The Cave of Dragonflies forums

Go Back   The Cave of Dragonflies forums > Non-Pokémon > The Laughing Cupboard

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #21  
Old 06-26-2011, 04:15 PM
Michi's Avatar
Michi Michi is offline
Mystical Furball
 
Join Date: June 10, 2010
Location: Iowa, USA
Age: 23
Posts: 353
Pronoun: any
Michi is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Gay Marriage Legalized in NY

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvyren View Post
This is exactly the sort of thing I hate. The fight against heteronormality isn't exclusive to cisgendered gays and lesbians.
Nobody said that the proposed shirts should be exclusive to cisgender people. The case he was referring to would be if gays and lesbians (the people primarily affected by the recent vote) were to wear said shirts. I'm sure he didn't mean to exclude anyone.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 06-26-2011, 04:27 PM
AdrianeMOD Adriane is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: June 26, 2008
Location: Aiken, South Carolina
Age: 28
Posts: 1,913
Pronoun: she
Adriane is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Gay Marriage Legalized in NY

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aobaru View Post
Wait, how is "I <3 NY...and so does my boyfriend" offensive exactly? o.o
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karkat Vantas View Post
I'm perplexed as to why you find a burst of gay pride after the passing of a same-sex marriage bill to be insulting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volcarona View Post
Nobody said that the proposed shirts should be exclusive to cisgender people. The case he was referring to would be if gays and lesbians (the people primarily affected by the recent vote) were to wear said shirts. I'm sure he didn't mean to exclude anyone.
Miss, miss, and miss again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashton Van Helsing
The new "I <3 NY" shirt should read "I <3 NY...and so does my boyfriend" and exchange "boyfriend" for "girlfriend" if it's in women's sizes.
I would seriously hope the queer community can identify inhibitors like these that perpetuate the fixed gender binary.
__________________
Hi! I'm currently in the process of moving and my internet access is rather sporadic! Please forgive me, especially those in my #mafia game! Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 06-26-2011, 05:16 PM
Zeph's Avatar
Zeph Zeph is offline
Anything but unremarkable
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Sheffield, UK
Age: 25
Posts: 3,619
Pronoun: he
Zeph is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Gay Marriage Legalized in NY

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvyren View Post
Quote:
The new "I <3 NY" shirt should read "I <3 NY...and so does my boyfriend" and exchange "boyfriend" for "girlfriend" if it's in women's sizes.
I would seriously hope the queer community can identify inhibitors like these that perpetuate the fixed gender binary.
Well yeah, but the idea was that these shirts would be catered for homosexual couples who can marry from now on. A woman wearing a shirt saying "I <3 NY and so does my boyfriend" (or the opposite) would in no way imply that that they <3 NY because of gay marriage's legalisation there. A MAN wearing such a shirt (Or a woman wearing a girlfriend one), however, would imply such.

If I've missed your point and you're talking about non-binary couples, then the point still stands of whoever it was who said that shirts made for trans couples would have a really, really small audience.

Anyway, hooray for the increasing rapid progress of America! Well done, you country, you.
__________________
||||||||||||
Farroh v4
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 06-26-2011, 05:34 PM
AdrianeMOD Adriane is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: June 26, 2008
Location: Aiken, South Carolina
Age: 28
Posts: 1,913
Pronoun: she
Adriane is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Gay Marriage Legalized in NY

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zephyrous Castform View Post
If I've missed your point and you're talking about non-binary couples, then the point still stands of whoever it was who said that shirts made for trans couples would have a really, really small audience.
So you're instead satisfied with the capitalising of the bill? Either way, it's the mindset I have an issue with. You can't just go and add hypotheticals on top of hypotheticals when the notion of the first hypothetical was "this would be neat" rather than "this is going to happen".
__________________
Hi! I'm currently in the process of moving and my internet access is rather sporadic! Please forgive me, especially those in my #mafia game! Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 06-26-2011, 06:29 PM
Zeph's Avatar
Zeph Zeph is offline
Anything but unremarkable
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Sheffield, UK
Age: 25
Posts: 3,619
Pronoun: he
Zeph is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Gay Marriage Legalized in NY

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvyren View Post
So you're instead satisfied with the capitalising of the bill? Either way, it's the mindset I have an issue with. You can't just go and add hypotheticals on top of hypotheticals when the notion of the first hypothetical was "this would be neat" rather than "this is going to happen".
Well no, that wasn't my point; while I'm all for the breaking of the gender binary and such, I just don't see how the proposed T-shirts were offensive to trans couples. I mean, what would you suggest they should say instead/trans-tailored shirts should say? "I <3 NY and so does my partner?" Again, that doesn't really carry the intended connotation.

Besides, I'm pretty sure that the whole T-shirts thing was pretty much a joke in the first place anyway.
__________________
||||||||||||
Farroh v4
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 06-26-2011, 06:31 PM
AdrianeMOD Adriane is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: June 26, 2008
Location: Aiken, South Carolina
Age: 28
Posts: 1,913
Pronoun: she
Adriane is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Gay Marriage Legalized in NY

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zephyrous Castform View Post
Besides, I'm pretty sure that the whole T-shirts thing was pretty much a joke in the first place anyway.
Ohh, a joke! Well, pardon me! That just excuses just about everything, doesn't it? How nice it is to be able to dismiss everything at a whim by merely joking about it.
__________________
Hi! I'm currently in the process of moving and my internet access is rather sporadic! Please forgive me, especially those in my #mafia game! Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 06-26-2011, 06:51 PM
Zeph's Avatar
Zeph Zeph is offline
Anything but unremarkable
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Sheffield, UK
Age: 25
Posts: 3,619
Pronoun: he
Zeph is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Gay Marriage Legalized in NY

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvyren View Post
Ohh, a joke! Well, pardon me! That just excuses just about everything, doesn't it? How nice it is to be able to dismiss everything at a whim by merely joking about it.
Wait what? My point was that whoever it was who originally said the thing about the T-shirts, whoever it was, I can't be bothered to check, was not being serious about it, and so was evidently not going to go particularly deep into it and say "Oh and there should be 'And so does my trans partner' ones too". Kindly don't be superiorly sarcastic like that, it doesn't help your argument.
__________________
||||||||||||
Farroh v4
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 06-26-2011, 06:59 PM
AdrianeMOD Adriane is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: June 26, 2008
Location: Aiken, South Carolina
Age: 28
Posts: 1,913
Pronoun: she
Adriane is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Gay Marriage Legalized in NY

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zephyrous Castform View Post
Wait what? My point was that whoever it was who originally said the thing about the T-shirts, whoever it was, I can't be bothered to check, was not being serious about it, and so was evidently not going to go particularly deep into it and say "Oh and there should be 'And so does my trans partner' ones too". Kindly don't be superiorly sarcastic like that, it doesn't help your argument.
You are missing my point entirely, and I am being serious. A relationship between a cis man and a trans man is still a gay relationship. This seems to slip under the radar for way too many people. Please don't interject if you're going to just ignore what I'm actually saying because that doesn't help your argument any.
__________________
Hi! I'm currently in the process of moving and my internet access is rather sporadic! Please forgive me, especially those in my #mafia game! Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 06-26-2011, 07:13 PM
Aobaru's Avatar
Aobaru Aobaru is offline
Floooooon!
 
Join Date: June 26, 2008
Location: South Carolina
Age: 24
Posts: 612
Pronoun: he
Aobaru is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via Skype™ to Aobaru
Default Re: Gay Marriage Legalized in NY

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvyren View Post
I would seriously hope the queer community can identify inhibitors like these that perpetuate the fixed gender binary.
Okay, so what you're saying is that the "I <3 NY... and so does my boyfriend/girlfriend" shirt should be available in both men's and women's sizes? Or am I still missing the point?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 06-26-2011, 07:26 PM
shy ♡'s Avatar
shy ♡ shy ♡ is offline
whispers in gay
 
Join Date: July 4, 2010
Posts: 2,548
Pronoun: he/him
shy ♡ is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Gay Marriage Legalized in NY

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aobaru View Post
Okay, so what you're saying is that the "I <3 NY... and so does my boyfriend/girlfriend" shirt should be available in both men's and women's sizes? Or am I still missing the point?
Yep, that's what ve's saying.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 06-26-2011, 07:36 PM
Eloi's Avatar
Eloi Eloi is offline
Metapod
 
Join Date: January 14, 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 504
Pronoun: She
Eloi is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Gay Marriage Legalized in NY

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvyren View Post
You are missing my point entirely, and I am being serious. A relationship between a cis man and a trans man is still a gay relationship. This seems to slip under the radar for way too many people. Please don't interject if you're going to just ignore what I'm actually saying because that doesn't help your argument any.
One question: What do you want them to say instead?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 06-26-2011, 07:40 PM
Karkat Vantas's Avatar
Karkat Vantas Karkat Vantas is offline
Virile God-Snake Tower of Masculinity
 
Join Date: June 26, 2009
Location: New York
Age: 22
Posts: 3,525
Pronoun: He
Karkat Vantas is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via MSN to Karkat Vantas Send a message via Skype™ to Karkat Vantas
Default Re: Gay Marriage Legalized in NY

Why not just make them unisex shirts?
__________________


ALL I SEE IS BLOOD
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 06-26-2011, 07:41 PM
Tailsy's Avatar
TailsyMOD Tailsy is offline
if the nineth lion ate the sun.
 
Join Date: June 23, 2008
Location: scotland
Age: 27
Posts: 4,314
Pronoun: she
Tailsy is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Gay Marriage Legalized in NY

Unisex shirts are baggy and they fit really badly! Why would I want to wear that?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 06-26-2011, 07:42 PM
Eloi's Avatar
Eloi Eloi is offline
Metapod
 
Join Date: January 14, 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 504
Pronoun: She
Eloi is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Gay Marriage Legalized in NY

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karkat Vantas View Post
Why not just make them unisex shirts?
Because it defeats the point, which is explicit support for a same-gender relationship.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 06-26-2011, 07:51 PM
AdrianeMOD Adriane is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: June 26, 2008
Location: Aiken, South Carolina
Age: 28
Posts: 1,913
Pronoun: she
Adriane is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Gay Marriage Legalized in NY

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eloi View Post
One question: What do you want them to say instead?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eloi View Post
Because it defeats the point, which is explicit support for a same-gender relationship.
Have you not read a thing I've said this entire thread? Also please stop equating sex and gender because they're not the same.
__________________
Hi! I'm currently in the process of moving and my internet access is rather sporadic! Please forgive me, especially those in my #mafia game! Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 06-26-2011, 07:57 PM
Karkat Vantas's Avatar
Karkat Vantas Karkat Vantas is offline
Virile God-Snake Tower of Masculinity
 
Join Date: June 26, 2009
Location: New York
Age: 22
Posts: 3,525
Pronoun: He
Karkat Vantas is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via MSN to Karkat Vantas Send a message via Skype™ to Karkat Vantas
Default Re: Gay Marriage Legalized in NY

Quote:
Originally Posted by surskitty View Post
Unisex shirts are baggy and they fit really badly! Why would I want to wear that?
Baggy clothes are awesome, silly!

scraggy

Exhibit A
__________________


ALL I SEE IS BLOOD
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 06-26-2011, 08:06 PM
Eloi's Avatar
Eloi Eloi is offline
Metapod
 
Join Date: January 14, 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 504
Pronoun: She
Eloi is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Gay Marriage Legalized in NY

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvyren View Post
Have you not read a thing I've said this entire thread?
I have read everything you have said, I just don't understand your arguments.

Quote:
Also please stop equating sex and gender because they're not the same.
I know of these differences, I am not sure where the implication was that I didn't. A same-sex relationship would be a trans man and a cis woman getting together. A same-gender relationship would be a trans man and a cis man getting together.

But mainly my point is:
a) There already exists these shirts for opposite-gender (and presumably sex) couples.
b) Shirts for same-gender couples don't exist.
c) Hence, they should be made, but they might not be if you protest them under the grounds of it being unfair to gender-variant/deconstructionist people because same-gender couple-affirming people would be more likely to care en masse.
d) Hence, only the shirts for opposite-gender (and presumably sex) couples would exist because they aren't likely to give a crap about the opinions about gender-fluid people en masse.
__________________

Last edited by Eloi; 06-26-2011 at 08:50 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 06-26-2011, 08:43 PM
shy ♡'s Avatar
shy ♡ shy ♡ is offline
whispers in gay
 
Join Date: July 4, 2010
Posts: 2,548
Pronoun: he/him
shy ♡ is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Gay Marriage Legalized in NY

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eloi View Post
I know of these differences, I am not sure where the implication was that I didn't. A same-sex relationship would be a trans man and a cis woman getting together. A same-gender relationship would be a trans man and a cis man getting together.
Nnnoooo. A cis person still has a gender. It just happens to co-align with the gender they were assigned at birth. Two cis people dating, of the same gender, are still a same-gender couple. Sex is pretty much irrelevant, other than being a physical marker.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 06-26-2011, 08:45 PM
Eloi's Avatar
Eloi Eloi is offline
Metapod
 
Join Date: January 14, 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 504
Pronoun: She
Eloi is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Gay Marriage Legalized in NY

Quote:
Originally Posted by pathos View Post
Nnnoooo. A cis person still has a gender. It just happens to co-align with the gender they were assigned at birth. Two cis people dating, of the same gender, are still a same-gender couple. Sex is pretty much irrelevant, other than being a physical marker.
Yes, I know. That's what I was trying to demonstrate. Seriously guys, I know (and care about) this stuff.
__________________

Last edited by Eloi; 06-26-2011 at 09:01 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 06-26-2011, 09:03 PM
Jolty's Avatar
Jolty Jolty is offline
FOR THE YARD!!!!
 
Join Date: June 24, 2008
Location: Driftveil City
Age: 27
Posts: 1,547
Pronoun: He
Jolty is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Gay Marriage Legalized in NY

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eloi View Post
A same-sex relationship would be a trans man and a cis woman getting together. A same-gender relationship would be a trans man and a cis man getting together.
this is bollocks
my girlfriend and I are in an opposite-sex relationship
the fact that I possess two x chromosomes does not change that

when you're talking about sex and gender in this context, they're the same, surely????
__________________
persian-alolasandshrew-alola
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
lgbt, quiltbag

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Pokémon, Pikachu and all other Pokémon characters © Nintendo, Game Freak and Creatures Inc. The Cave of Dragonflies, content, styles, etc. © Butterfree/Dragonfree/antialiasis.
Forum now hosted by Eevee's HQ.