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Do animals have souls?

Orang-hutans (Sp?) make umbrellas out of big leaves and they use rocks to open up coconuts. So yes, animals can think up new ideas. And duh they have souls, otherwise they wouldn't show affection to people
 
I shall take the theist argument *shot* and say that animals don't have souls. Why? Because God created man in his image, but not animals. In that way, only man would have a soul. Animals would not.
 
Pwnemon said:
I shall take the theist argument *shot* and say that animals don't have souls. Why? Because God created man in his image, but not animals. In that way, only man would have a soul. Animals would not.
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So are there animals in heaven? Unless I wasn't myself any more and/or was being mind-controlled after I died and ended up in heaven, I'd be pretty unhappy if there were no animals in heaven. And you're supposed to feel nothing but happiness in heaven, right?

When I was still a theist this was my argument for animals having souls (that is, when I was really little; I realize now it's a silly argument that could be applied to almost anything but it's something to think about) I want animals in my heaven, dammit! And you kinda need a soul to get in am I right? And if my soul was hacked into or whatever to only be in the "happy" mode despite what's up there, well, I don't really appreciate that idea and I'd much rather just keep myself intact.

But since I'm not a theist, then no, I do not think they do, just like us and anything else. I do think they're pretty damn smart though.
 
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Butbutbut do women have souls?
I mean, he created man in his image, right?
He created women in man's image. Or something.

Damn technicalities!

e: Also, which man specifically is in his image? 'Cause we all look different.
 
ACTUALLY GUYS DISREGARD THAT I SUCK COCKS. I just remembered this.

Sorry if this video was posted in this thread already, but it's very relevant.
 
Alruanne, while I am no practiced theologist, all I could assume is that you would be happy in heaven without being forced to be. I mean, if you spend your time with an all-powerful God, he could do anything to make you happy, including animals. Having a soul would have no link on whether you could be in heaven, just whether you could have a relation with God.

Saith, man (Adam) was made in God's image, then woman (Eve) was taken and made directly from man. So women would as well have souls. Also, that does not mean physical image, the actual translation is closer to the word likeness.

We need a theism thread.
 
So if it's not physical image, then why can't animals?

If animals and man ('adam') came directly from god, then you're implying that women are lower down on the scale than animals, as they came from man.

So: God--->Animals
God--->Man--->Woman

And yes, I'm being purposefully literal, because if you believe in Adam and Eve, you can't take parts of the Bible as symbolic.

e: Even if it's not image, if it's likeness, it still only applies to men. You may have been referencing Irenaeus(sp?), but even he says that no one has a soul, that we only get souls once we've been dickish enough.
 
Saith, God never made animals in his image. He made them on the fifth day, man on the sixth. They are in a totally separate class. It would be like saying bread is worse than wheat sheaves, since one takes two steps and one takes one.
 
Pwnemon said:
Alruanne, while I am no practiced theologist, all I could assume is that you would be happy in heaven without being forced to be. I mean, if you spend your time with an all-powerful God, he could do anything to make you happy, including animals. Having a soul would have no link on whether you could be in heaven, just whether you could have a relation with God.
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I'm an atheist and I know that I would really hate it if I died and ended up in heaven. Not because I "hate God" or anything, but because I hate the idea of any afterlife in general; I'd rather fade into non-existence.
 
I dunno, I think he was pretty tired by the sixth day, judging that he had to rest on the seventh.

And I'm not saying anything about value, just purity. Men (and animals) are closer to god than women, as women came from Adam's ribs.

So, using your analogy, wheat is closer to the Earth than flour. Wheat is alive. Flour is not.
 
Pwnemon said:
Alruanne, while I am no practiced theologist, all I could assume is that you would be happy in heaven without being forced to be. I mean, if you spend your time with an all-powerful God, he could do anything to make you happy, including animals. Having a soul would have no link on whether you could be in heaven, just whether you could have a relation with God.

Saith, man (Adam) was made in God's image, then woman (Eve) was taken and made directly from man. So women would as well have souls. Also, that does not mean physical image, the actual translation is closer to the word likeness.

We need a theism thread.
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How about that video I linked to? Or was that too solid of an argument
 
Please, gentlemen, you're approaching this problem the wrong way; he's clearly delusional. Don't argue with him, you'll only upset him - he may even turn violent. Trust me, I have some experience in these matters and I recognize the symptoms; what you're doing is as futile as trying to talk a schizophrenic out of hallucinating. Just leave him be. There is nothing more we can do for this poor man; the rest is up to modern healthcare.
 
But it makes me feel all awesome and stuff when he doesn't answer half of what I say (or anyone for that matter) because I'm pretty sure he knows he can't. Plus it'd be kinda funny if he got violent. I realize that makes me kind of a bitch, but.

Though I kind of wish I knew the magic words that would make theists realize you can totally live life without all those convoluted rules people made up hundreds of years ago to supplement their supernatural explanations of natural occurrences and stuff. Especially the theists that try to shove their convoluted, archaic rules onto others. So I'm experimenting.
 
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Firstly, Saith, animals may be purer than women, but would you rather play with plastic and wires or a DS? Purity =/= value. Also, God didn't get tired on the sixth day, he's a God. He just rested to give humans a precedent.

Secondly, Alraunne, I checked that video just now. At least the first ~2 and a half minutes. Firstly, just because a laptop and a Gameboy have a lot of similar features doesn't mean they function in nearly the same way. Secondly, he got the theology behind humans and animals wrong. God did create us with a better brain, one in his image, and to be a master over everything else on the Earth, dogs included. Plus, scientific studies show that only humans and dolphins have sex for fun, as a side note.

Music Dragon, stop the flaming.
 
I'm going to have to ask you all to leave. Now.

... Pwnemon, calm down. I'm not going to hurt you. I'm here to help. Tell me more about these flames you're seeing. Are they in this room right now?
 
Pwnemon said:
Secondly, Alraunne, I checked that video just now. At least the first ~2 and a half minutes. Firstly, just because a laptop and a Gameboy have a lot of similar features doesn't mean they function in nearly the same way. Secondly, he got the theology behind humans and animals wrong. God did create us with a better brain, one in his image, and to be a master over everything else on the Earth, dogs included. Plus, scientific studies show that only humans and dolphins have sex for fun, as a side note.

Music Dragon, stop the flaming.
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Then you totally missed the rest where he discusses how vague the idea of a soul is and how it would possibly work in the real world, when you get one and how it goes, which ties into whether or not animals should/would have one if souls even existed. One good question you either ignored or just barely missed was, "Why create something that can think and feel in the first place if you only intend to utterly destroy it and leave no trace of it?" That sounds pretty malevolent, which relates back to something I said in another thread you didn't bother with. I recommend you either watch the rest, or gtfo.

Music Dragon is hardly flaming, he's just warning us that we're never going to get through to you. You won't either but I'm having fun.
 
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