nothing bad seems to have happened to Keldeo as a result of said targeting, I'm inclined to believe him when he says he knows his action succeeded. Which means either something happened to Cynder's roleblock, or Cynder's lying about being a roleblocker or who he actually targeted.
I'm willing to hear other arguments and change my vote, especially if the action resolution resolution brings anything interesting to light or if Cynder has any useful clarifications, but for now my vote's on Cynder, on account of lyin' for any reason ain't helping town out very much right now.
(ILS clarifying the result he got might also be helpful here, although presumably it's "innocent" because I assume he would've spoken up if he'd gotten a "guilty" on RedneckPhoenix only to have the flip mark him as town. If ILS got "innocent" and his investigation was ultimately redirected to Cynder, though, I'm not sure what that means. I guess it's possible that I did only see intent to act rather than actual action, or maybe MF is actually scum/has a killing role and Keldeo was somehow able to bounce the attack targeted at them to Superbird on their own... but really, three redirecting roles? Seems a bit far-fetched.)
Cynder
hapless homestuck
- Pronoun
- any
Re: [D3] ASB Halloween Mafia
Well, I know who I targeted on N0 and I know what my action does, but none of you have any reason to trust me, so my lynching is inevitable. Either that, or the Mafia kills me. I'll vote for MF, because I have no idea how he managed to evade my block. Perhaps there is some sort of anti-roleblocker?
Well, I know who I targeted on N0 and I know what my action does, but none of you have any reason to trust me, so my lynching is inevitable. Either that, or the Mafia kills me. I'll vote for MF, because I have no idea how he managed to evade my block. Perhaps there is some sort of anti-roleblocker?
Eifie
oh man, good times.
- Pronoun
- she/her
Re: [D3] ASB Halloween Mafia
Well, with two people backing this up, I'm okay with going for Cynder.
Gzhoom, could you clarify these two things?
Well, with two people backing this up, I'm okay with going for Cynder.
Gzhoom, could you clarify these two things?
Sandstone-Shadow
A chickadee in love with the sky
- Pronoun
- she/her
Re: [D3] ASB Halloween Mafia
I'm not yet convinced that Cynder is mafia. There are multiple situations above that lead to Cynder being innocent - in fact, I think both Eifie and MF have said that the most likely result of these situations is that Cynder is innocent.
I'm also rather suspicious of the fact that MF says he successfully performed an N0 action but won't tell us what it is. Kratos tells us that MF targeted Keldeo, but with so much switching going on, I'm skeptical. Kratos makes a good argument, but it could also be a lie.
If I'm reading this right, RedneckPhoenix actually never revealed who he targeted on N0 and N1 - this only mentions who ILS targeted, but as far as I can tell, everyone else took this as RedneckPhoenix's targets.
I'm not yet convinced that Cynder is mafia. There are multiple situations above that lead to Cynder being innocent - in fact, I think both Eifie and MF have said that the most likely result of these situations is that Cynder is innocent.
I'm also rather suspicious of the fact that MF says he successfully performed an N0 action but won't tell us what it is. Kratos tells us that MF targeted Keldeo, but with so much switching going on, I'm skeptical. Kratos makes a good argument, but it could also be a lie.
If I'm reading this right, RedneckPhoenix actually never revealed who he targeted on N0 and N1 - this only mentions who ILS targeted, but as far as I can tell, everyone else took this as RedneckPhoenix's targets.
Eifie
oh man, good times.
- Pronoun
- she/her
Re: [D3] ASB Halloween Mafia
We know who was switched, though. On N0 I redirected ZM to Flora, and Gzhoom swapped you and himself. So I don't think the presence of swapping roles should be a factor affecting whether or not we think this is plausible.
He told us he targeted Flora N0, and Kratos N1.
We know who was switched, though. On N0 I redirected ZM to Flora, and Gzhoom swapped you and himself. So I don't think the presence of swapping roles should be a factor affecting whether or not we think this is plausible.
He told us he targeted Flora N0, and Kratos N1.
Phoenixsong
beep beep coming through
- Pronoun
- she/they/any
Re: [D2] ASB Halloween Mafia
Actually, RedneckPhoenix clarified that he jailed MF N1 and had made a mistake when he said he'd targeted me. As far as I'm aware all of my actions have gone through, although I don't know how different Negrek's response to me would be if I were blocked vs. my target just not acting. Maybe they'd look the same and I wouldn't know that the negative result meant someone had stopped my action. Still, though, pretty sure MF was RP's actual second target.
I agree that it's possible ILS got an innocent result that may have ultimately been from Cynder, which is why I'm more than happy to change my vote if someone else can clarify, but right now he's a more likely candidate than MF or someone else and I'd like to make sure we get something done rather than nothing! Holding up Cynder as investigated-as-innocent can only really be done if we know the action resolution order, and again, Negrek may well not confirm that until the game's over, so we can't count on it. It's also possible that he's a scum role with a misleading investigation result, for example. Some games I've seen even have the mafia don investigate innocent (they've got the connections to make themselves look clean, I suppose), although I don't think that's too common on TCoD so I'm not really banking on that specifically being the case.
Keldeo may or may not want to clarify whether they know if MF could've done something harmful to them N0, but they may not have any idea, and they may also not want to reveal if they do know and whatever MF did was positive. I can certainly think of several reasons MF would want to be quiet about what his action was for his own safety while still being town. I'd give him a chance to respond first before being too suspicious about him not volunteering that info, and if he continues to be evasive about it, then yeah, maybe not coming out in full might look kinda shady. Not that worried about it right now, though.
Actually, RedneckPhoenix clarified that he jailed MF N1 and had made a mistake when he said he'd targeted me. As far as I'm aware all of my actions have gone through, although I don't know how different Negrek's response to me would be if I were blocked vs. my target just not acting. Maybe they'd look the same and I wouldn't know that the negative result meant someone had stopped my action. Still, though, pretty sure MF was RP's actual second target.
I agree that it's possible ILS got an innocent result that may have ultimately been from Cynder, which is why I'm more than happy to change my vote if someone else can clarify, but right now he's a more likely candidate than MF or someone else and I'd like to make sure we get something done rather than nothing! Holding up Cynder as investigated-as-innocent can only really be done if we know the action resolution order, and again, Negrek may well not confirm that until the game's over, so we can't count on it. It's also possible that he's a scum role with a misleading investigation result, for example. Some games I've seen even have the mafia don investigate innocent (they've got the connections to make themselves look clean, I suppose), although I don't think that's too common on TCoD so I'm not really banking on that specifically being the case.
Keldeo may or may not want to clarify whether they know if MF could've done something harmful to them N0, but they may not have any idea, and they may also not want to reveal if they do know and whatever MF did was positive. I can certainly think of several reasons MF would want to be quiet about what his action was for his own safety while still being town. I'd give him a chance to respond first before being too suspicious about him not volunteering that info, and if he continues to be evasive about it, then yeah, maybe not coming out in full might look kinda shady. Not that worried about it right now, though.
Re: [D3] ASB Halloween Mafia
Night actions take place in a fixed order that proceeds the same every night. The order itself will be revealed at the end of the game along with role PM's, etc.