HG/SS Zackrai's favourites

[Chief Zackrai]

Hey again, I was just thinking... and I made a team of my favorites pokemon.

[Humpfrey] Adamant, 252 attack, 252 Speed. Hyper Cutter @Expert Belt
Stealth Rock
Stone Edge
Earthquake
X-Scissor

My lead, basically one-hits anything thrown at it.

[Dexter] Jolly, 252 Attack 252 Speed. Sticky Hold @Black Sludge
Shadow Punch
Brick Break
Fire Punch
Explosion

... Bulky Muk is bulky? maybe I'm doing it wrong.

[The Doctor] Adamant, 252 Attack 252 Hp. Forewarn @Muscle Band
Ice Punch
Thunder Punch
Psycho Cut
Drain Punch/ Hypnosis/ other filler

Strangely, the punch master. Psycho Cut for STAB, and I really like Hypno.

[Tyson] Adamant, 252 Attack, 252 Speed. Poison Heal @Toxic Orb
Mach Punch
Spore
Seed Bomb
Superpower

For killing stuff. He is just great. Also for Blissey repellent.

[Mistress] Timid, 252 Speed, 252 HP. Pressure @Leftovers
Defend Order
Heal Order
Attack Order
Roost

Can anyone say "Stallin' Forever!"? Defend Order to the max, then Roost /and/ Heal Order for eternal life. Power Gem for lack of a better move.

[Vikter] Adamant 252 Attack, 252 Speed. Battle Armor @Life Orb
Rain Dance
Waterfall
X-Scissor
Stone Edge

Life Orb Kabutops. Weird moves, but I think it might work.

C&CC appreciated.

Edit: Oh! and something I noticed is I have no special attackers...

Other pokemon that are my favorites:

(wouldn't his just fix everything)

So, suggestions for that. Kabutops would be able to go.

 

[Superbird]

*nevermind, the forum likes wrapping URL tags around things I don't want URL tags around*

I'd like to see how I fare against Muk, actually.

 

[Chief Zackrai]

... what's with the link? I don't get it.

 

[Superbird]

I did NOT mean to make that a link. Why did it make itself a link...?

 

[Chief Zackrai]

Muk. Is. Awesome.

 

[1. Luftballon]

SD gliscor deals with half your team fairly well. it sets up on just about anything other than breloom.

one-off resist berries are no good for a wall. you'd probably be better off with attack order anyway. either way, still dies to two stone edges.

aerial ace is terrible on kabutops. STAB waterfall does more than SE AA. go with return for np-coverage. night slash is then mostly unnecessary.

 

[Chief Zackrai]

I have two questions for that.

For Vespiquen: I used Power Gem over Attack order because She has a better Sp. Attack stat... wait, no. I just checked Veekun... Okay, never mind.

For Kabutops: I put Night Slash on him so that I could have another pokemon that fights pure ghost-types. Other than him I have Muk. I'm wondering how Night Slash is unnecessary.

 

[Lord of the Fireflies]

stone edge on kabutops, muk is better with max hp and adamant instead on jolly with max speed (thing is aslow anyways, also you might want to use Gunk shot because with stab you get a 180 power move, which is exactly three times the power of shadow punch).

Also replace vepiquen with togekiss.

 

[1. Luftballon]

I have two questions for that.

For Vespiquen: I used Power Gem over Attack order because She has a better Sp. Attack stat... wait, no. I just checked Veekun... Okay, never mind.

For Kabutops: I put Night Slash on him so that I could have another pokemon that fights pure ghost-types. Other than him I have Muk. I'm wondering how Night Slash is unnecessary.

for vespequen: STAB base 90 is higher than base 70 in any case when you're not investing, and your stats aren't horribly lopsided. twice as much, almost!

for kabutops: STAB waterfall is base 120 damage. SE night slash is 140 base damage. this is only a 17% increase in damage, which is not worth a move slot. stone edge would be 150 base damage at 80% accuracy (ABP 120) or swords dance depending on how long you manage to survive. rain dance could be worth it for effective BP 180 and doubled speed on whatever it does.

muk! muk wants wither poison jab or gunk shot, yes. I'd say go with gunk shot because muk can afford a miss, and it has ABP 84 vs 80. Poison/Fire/Fighting I think covers most things; Poison/Normal/Fighting works too for more power with return.

 

[Chief Zackrai]

for kabutops: STAB waterfall is base 120 damage. SE night slash is 140 base damage. this is only a 17% increase in damage, which is not worth a move slot. stone edge would be 150 base damage at 80% accuracy (ABP 120) or swords dance depending on how long you manage to survive. rain dance could be worth it for effective BP 180 and doubled speed on whatever it does.

Mmm... interesting. I'd still like to keep Night Slash on him though... What if I ditched Aqua Jet and Return, and went Waterfall/ Rain Dance/ Stone Edge/ Night Slash? I could work with that, maybe make him Jolly with lots o' Speed IVs.

muk! muk wants wither poison jab or gunk shot, yes. I'd say go with gunk shot because muk can afford a miss, and it has ABP 84 vs 80. Poison/Fire/Fighting I think covers most things; Poison/Normal/Fighting works too for more power with return.

Nyeh... I really need him to know Shadow Punch, especially If I ditch Night Slash on Kabutops, or I'll have no way to combat pure Ghost-types effectively... I guess Explosion could go, but I like being able to throw in a nice "GTFO" occasionally. I'll think about it.

@Cosmic Blueberry: Interesting about Muk, I'll have to test it (go shoddy!), but I do like to take the bad stats of pokemon and make them alright...

Oh. And Vespiquen. Stays.

 

[1. Luftballon]

Mmm... interesting. I'd still like to keep Night Slash on him though... What if I ditched Aqua Jet and Return, and went Waterfall/ Rain Dance/ Stone Edge/ Night Slash? I could work with that, maybe make him Jolly with lots o' Speed IVs.

no. +1 STAB waterfall is effective base 180. SE night slash is effective base 140. 180 > 140.

Nyeh... I really need him to know Shadow Punch, especially If I ditch Night Slash on Kabutops, or I'll have no way to combat pure Ghost-types effectively... I guess Explosion could go, but I like being able to throw in a nice "GTFO" occasionally. I'll think about it.

eh, you have nothing better for ghosts there, but. that's still suboptimal against everything else.

I don't think you understand something: it doesn't matter whether something is super-effective unless you're trying to hit a particular mark. most of the time, you're wasting your effort on things that won't come up. plenty of the time, it won't help anyway. general power is better unless you have a benchmark. this is why STAB matters.

 

[Chief Zackrai]

no. +1 STAB waterfall is effective base 180. SE night slash is effective base 140. 180 > 140.

So wait... why can't I have both? Sure brute force, but why can't I have 180 and 140? Out of curiosity, of course. I mean if I've got Waterfall and Stone Edge, and if Dark gets better coverage than Normal, why can't I have Night Slash? Plus, it's got that crit modifier... I'm not sure why you're denying it at every turn is what I'm getting at here.

I don't think you understand something: it doesn't matter whether something is super-effective unless you're trying to hit a particular mark. most of the time, you're wasting your effort on things that won't come up. plenty of the time, it won't help anyway. general power is better unless you have a benchmark. this is why STAB matters.

Pure ghosts-types not being a mark? I'm not trying to be stubborn, but you seem to be contradicting yourself a smidge here. (the way I'm getting it, anyway)

disregarding the above, I think you may be right; I do spend much of my time considering the "but if their Cradilly knows Sludge Bomb" clause, by which I expect the unexpected. Because, who uses Cradilly out of sandstorm or rock teams? I'm rambling now.

 

[JackPK]

So wait... why can't I have both? Sure brute force, but why can't I have 180 and 140? Out of curiosity, of course. I mean if I've got Waterfall and Stone Edge, and if Dark gets better coverage than Normal, why can't I have Night Slash? Plus, it's got that crit modifier... I'm not sure why you're denying it at every turn is what I'm getting at here.



Pure ghosts-types not being a mark? I'm not trying to be stubborn, but you seem to be contradicting yourself a smidge here. (the way I'm getting it, anyway)

disregarding the above, I think you may be right; I do spend much of my time considering the "but if their Cradilly knows Sludge Bomb" clause, by which I expect the unexpected. Because, who uses Cradilly out of sandstorm or rock teams? I'm rambling now.

I think res is trying to say that if your only reason for keeping Night Slash is to use against pure Ghost-types, that's counterintuitive, because STAB Waterfall against pure Ghost-types does more damage than unSTAB super-effective Night Slash against pure Ghost-types. So you're actually not dealing as much damage by taking the super-effective attack.

 

[Chief Zackrai]

Oh-ho. This makes sense. And Night Slash wouldn't be solely for Pure ghosties, but that would be its first reason.

 

[1. Luftballon]

what would you be using it for? There's not much little that waterfall hits NVE and night slash hits SE (latias and starmie, basically). just as few double-resist water and are neutral to dark (kingdra and ludicolo). only a hypothetical ghost/psychic would be double-weak to dark.

you are better off with x-scissor, which has 10 extra BP and hits what you would want to night slash SE still SE, and also ludicolo, unless you run into lots of defense-boosters. still, rain dance is probably better.

EDIT: and stone edge would deal with everything you'd want to night slash anyway.

 

[Chief Zackrai]

I don't know... something?

Maybe X-scissor would work... But, like I said, I was curious, not trying to be stubborn.

@the Edit: Actually, I've been doing shoddy, and I've noticed that.