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  #201  
Old 10-13-2009, 02:00 AM
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Default Re: Twilight

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But really, out of all the things you can judge the book by, this definitely isn't one to count. It's a interpretation of how she wants the vampires to be, no problem really. Some people, like a lot of the people here, hate the idea of "vampire's sparkling in the sun", while others think it's kinda of cool. It's totally an opinion. If you don't like it, that's your problem, you can't downgrade the book because of it.
Mmm, but Butterfree did point out that it's silly. It's something that's supposed to work but doesn't--it's supposed to be all amazing and romantic and awesome that vampires sparkle in the sunlight, but instead of being cool and dramatic the scene in the field where Edward starts sparkling comes off as "pfft ahaha that's so ridiculous." (To most people, I suppose I should qualify.)

It's not really a great reason to chuck out the entire book, no (there are plenty of others), but downgrade it? Yeah. It's a symptom of larger problems with the writing/story itself, and it's something that just doesn't work about the book. I can understand being annoyed with how much people latch onto that one aspect, but that doesn't mean that it isn't a valid complaint (albeit a bit trivial).
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  #202  
Old 10-13-2009, 02:24 PM
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Default Re: Twilight

I think what annoys me particularly about the 'vampires don't sparkle' thing is that people who have never even read twilight use it to bash the book and make themselves sound like they're 'hardcore vampires' when in fact they probably don't even know what they're talking about (or what relevance it actually has to the book).

I mean yeah it is a pretty stupid reason to keep Ed & pals out of the sun, but honestly there's so much more wrong with it. The sparkly part is one of the most superficially dumb things about the book.
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  #203  
Old 10-13-2009, 06:14 PM
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Default Re: Twilight

I think it's really only the word 'sparkly' that looks silly. Seems Meyer tried to make it seem more romantic/weird in a romantic way or whatever by making him 'shine'. She had to do SOMETHING about the sun vrs. vampires thing, and since the sun destroying them would be too hard to write or whatever, it's not too hard to imagine why she chose something a little... more low-key.

If she had made it seem like, really strange or something, rather than 'gosh you sparkle... how dramatically attractive' then it would have been fine, interesting even. But then, that's only where I like the Twilight series -- what it could have been.
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  #204  
Old 10-13-2009, 06:22 PM
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Default Re: Twilight

Twilight could have been much better than it is, and it's not very good at all as-is. I still like it, though. I don't think it's good by any stretch of the imagination but it's mindless shit that kept me entertained for the week it took me to read the entire series (online and for free, of course).
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  #205  
Old 10-13-2009, 06:42 PM
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Default Re: Twilight

It could only have been good if it acknowledged how fucked up their relationship is and presented it as such. You know, instead of "look! this is what every girl should strive for!", you have "so this is a fucked up relationship try not to get into one". Realistic characterisation and all that.

Except the writing would still be terrible, so um.
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  #206  
Old 10-13-2009, 07:06 PM
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Default Re: Twilight

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Originally Posted by opaltiger View Post
It could only have been good if it acknowledged how fucked up their relationship is and presented it as such. You know, instead of "look! this is what every girl should strive for!", you have "so this is a fucked up relationship try not to get into one". Realistic characterisation and all that.

Except the writing would still be terrible, so um.
Yes.

I was reading it, and just thinking, if my personal interpretation is right, then this book is pretty cool! And then I just kept reading and realised, no. :/ And then I watched/read interviews with Meyer and just... yeah, no.

If the books had been written by somebody else, and had just... not taken itself so seriously. The books have no life whatsoever. The writing is just like every description of Forks Meyer wrote.
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  #207  
Old 10-13-2009, 07:32 PM
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Default Re: Twilight

If you're interested, Meyer answered the question 'Is Bella an anti-feminist heroine?' on her website:

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When I hear or read theories about Bella being an anti-feminist character, those theories are usually predicated on her choices. In the beginning, she chooses romantic love over everything else. Eventually, she chooses to marry at an early age and then chooses to keep an unexpected and dangerous baby. I never meant for her fictional choices to be a model for anyone else's real life choices. She is a character in a story, nothing more or less. On top of that, this is not even realistic fiction, it's a fantasy with vampires and werewolves, so no one could ever make her exact choices. Bella chooses things differently than how I would do it if I were in her shoes, because she is a very different type of person than I am. Also, she's in a situation that none of us has ever been in, because she lives in a fantasy world. But do her choices make her a negative example of empowerment? For myself personally, I don't think so.

In my own opinion (key word), the foundation of feminism is this: being able to choose. The core of anti-feminism is, conversely, telling a woman she can't do something solely because she's a woman—taking any choice away from her specifically because of her gender. "You can't be an astronaut, because you're a woman. You can't be president because you're a woman. You can't run a company because you're a woman." All of those oppressive "can't"s.

One of the weird things about modern feminism is that some feminists seem to be putting their own limits on women's choices. That feels backward to me. It's as if you can't choose a family on your own terms and still be considered a strong woman. How is that empowering? Are there rules about if, when, and how we love or marry and if, when, and how we have kids? Are there jobs we can and can't have in order to be a "real" feminist? To me, those limitations seem anti-feminist in basic principle.

Do I think eighteen is a good age at which to get married? Personally—as in, for the person I was at eighteen—no. However, Bella is constrained by fantastic circumstances that I never had to deal with. The person she loves is physically seventeen, and he's not going to change. If she and he are going to be on a healthy relationship footing, she can't age too far beyond him. Also, marriage is really an insignificant commitment compared to giving up your mortality, so it's funny to me that some people are hung up on one and not the other. Is eighteen too young to give up your mortality? For me, any age is too young for that. For Bella, it was what she really wanted for her life, and it wasn't a phase she was going to grow out of. So I don't have issues with her choice. She's a strong person who goes after what she wants with persistence and determination.
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  #208  
Old 10-13-2009, 07:45 PM
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Default Re: Twilight

out of curiosity why did Edward stop aging at seventeen to begin with?
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  #209  
Old 10-13-2009, 07:49 PM
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Default Re: Twilight

Because he was turned into a vampire?

Also she seems to have missed the key point, that being that Bella is unable to do anything by herself.
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  #210  
Old 10-13-2009, 08:16 PM
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Default Re: Twilight

Yeah. Bella has major problems, not least of which is that she kind of sucks as a character. It's worse with the peripherals, too.

Edward has no life except in relation to Bella. The Twilight books could have been brilliant but they ... weren't.

Meyer's writing itself limits them but then there's the awful characterisation and the lameness of her characters.
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  #211  
Old 11-05-2009, 05:15 AM
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Default Re: Twilight

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Originally Posted by opaltiger View Post
It could only have been good if it acknowledged how fucked up their relationship is and presented it as such. You know, instead of "look! this is what every girl should strive for!", you have "so this is a fucked up relationship try not to get into one". Realistic characterisation and all that.

Except the writing would still be terrible, so um.
Do you really expect a first person narrator to realize that? I don't think so. :/
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  #212  
Old 11-05-2009, 08:32 AM
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Default Re: Twilight

I don't think he means having Bella consciously acknowledge it. There are other ways to imply something is bad than to have the narrator spell it out.
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  #213  
Old 11-05-2009, 01:53 PM
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Default Re: Twilight

I find it sad that all my school friends like Twilight... And, everyone was like "OMG are you going to see New Moon??? Jacob/Edward is so hawt/awesome!" And I quite literally headtable. I read up to New Moon.

Things I hate about the series:

-The vampires sparkle.

-The writing style is so choppy and... it's like she just uses complicated/long words that you have to look up to know the meaning of the try and make it better. Also metaphor fail.

-All the characters are perfect, have NO flaws whatsoever. ;[ And fans at my school are like, "But Bella faints at the sight/smell of blood!!" that is not a HUGE flaw, and it's one of very few that actually have no relevance whatsoever to the story... Now if that actually kept her and Edward from being together, then i actually might consider it.

-Edward and Bella's unhealthy relationship, etc. it's that over used forbidden love shit. it cannot be, should not be, and could not be.

-Little to no plot whatsoever. i don't see why it was made into a series, i just DON'T. It would have been better to stomach for me if it had been a stand-alone book.....

-Once you bring werewolves into the equation, it ruins it even more because now Bella's even more mary-sueish because they are fighting over her. (last time I checked; never bothered to reread it, stuffed the books in the attic to gather dust.)

What i like about it:

-it has vampires in it


Hm, and the actor that played Edward ridiculed Twilight, is that saying something here, folks~? :]

I after reading up to new Moon, I put down the series.... And tried to find a vampire novel that was not infected with influences by Twilight, and came across the House of Night series. House of Night >>> Twilight. i recommend it if you need a mindsoap.

But yeah, I may look down upon rabid fans of it (meaning: don't respect opinions and constantly swoon over character x like there's nothing else to talk about even when someone asks them the shut the hell up), but if you like it that's fine with me. Some people just need to find better things to talk about...... *pokes everyone at her school*
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  #214  
Old 11-05-2009, 04:29 PM
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Default Re: Twilight

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And tried to find a vampire novel that was not infected with influences by Twilight
Fevre Dream. Best vampire novel.
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  #215  
Old 11-05-2009, 04:53 PM
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Default Re: Twilight

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And tried to find a vampire novel that was not infected with influences by Twilight,
Bram Stoker's Dracula?

Seriously, it's old but still good.
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  #216  
Old 11-05-2009, 09:29 PM
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Default Re: Twilight

Honestly, I'm inclined to believe Twilight is the one being influenced.

By horrible fanfiction.net vampire yaoi.
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