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  #121  
Old 02-12-2015, 12:36 AM
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Default Re: Suggestion Box

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Originally Posted by surskitty View Post
Could the Lucky Egg be changed to double sendout exp rather than KO exp? The difference between 1 exp and 3 is kind of large and given that this is a fairly slow game, the difference between 'evolving' and 'not evolving' for exp-based pokemon is stark and stressful, and you're losing the hold item slot either way.

The thing I like about the Soothe Bell is that it makes it a lot easier to not actually get invested in winning or losing, and instead I just try to have a good time, but there's currently no way to do that with exp-based evolutions.
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Originally Posted by Metallica Fanboy View Post
I'm not sure why it doesn't already work that way, actually...
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Originally Posted by Metallica Fanboy View Post
True enough, basing it on sendout experience also prevents the amount of exp gained from multiple knockouts from becoming excessive. All the more reason to change it up.
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Originally Posted by Meursault View Post
I was originally kind of ehhh toward the idea but upon further consideration of the fact that I'm planning to get a Larvesta: all for it
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Originally Posted by Zhorken View Post
Looks like this idea is go then. I went ahead and changed it. I guess I should go back and see what else people agreed was a good idea; I haven't really been keeping up with this thread, eheheh.
did ... did a radical change to exp rewards just get executed over 20min while I was eating with only echo-chamber support, what the hell

if changes (obviously wrong things excepted) are going to get made on that kind of timescale that kind of mildly wrecks the point of an open suggestion box

lucky egg mechanics is indeed borked but the 2 exp per KO thing makes 2v2 doubles an effective means of achieving 5-exp evolutions. given that exp basically does nothing other than officially boosting damage at 4 and 8 (... and tbh even I will admit it should probably stay that way), that is not at all broken.

if you're going to make that change you should also reduce basically all 5 exp evolutions to either 4 or 3 exp; most 4 exp evolutions also seem kind of excessive and should be dropped down to 3 exp.

until that's worked out, I strongly recommend revert.

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Originally Posted by Zhorken View Post
Regarding the Moon Stone: for the sake of getting something done here, I'm going to make an Official Ruling and go with the "Fairy damage and Normal energy" effect. It had the most support, and it balances the four criteria people seem to have: doing something for Fairy-types, doing something for Skitty, being simple, and being fairly similar to the current effect.
this is horrifyingly ill-conceived. it severely reduces the utility of the moon stone: the normal boost, while minor and kind of odd, was at least accessible and viable for every moon stone evolver; a fairy damage boost and normal energy reduction totally shafts the nidofamily and skitty and slightly munna since energy is largely inconsequential. even without that concern, it also just becomes weaker than every other evostone because getting +damage and -energy on the same move is better.

no contest that the association with normal is Wrong, but it makes little sense to change it to something which makes no more sense, is dead weight on half the pokémon which evolve with it, totally doesn't correspond with sun stone at all :((( symmetry gosh
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  #122  
Old 02-12-2015, 12:45 AM
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Default Re: Suggestion Box

... Also, while we're on stones, looking at the dawn/shiny/dusk stones:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawn
Raises moves' final damage by 2% as long as the holder has more than 66% health. Helps certain Pokémon evolve.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiny
Lowers incoming moves' accuracy by 5%. Helps certain Pokémon evolve.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusk
Raises damaging moves' final damage by 2% as long as the holder has 33% health or less. Helps certain Pokémon evolve.
They're basically a trio, but the shiny stone's effect is completely different. (And kind of obnoxious because accuracyhax. Accuracyhax is not fun.) Could we change shiny's effect to "Raises damaging moves' final damage by 2% as long as the holder is between 66% and 33% health." ? It has nice symmetry and fills in the missing effect.
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  #123  
Old 02-12-2015, 01:31 AM
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Default Re: Suggestion Box

it's 5% accuracyhax

I'm not sure that'd be necessary anyway -- the stones are from the same generation, but Dawn and Dusk are a clear pair, while Shiny isn't exactly connected.
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  #124  
Old 02-12-2015, 01:39 AM
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Default Re: Suggestion Box

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Originally Posted by Mai View Post
;_;

Splitting the effect makes it a lot less useful, though, since you can't get both the damage and energy benefits at the same time and generally there's very little reason to switch between the two types. Each stone as it is has basically one effect (+1%/-1% for a single type, lowering accuracy, raising all move's final damage): this may be "simple," but it still has two distinct ones that don't interact with each other at all. They're just random and... there. And really, fairy damage/normal energy? Fairy has almost no damaging attacks...

+1% damage/-1% energy for normal and moon moves, please. :( For fairy boosts, we can just add in the polkadot bow?

Or! Alternative idea that I just thought of and particularly like:

To parallel the sun stone, "Restores 1% of the user's health and energy after each action during no weather." Only 1% because no weather is the default state for most battles, but this is comparable with leftovers (+1% health after each action), slightly more expensive than it (and can be made more expensive if necessary, plus the item is consumed when you evolve something with it), and the benefits are preventable if weather is in place (which prevents it from being a strictly better leftovers if you want to spam weather-boosted moves - it allows your opponent to mess with the item while boosting their own weather-based moves). I like this idea a lot now, actually.
Thaaaat is true and I totally didn't think of it that way. Damn. I do love the weather thing... I'm gonna sit on it for a bit and probably go with either the weather thing, or old effect plus moon moves. (The Polka-Dot Bow is gonna be a thing either way.)



Quote:
Originally Posted by res
did ... did a radical change to exp rewards just get executed over 20min while I was eating with only echo-chamber support, what the hell

if changes (obviously wrong things excepted) are going to get made on that kind of timescale that kind of mildly wrecks the point of an open suggestion box

lucky egg mechanics is indeed borked but the 2 exp per KO thing makes 2v2 doubles an effective means of achieving 5-exp evolutions. given that exp basically does nothing other than officially boosting damage at 4 and 8 (... and tbh even I will admit it should probably stay that way), that is not at all broken.

if you're going to make that change you should also reduce basically all 5 exp evolutions to either 4 or 3 exp; most 4 exp evolutions also seem kind of excessive and should be dropped down to 3 exp.

until that's worked out, I strongly recommend revert.
I would hardly call this a radical change. It makes things a little easier if you're not the greatest battler. If you are a good battler, it will make no difference, unless you're in the habit of picking double battles against people who are below your level by a wide enough margin that you can micromanage your KOs, and like I said before, discouraging that is a good thing. I say this having done just that before — I have a Scolipede who has been in one (1) battle. In fact, iirc, that was the battle that prompted Negrek to change double battle exp from "both of your Pokémon get the exp if they're both still out" to "whoever actually scores the KO gets the exp".

5 exp is intentionally a high threshold for two-stagers; being able to achieve it in one battle is kind of ridiculous. You can still get it in two battles with at least one KO.

For another example, this new effect means that a 9-exp Pokémon will usually take three or four battles; five if you lose every single time. The old effect makes it three to nine, but also lets you get a Tyranitar in two if you cheese a couple of double battles, which is just as ridiculous. It also raises the stakes a bunch and, as surskitty said, that makes things a lot more stressful.

It's a small tweak and one of the elite refs on the team went "oh, yeah, that makes total sense, why doesn't it already work like that", and there's nothing stopping us from tweaking it again if someone brings up a good point like Mai just did. Why wouldn't I go ahead and change it? Giving every tweak heavy consideration sounds like a pain to me. We've taken several pages trying to hammer down the Moon Stone for crying out loud.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mai
... Also, while we're on stones, looking at the dawn/shiny/dusk stones:

They're basically a trio, but the shiny stone's effect is completely different. (And kind of obnoxious because accuracyhax. Accuracyhax is not fun.) Could we change shiny's effect to "Raises damaging moves' final damage by 2% as long as the holder is between 66% and 33% health." ? It has nice symmetry and fills in the missing effect.
Yeah I'm totally in favour of this. 5% accuracy hax is at the same time not that useful to the holder but totally aggravating to constantly deal with.

Last edited by Zhorken; 02-12-2015 at 01:48 AM.
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  #125  
Old 02-12-2015, 01:42 AM
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Default Re: Suggestion Box

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Originally Posted by Metallica Fanboy View Post
it's 5% accuracyhax

I'm not sure that'd be necessary anyway -- the stones are from the same generation, but Dawn and Dusk are a clear pair, while Shiny isn't exactly connected.
Shiny is the in-between time! The sun is shining from dawn until dusk!

Shiny is pretty clearly connected with the dusk stone, at least - in Japanese, dusk/shiny/dawn is actually dark/light/awakening. Plus, shiny and dusk both cause four pokemon to evolve, two retconned in evolutions, one from the fifth gen, and one from the sixth gen. Meanwhile, dawn does the gender-based evolutions of snorunt and kirlia. It's a bit weird, but it's easiest to count them as a trio. Minimal hax that way.

Also... bright powder already exists, for hax.
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  #126  
Old 02-12-2015, 01:50 AM
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Default Re: Suggestion Box

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mai View Post
Shiny is the in-between time! The sun is shining from dawn until dusk!

Shiny is pretty clearly connected with the dusk stone, at least - in Japanese, dusk/shiny/dawn is actually dark/light/awakening. Plus, shiny and dusk both cause four pokemon to evolve, two retconned in evolutions, one from the fifth gen, and one from the sixth gen. Meanwhile, dawn does the gender-based evolutions of snorunt and kirlia. It's a bit weird, but it's easiest to count them as a trio. Minimal hax that way.

Also... bright powder already exists, for hax.
... Oh, huh, so much time wasted spent nerding over original jp names in Pokémon and I never knew this. And yeah, I guess that's fair enough in regards to Bright Powder. So I guess I wouldn't really mind the change.
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  #127  
Old 02-12-2015, 03:29 AM
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Default Re: Suggestion Box

By analogy with the new lucky egg, can the soothe bell also give an extra point of happiness when sent out rather than just setting the minimum to two? That way if it scores KOs it gets another happiness point.
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  #128  
Old 02-12-2015, 03:44 AM
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HmmmMMMmmMMm I liked them being slightly different, flavour-wise, but I guess it doesn't make sense to leave the Zen Bell strictly worse. So, yeah, makes sense to me.

Last edited by Zhorken; 02-12-2015 at 04:15 AM.
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  #129  
Old 02-13-2015, 01:53 AM
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Default Re: Suggestion Box

Suggestion: Autotomize should cause a frame shift in speed or something rather than just a stat boost (so default +2, and it goes from -4 to +8); an alternative way of thinking about it is +20 (or whatever) base speed ŕ la light metal, since some refs assign different values to a stage of speed increase.

It's kind different from the other speed-raising moves and it only works once per battle, and its final effect is somewhat similar to light metal in flavour in that it has half the weight so it's faster. This isn't really something that you'd normally consider reversible.
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  #130  
Old 02-13-2015, 02:08 AM
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Default Re: Suggestion Box

You should put a thumbnail icon on the asb database. My bookmarks bar doesn't have any text, only icons, and the database's lack of one is the only thing stopping me from putting it there.
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  #131  
Old 02-13-2015, 02:33 AM
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Default Re: Suggestion Box

Quote:
Originally Posted by allitersonance View Post
Suggestion: Autotomize should cause a frame shift in speed or something rather than just a stat boost (so default +2, and it goes from -4 to +8); an alternative way of thinking about it is +20 (or whatever) base speed ŕ la light metal, since some refs assign different values to a stage of speed increase.

It's kind different from the other speed-raising moves and it only works once per battle, and its final effect is somewhat similar to light metal in flavour in that it has half the weight so it's faster. This isn't really something that you'd normally consider reversible.
In-game Autotomize actually works with regular stat stages, it's just the weight-changing part that's a single-time deal. You can use subsequent times in order to keep gaining Speed without continuing to lose weight. (which, granted, is nonsense...)
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  #132  
Old 02-13-2015, 02:37 AM
1. Luftballon 1. Luftballon is offline
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Default Re: Suggestion Box

everything with autotomize has rock polish except for skarmory (which has agility), and the honedge and vanillish lines. the later has icy wind, I guess? eh it's not a huge deal
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  #133  
Old 02-13-2015, 02:45 AM
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Regarding the ASB version my argument still applies. The one-time deal of autotomize makes more sense in ASB so that should still be kept and everything.
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  #134  
Old 02-13-2015, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Superbird View Post
You should put a thumbnail icon on the asb database. My bookmarks bar doesn't have any text, only icons, and the database's lack of one is the only thing stopping me from putting it there.
Eeee I'll make a tiny thumbnail :D

EDIT: Choose one!


Last edited by shy ♡; 02-13-2015 at 10:44 AM.
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  #135  
Old 02-14-2015, 12:58 AM
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Originally Posted by pathos View Post
Eeee I'll make a tiny thumbnail :D

EDIT: Choose one!

I think Volcarona would be most appropriate, given its place in the banner, or Ralts, being the single most common Pokémon in the league at the moment. (I vote Charizard out of those, though)
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  #136  
Old 02-14-2015, 01:00 AM
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When bachuru is a choice, it is always wrong to vote against it. I shall therefore make the correct vote.
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  #137  
Old 02-14-2015, 09:10 AM
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I think Volcarona would be most appropriate, given its place in the banner, or Ralts, being the single most common Pokémon in the league at the moment. (I vote Charizard out of those, though)
Volcarona didn't look good :c
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  #138  
Old 02-14-2015, 02:43 PM
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Also eventually you'll be able to change the banner a la style switcher or something, so.
I vote Joltik btw
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  #139  
Old 02-14-2015, 04:16 PM
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Default Re: Suggestion Box

Would anyone else support lowering the exp requirements for Slowbro's evolution? As of right now, it's straight up inferior to Slowking, which evolves in one battle for the same speed and movepool, and you can't plausibly get 4 exp in a similar timespan. Maybe change it to 2/3 exp or be out in battle against/alongside Shellder?
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  #140  
Old 02-14-2015, 04:44 PM
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If anyone was curious what a volcarona one would look like:

I agree, it's not ideal. For the record, my vote is with joltik as well.
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