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Does a God of ANY KIND exist?

So true. This is another reason why I try to stay away from religion threads; the type of person who argues for religion, no matter how old they are, tend to pick and choose which part of your argument they read. That is, if they read it at all.

Most of the time, it's like arguing with a wall made of particularly dense, sound-absorbing rock. I prefer not to waste my time arguing with someone who isn't going to read what I type anyway.

"don't argue with idiots, they drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience"



Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it won't. One day, Entropy will claim the Empirical method!

let me know when it does, until that time the scientific method is the most reliable way of obtaining information about our surroundings




But that doesn't stop it from being inaccurate.

No, it doesn't, but do you really care whether you're crashing to the ground at 200 mph or 200.1? You're gonna die anyway. The inaccuracy is smaller than the statistical meaning we can infer from the results of the data most of the time. We simply can't measure accurately enough for any overly complex laws to make an impact. So, using a simplified law can be justified in a lot of cases. I am aware that everything is refined and more complicated and that there is a spider web of things going on physics, but we're using these models because we're humans and make errors, as well as the fact these models are analytically simple and can therefore be taught as the basic principle, from which you can expand your knowledge.




This mostly fits with my own observed results, though I'd put the intelligent people at about 3%-2% and increase the crybabies by the remaining amount. Of course, we're missing the few intelligent people who are also weirdo fucks from this example. I've seen at least one running around, but s/he appears pleasant enough.

yeah the distinction was a bit crude and assumed nobody could fit into more than one box but it's all oversimplified anyway because I doubt a dissection of TCoD's core demographic is a really fruitful and rewarding endeavour, not to mention the whole boxing people thing is a bit off-putting as classifying people isn't easy/done at all.


I think it has everything to do with it. If God could be (dis)proved, it'd stop the pointless bickering. People would stop talking about it.

it's a discussion that will go on until God's existence is finally disproved. can you foresee when this day comes? until that day comes, the debate of whether God exists, what morals we draw from his existence is a very pertinent question because as you can see the lives of more than half the population of the earth depends on it. would be nasty if they all just learned one day it's a hoax. it is socially relevant, even if this forum has decided that No God is the way to go.

Or so I assume. Observation has led me to believe that 99% of the people who start a religion debate thread start it through some need that doesn't hinge on their religion. Most of the time, I think it's for attention.

Yeah or they suck some religious figure's cock. Most likely both. I haven't decided which is worse.


But surely Jimi's God-Given talent proves that God exists.

Did that sound believable to you? Me either. That's like inferring dustbunnies from the existence of a carpeted floor. It just ain't happening.

it's actually the babelfish but they didn't tell you that


Cool. :love: You start. I'm a little out of practice, and may need to brush up on my Philosophy before I can debate you satisfactorily.

I'm a molecular science major but I read Schopenhauer in my free time, maybe that's the issue? Do brush up on it though, I'm pretty sure the utilitarians would love it :)
 
I would rather live my life for God and die finding out there isn't one when I die than not living life for God and finding out there is a God when I die.

i'm late as hell on this, but sweet jesus I wish i could strangle Pascal for his damn wager.

Pascal's Wager only works when there is only one possible religion and one possible god (or group of gods - who knows, the Greek gods might be real, although it's extremely unlikely). But that's not how it works. There have been thousands of religions throughout time. Any one of them could have been the true ones, or none at all. You'd have horrible odds of picking the right one. Plus, you'd still need to stay in said god's good books in order to end up in paradise.

Even with all that in mind, most theists I know would believe that if you believe in a god just to end up in heaven, you wouldn't actually get into heaven anyway, because you wouldn't really be truly faithful to said god - you'd just want eternal paradise.
 
I was in the midst of a religious debate on another forum I'm on when I got the following reply to one of my statements:

As I have pointed out many a times Creation is more factual than evolution and even the slightest possible shreds of evidence for evolution is, well, far fetched. If you want I'll post the facts but if not just realize I'm not just following a book, I'm following science as well.

... wut
 
I was in the midst of a religious debate on another forum I'm on when I got the following reply to one of my statements:

As I have pointed out many a times Creation is more factual than evolution and even the slightest possible shreds of evidence for evolution is, well, far fetched. If you want I'll post the facts but if not just realize I'm not just following a book, I'm following science as well.

... wut

I call bullshit. I suggest you do too, and ask him politely but firmly to show his alleged proof, with links to support these 'facts'. Of course, it's going to turn out that either he'll A. not reply, B. ignore you completely, C. post his 'facts' with links to various Christian websites.

If he follows 'C', then you can have fun kicking his little logical fallacy down. If he ignores your assertions, then there's not much you can do.
 
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I call bullshit. I suggest you do too, and ask him politely but firmly to show his alleged proof, with links to support these 'facts'. Of course, it's going to turn out that either he'll A. not reply, B. ignore you completely, C. post his 'facts' with links to various Christian websites.

Mkay, so I just asked for the 'facts' she (yup, it's a she) talked about with links. If she responds I'll post the facts/links here.

EDIT: Here it is.

Okay This'll be a bit of a large post and I'm not even going to post all the facts: (and Sheila this information was asked for, not forced upon Lakey just to make sure)

Below is a complete unedited transcript of what professor Dawkins said about this:

BILL MOYERS: Is evolution a theory, not a fact?

RICHARD DAWKINS: Evolution has been observed. It’s just that it hasn’t been observed while it’s happening.

MOYERS: What do you mean It’s been observed?

DAWKINS: The consequences of. It is rather like a detective coming on a murder after the scene. And you… the detective hasn’t actually seen the murder take place, of course. But what you do see is a massive clue. Now, any detective…

MOYERS: Circumstantial evidence.

DAWKINS: Circumstantial evidence, but masses of circumstantial evidence. Huge quantities of circumstantial evidence…………

There you have it – professor Richard Dawkins, the atheists' number one hero, admits that evolution has never been observed and is supported only by circumstantial evidence.

http://darwinbusters.com/

Physicist Robert Gentry has reported isolated radio halos of polonuim-214 in crystalline granite. The half-life of this element is 0.000164 seconds! To record the existence of this element in such short time span, the granite must be in crystalline state instantaneously.10 This runs counter to evolutionary estimates of 300 million years for granite to form. Recently there have been evolutionists online in newsgroups and on blogs that have claimed Polonium 214 doesn't exist. Main reason being is because they declare the Granite in the earth's crust took many millions of years to form and finally cool and Polonium 214 takes less then a second to expend all its half-lifes. In order to save face, some evolutionists have decided to lie and say Polonium 214 simply doesn't exist. HOWEVER, if you click here you will see one of many online Scientific websites that list the element Pulonium 214 to be found on Planet earth. On that page they share evidence that Polonium 214 is in fact a chemical profile that can and has been recorded by many scientists.

The human brain is the most complicated structure in the known universe.18 It contains over 100 billion cells, each with over 50,000 neuron connections to other brain cells.19 This structure receives over 100 million separate signals from the total human body every second. If we learned something new every second of our lives, it would take three million years to exhaust the capacity of the human brain. 20 In addition to conscious thought, people can actually reason, anticipate consequences, and devise plans – all without knowing they are doing so.21

http://www.remnantofgod.org/creation.htm

Evolution Hall of 'Fame'
Lucy - Leg bones found 1.5 miles away from head bones and 200 feet deeper.
Heidelberg Man - Build up from a jaw bone that was conceded by many to be quite human.
Nebraska Man - Scientifically build up from one tooth, later found to be the tooth of an extinct pig.
Piltdown Man - The jaw bone was filed down and fused to the skull of an ape, then the bones where re-buried.
Peking Man - Evidence was broken ape skulls and tools found together, Man was crushing the ape brains, duh.
Java Man - Made from a few scraps of bone back in 1891 in Java, Indonesia
Neanderthal Man - His skeleton actually turned out to be from an old man suffering with arthritis.
Newguinea Man - Dates way back to 1970, This species has been found in the region just north of Australia.
Cromagnon Man - Equal in physique and brain capacity to modern man... so what's the difference?

The Fossil Record.
1. Evolutionists have constructed the Geologic Column in order to illustrate the supposed progression of "primitive" life forms to "more complex" systems we observe today. Yet, "since only a small percentage of the earth's surface obeys even a portion of the geologic column…the claim of their having taken place to form a continuum of rock/life/time…over the earth is therefore a fantastic and imaginative contrivance." "The lack of transitional series cannot be explained as being due to the scarcity of material. The deficiencies are real, they will never be filled." And this supposed column is actually saturated with "polystrate fossils" (fossils extending from one geologic layer to another) that tie all the layers to one time-frame. "To the unprejudiced, the fossil record of plants is in favor of special creation."

Decay of the Earth Magnetic Field.
2. The Earth's magnetic field is decaying at the rate of 6% every 100 years. Dr. Thomas Barnes, Emeritus Professor of Physics at the University of Texas at El Paso, has published the definitive work in this field. Scientific observations since 1829 have shown that the earth's magnetic field has been measurably decaying at an exponential rate, demonstrating its half-life to be approximately 1,400 years. 20,000 years ago it would have had the strength of a magnetic star (about 19,800 time stronger [2^14.28]). Enough Joule heat would have been generated to liquefy the earth. One million years ago the earth would have had greater magnetism than all objects in the universe, and it would have vaporized. This data demonstrates that earth's entire history is young, within a few thousand of years.

The Global Flood.
3. The Biblical record clearly describes a global Flood during Noah's day. Additionally, there is hundreds of Flood traditions handed down through cultures all over the world. M.E. Clark and Henry Voss have demonstrated the scientific validity of such a Flood providing the sedimentary layering we see on every continent. Secular scholars report very rapid sedimentation and periods of great carbonate deposition in earth's sedimentary layers. It is now possible to prove the historical reality of the Biblical Flood.

Population Statistics.
4.Our present population explosion is especially the result of improved sanitary conditions at childbirth and thereafter. In earlier centuries, many more children died before the age of three.
The rate of world population growth has varied greatly throughout history as a result of such things as pestilences, famines, wars, and catastrophes (floods, volcanoes, earthquakes, and fires). But with all this in mind, estimates generally focus on 300 million as the population of the earth at the time of Christ. Based on small-sized families, from the time of the Flood (c. 2400 B.C.) to the time of Christ, the population by that time would have been about a quarter million people.
If, in contrast, the human race had been on earth for one million years, as the evolutionists declare, even with a very low growth rate of 0.01 (1/100) percent annually, the resulting population by the time of Christ would be 2 x 1043 people (2 x 1043 is the numeral 2 followed by 43 zeros!). A thousand solar systems, with nine planets like ours could barely hold that many people, packed in solid!

Human Artifacts in the Geologic Column (in areas suppose to be 100+ mil old).
6. Man-made artifacts, such as a hammer in Cretaceous rock, a human sandal print with trilobite in Cambrian rock, human footprints and a handprint in Cretaceous rock and many other human artifacts have been found all through out the geologic column. This proves that the rock layers are not millions and millions of years apart in age difference. The logical solution would be that they all formed in a short period of time during Noah's flood.

Design in Living Systems.
9. A living cell is so awesomely complex that its interdependent components stagger the imagination and defy evolutionary explanations. A minimal cell contains over 60,000 proteins of 100 different configurations. The chance of this assemblage occurring by chance is 1 in 10 to the 4,478,296 power

C14 in the Earth's Atmosphere.
12. We have a thing called Carbon 14 in our atmosphere. We get it due to radiation from the sun entering out atmosphere and some becomes C14. Scientists have calculated that on a brand new planet about the size of earth, it would take about 30,000 years for the C14 to hit the equilibrium point (no more coming in, none leaving, a.k.a. the ammount stays the same). Our atmosphere is still gaining c14.
That proves the earth is less than 30,000 years old

Carbon Dating does not work and is not a reliable dating method:
*Year 1949 - lower leg of mammoth dated 15,380, its skin and flesh was dated 21,380 years old
*Year 1963 - living mollusk shells dated at 2,300 years old.
*Year 1971 - a freshly killed seal dated at 1,300 years old
*Year 1975 - one part of frozen baby mammoth dated 40,000 another 26,000 and wood around it dated 9,000-10,000 years old
*Year 1984 - Shells from living snails dated at 27,000 years old
*Year 1992 - the two Colorado, AK had radioactive ages of 22,850 and 16,150 years
*Year 1996 - human bone dated with 2 methods. One came out 53,000, other came out 27,000
*Vollosovich mammoth dated at 29,500 and another part of it at 44,000
*living penguin have been dated at 8,000 years old
*material from where dinosaurs found dated at 34,000
*some dinosaur bones dated under 30,000
*2 year old lava has been dated around 350,000 years old

Sahara Desert.
25. The Sahara desert has what's called a prevailing wind pattern. It almost always blows in the same direction. The hot air kills the trees nearby and that becomes desert. The process is called desertification. It's growing about 4 miles a year. It's been calculated that the desert is about 4000 years old. If the earth is billions of years old, then why don't we have a bigger desert?

Great Barrier Reef.
33. The Great Barrier Reef is the largest known reef in the world. During WW2, some of the reef was damaged and later they studied it for 20 years to see the growth rate. After studying the growth rate, it was determined that the Great Barrier Reef is 4,200 years old. If the earth is billions of years old, then we should definitely have an older reef, and yet we don't.

Bombardier Beetle.
37. This incredible beetle has two chemicals inside its body that explode when mixed. The 2 chemicals are stored in little sacs right next to each other. When a threat approaches they shoot the chemicals out of two separate tubes and they mix just in time outside the body and explode. There is no possible way that this beetle could have evolved. It would have simply exploded and then the evolving is over. The only logical solution is that this creature was created.

Not Enough Mud on the Sea Floor.
40. Each year, water and winds erode about 25 billion tons of dirt and rock from the continents and deposit it in the ocean. This material accumulates as loose sediment (i.e. mud) on the hard basaltic (lava-formed) rock of the ocean floor. The average depth of all the mud in the whole ocean, including the continental shelves, is less than 400 meters. According to evolutionists, this has been going on for billions of years. If that were so, the rates above imply that the oceans would be massively choked with mud dozens of miles deep.

Dinosaur Blood Found.
44. In September 1993 Earth Magazine, they have an article about how blood was found inside a dinosaurs bone. Medical pathologists examined dinosaur bones under a microscope and found blood inside the bone. How could the blood survive seventy million years? It is not possible. The reason why there is still blood in the bone, is because dinosaurs always lived with man in the Garden of Eden and other places before the flood. After the flood they were killed off. Some also died because of atmosphere changes.

Soft Dinosaur Bone Tissue.
45. A group of guys were transporting dinosaur bones and they happened to drop the bone and it broke. Inside the bone, they found soft bone tissue. Every once in a while dinosaur bones are cut in half and studied and the bone tissue is soft. It could not stay soft for 70+ million years. and yet the evolutionist ask them self "how could this bone have stayed soft for 70 million years"? Instead of thinking the obvious, which is that the bone tissue cant be 70 millions years old and still be soft.

Life Self Starting Impossible!
46. Lets just pretend for a minute that some cells did actually try to get together billions of years ago. If there was oxygen in the atmosphere, it would have simply oxidized and that would of been the end of it. To overcome this problem the evolutionist says that there was no oxygen on the earth billion of years ago. But even then the ammonia would have been killed by UV light from the sun and then the evolving thing would die. The o-zone layer blocks UV light but then you have oxygen on the earth. So something can't evolve to life with oxygen and something can't evolve to life without oxygen. Oxygen remains have been found in some of the deepest rocks. Honestly, this fact alone disproves the whole theory of evolution.

Tadpole to Toad, Self Destruct DNA.
47. As a tadpole turns into a toad, it no longer needs its tail. When the special gene gives the order, the tail cells begin to die. In other words, some living cells contain a gene that signal the death of the cell at an appointed time. Why would evolution develop genes that order their own death? By Definition, such a gene would not aid survival.

Hydrogen In Universe.
60. According to one theory of solar energy, hydrogen is constantly being converted into helium as stars shine. But hydrogen cannot be made by converting other elements into it. *Fred Hoyle, a leading astronomer, maintains that, if the universe were as old as Big Bang theorists contend, there should be little hydrogen in it. It would all have been transformed into helium by now. Yet stellar spectra reveal an abundance of hydrogen in the stars, therefore the universe must be youthful.

Solar Neutrinos.
61. In 1968 it was discovered that the sun is emitting hardly any neutrinos. This evidence points directly to a very youthful sun. These neutrinos ought to be radiating outward from the sun in very large amounts, but this is not occurring. This fact, coupled with the discovery that the sun is shrinking in size, point to a recently created sun.

Solar Winds.
62. As the sun’s radiation flows outward, it applies an outward force on very, very small particles orbiting the sun. All of the particles smaller than 100,000th of a centimeter in diameter should have long ago been "blown out" of our solar system, if the solar system were billions of years old. Yet research studies by satellites in space have shown that those small particles are abundant and still orbiting the sun. Therefore our solar system is quite young.

Jupiter’s Moons.
64. The Voyager I space probe was launched on September 5, 1977. Aimed at the planet Jupiter, it made its closest approach to that planet on March 5, 1979. Thousands of pictures and thousands of measurements were taken of Jupiter and its moons.
Io is the innermost of the four original "Galilean moons," and was found to have over sixty active volcanoes! These volcanoes spew plumes of ejecta from 60 to 160 miles [97 to 257 km] above Io’s surface. This is astounding.
Nothing on our planet can match this continuous stream of material being shot out by Io’s volcanoes at a velocity of 2000 miles per hour [3218 km per hour]! The usual evolutionary model portrays all the planets and moons as being molten 5 billion years ago. During the next billion years they are said to have had active volcanoes. Then, 4 billion years ago, the volcanism stopped as they cooled. Io is quite small, yet it has the most active volcanoes we know of. Obviously, it is quite young and its internal heat has not had time to cool.

What About Dinosaurs? (called 'dragons' in the bible)
It's a known fact that lizards never stop growing until they die. Back in the pre-flood days, there was a canopy of water or ice or vapor above the earth. It was a 7th layer of our atmosphere. This blocked out bad sun rays like UV, gamma and others. It also gave hyperbaric pressure and increased oxygen. The Earth's magnetic field was 15 to 19 times stronger (depending on the times, its half life is 1400 years). Due to this, people were able to live up to 900 years like it said in the bible. If a lizard lived to be several hundred years old and never stopped growing, it would get pretty big. Dinosaurs were several hundred year-old lizards living in the garden of Eden with Adam and Eve. But they were vegetarians. Samples of plant stuff have been found in T-Rex's teeth. Blood has even been found in some T-Rex bones. Most of the dinosaurs died in the flood. Although Noah took some baby dinosaurs on the ark, eventually they were killed off by man because you can get a lot of food from 1 dinosaur. The big change in the atmosphere also helped kill them. Their is still some evidence of possible dinosaurs still alive. (Loch Ness and others)
Check out Dr. Kent Hovind's Seminar part 3: Dinosaurs and the bible for more info

http://www.freewebtown.com/dug1243/

And remember this is just SOME of the facts that all point toward Creation.

EDIT: These are the sources for the website above:
Credits
Mike Ripley - Designer and Compiler of information on website

The Following are the sources / references for the information presented on this site.
The Evolution Cruncher, Chapter 4
Creation Evolution Enyclopedia
Evidence for Young Earth
Kent Hovind for the Creation Seminar and "Reasons Why Evolution is So Stupid!"
Christian Answers for Young World Evidence
Incredible Creatures That Defy Evolution for some creature info
Discover Creation for some Evidences for Creation
 
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This person is obviously an idiot. Allow me to dismantle some of those for you.

Decay of the Earth Magnetic Field.
2. The Earth's magnetic field is decaying at the rate of 6% every 100 years. Dr. Thomas Barnes, Emeritus Professor of Physics at the University of Texas at El Paso, has published the definitive work in this field. Scientific observations since 1829 have shown that the earth's magnetic field has been measurably decaying at an exponential rate, demonstrating its half-life to be approximately 1,400 years. 20,000 years ago it would have had the strength of a magnetic star (about 19,800 time stronger [2^14.28]). Enough Joule heat would have been generated to liquefy the earth. One million years ago the earth would have had greater magnetism than all objects in the universe, and it would have vaporized. This data demonstrates that earth's entire history is young, within a few thousand of years.

However, there is no evidence to suggest that the magnetic field has always been decaying, nor that it has always existed./COLOR]

The Global Flood.
3. The Biblical record clearly describes a global Flood during Noah's day. Additionally, there is hundreds of Flood traditions handed down through cultures all over the world. M.E. Clark and Henry Voss have demonstrated the scientific validity of such a Flood providing the sedimentary layering we see on every continent. Secular scholars report very rapid sedimentation and periods of great carbonate deposition in earth's sedimentary layers. It is now possible to prove the historical reality of the Biblical Flood.

This only proves that the Flood in the Bible actually happened, not that the Bible is true. Because it's not.

Population Statistics.
4.Our present population explosion is especially the result of improved sanitary conditions at childbirth and thereafter. In earlier centuries, many more children died before the age of three.
The rate of world population growth has varied greatly throughout history as a result of such things as pestilences, famines, wars, and catastrophes (floods, volcanoes, earthquakes, and fires). But with all this in mind, estimates generally focus on 300 million as the population of the earth at the time of Christ. Based on small-sized families, from the time of the Flood (c. 2400 B.C.) to the time of Christ, the population by that time would have been about a quarter million people.
If, in contrast, the human race had been on earth for one million years, as the evolutionists declare, even with a very low growth rate of 0.01 (1/100) percent annually, the resulting population by the time of Christ would be 2 x 1043 people (2 x 1043 is the numeral 2 followed by 43 zeros!). A thousand solar systems, with nine planets like ours could barely hold that many people, packed in solid!

Actually, the Earth's population at the time of Christ was estimated at 200, 000, it wouldn't be 300, 000 for another thousand years. But that's beside the point because evolutionists don't claim that humans have been on Earth for millions of years, the modern bioligical equivalent of a human has only existed in any appreciable amount since 10, 000 BC.

Human Artifacts in the Geologic Column (in areas suppose to be 100+ mil old).
6. Man-made artifacts, such as a hammer in Cretaceous rock, a human sandal print with trilobite in Cambrian rock, human footprints and a handprint in Cretaceous rock and many other human artifacts have been found all through out the geologic column. This proves that the rock layers are not millions and millions of years apart in age difference. The logical solution would be that they all formed in a short period of time during Noah's flood.

I'm gonna go with a three-pronged strike on this one;

1. If Noah's Flood was as destructive and powerful as the Bible makes it out to be me, it would be perfectly capable of ripping open rock and depositing it hundreds of feet below the surface of the Earth.

2. Due to local conditions, the stone wasn't buried efficiently and humans left their remnants thousands of years ago. The conditions preventing its burial changed and it became buried.

3. It was planted there by creationists looking to upset the theory of evolution.


Design in Living Systems.
9. A living cell is so awesomely complex that its interdependent components stagger the imagination and defy evolutionary explanations. A minimal cell contains over 60,000 proteins of 100 different configurations. The chance of this assemblage occurring by chance is 1 in 10 to the 4,478,296 power

Yes but that doesn't mean that it's impossible. The Universe naturally forms systems within itself. Eventually the Universe simply created a tiny system, the first cell.

C14 in the Earth's Atmosphere.
12. We have a thing called Carbon 14 in our atmosphere. We get it due to radiation from the sun entering out atmosphere and some becomes C14. Scientists have calculated that on a brand new planet about the size of earth, it would take about 30,000 years for the C14 to hit the equilibrium point (no more coming in, none leaving, a.k.a. the ammount stays the same). Our atmosphere is still gaining c14.
That proves the earth is less than 30,000 years old

Unless Earth hasn't always had the conditions to retain C-14. And there is no evidence to suggest it has.

Sahara Desert.
25. The Sahara desert has what's called a prevailing wind pattern. It almost always blows in the same direction. The hot air kills the trees nearby and that becomes desert. The process is called desertification. It's growing about 4 miles a year. It's been calculated that the desert is about 4000 years old. If the earth is billions of years old, then why don't we have a bigger desert?

Because the Sahara Desert used to be an ocean. A shift in local temperatures evaporated it.

Great Barrier Reef.
33. The Great Barrier Reef is the largest known reef in the world. During WW2, some of the reef was damaged and later they studied it for 20 years to see the growth rate. After studying the growth rate, it was determined that the Great Barrier Reef is 4,200 years old. If the earth is billions of years old, then we should definitely have an older reef, and yet we don't.

That only applies if we assume the coral polyps have existed for billions of years, which they haven't, and that the seas around Australia has always been a suitable home for them, which it hasn't.

Bombardier Beetle.
37. This incredible beetle has two chemicals inside its body that explode when mixed. The 2 chemicals are stored in little sacs right next to each other. When a threat approaches they shoot the chemicals out of two separate tubes and they mix just in time outside the body and explode. There is no possible way that this beetle could have evolved. It would have simply exploded and then the evolving is over. The only logical solution is that this creature was created.

Or we can consider that at first it had only one chemical and then produced another one that produced a horrible smell and that as it evolved the strength of the second chemical became explosive.

Not Enough Mud on the Sea Floor.
40. Each year, water and winds erode about 25 billion tons of dirt and rock from the continents and deposit it in the ocean. This material accumulates as loose sediment (i.e. mud) on the hard basaltic (lava-formed) rock of the ocean floor. The average depth of all the mud in the whole ocean, including the continental shelves, is less than 400 meters. According to evolutionists, this has been going on for billions of years. If that were so, the rates above imply that the oceans would be massively choked with mud dozens of miles deep.

Firstly, the amount of soil on Earth is finite. The oceans could only be chocked with dozens of miles of mud if all of the continents had been completely ground down to dust and dissolved in the ocean.

Secondly, evolutionists have never claimed this has been going on for billions of years, as the Earth was still molten billions of years ago, then it was a super-volcanic planet covered in poisonous gases, then it began to look somewhat like what we have today.


Dinosaur Blood Found.
44. In September 1993 Earth Magazine, they have an article about how blood was found inside a dinosaurs bone. Medical pathologists examined dinosaur bones under a microscope and found blood inside the bone. How could the blood survive seventy million years? It is not possible. The reason why there is still blood in the bone, is because dinosaurs always lived with man in the Garden of Eden and other places before the flood. After the flood they were killed off. Some also died because of atmosphere changes.

It all depends on where the bone was found. There are plenty of conditions where the blood could have been preserved indefinitely. Butter from thousands of years ago has been found in the bogs of Ireland, it's preservative power is unparalleled.

Soft Dinosaur Bone Tissue.
45. A group of guys were transporting dinosaur bones and they happened to drop the bone and it broke. Inside the bone, they found soft bone tissue. Every once in a while dinosaur bones are cut in half and studied and the bone tissue is soft. It could not stay soft for 70+ million years. and yet the evolutionist ask them self "how could this bone have stayed soft for 70 million years"? Instead of thinking the obvious, which is that the bone tissue cant be 70 millions years old and still be soft.

See comment on dinosaur blood.

Life Self Starting Impossible!
46. Lets just pretend for a minute that some cells did actually try to get together billions of years ago. If there was oxygen in the atmosphere, it would have simply oxidized and that would of been the end of it. To overcome this problem the evolutionist says that there was no oxygen on the earth billion of years ago. But even then the ammonia would have been killed by UV light from the sun and then the evolving thing would die. The o-zone layer blocks UV light but then you have oxygen on the earth. So something can't evolve to life with oxygen and something can't evolve to life without oxygen. Oxygen remains have been found in some of the deepest rocks. Honestly, this fact alone disproves the whole theory of evolution.

The fact that no evolutionists have ever claimed life existing billions of years ago sort of renders this point invalid but let's have a look at your evidence anyway. You're basing that statement on the idea that life began on land, but it's a commonly toted fact that life originated in the oceans.

Tadpole to Toad, Self Destruct DNA.
47. As a tadpole turns into a toad, it no longer needs its tail. When the special gene gives the order, the tail cells begin to die. In other words, some living cells contain a gene that signal the death of the cell at an appointed time. Why would evolution develop genes that order their own death? By Definition, such a gene would not aid survival.

Actually, it does aid survival, by destroying dead weight that would encumber the toad (or frog or newt) and prevent it escaping predators.

Hydrogen In Universe.
60. According to one theory of solar energy, hydrogen is constantly being converted into helium as stars shine. But hydrogen cannot be made by converting other elements into it. *Fred Hoyle, a leading astronomer, maintains that, if the universe were as old as Big Bang theorists contend, there should be little hydrogen in it. It would all have been transformed into helium by now. Yet stellar spectra reveal an abundance of hydrogen in the stars, therefore the universe must be youthful.

Hydrogen can be produced by fission of helium. And fission can occur naturally, both on and off Earth.

Solar Neutrinos.
61. In 1968 it was discovered that the sun is emitting hardly any neutrinos. This evidence points directly to a very youthful sun. These neutrinos ought to be radiating outward from the sun in very large amounts, but this is not occurring. This fact, coupled with the discovery that the sun is shrinking in size, point to a recently created sun.

This forty year old problem was solved in 2002. Because they lack mass, electron neutrinos, the type that fly out of the Sun, can and will convert into to other types of neutrino, the muon and tau neutrino, which can't be detected by the same instruments of electron neutrinos.

Solar Winds.
62. As the sun’s radiation flows outward, it applies an outward force on very, very small particles orbiting the sun. All of the particles smaller than 100,000th of a centimeter in diameter should have long ago been "blown out" of our solar system, if the solar system were billions of years old. Yet research studies by satellites in space have shown that those small particles are abundant and still orbiting the sun. Therefore our solar system is quite young.

This stems from a lack of understanding of solar winds. Solar winds are material ejected from the uppermost surface of the sun. They then orbit the sun and can but won't necessarily break free of its gravity. Those that do form the outer boundary of our solar system, the heliopause.

Jupiter’s Moons.
64. The Voyager I space probe was launched on September 5, 1977. Aimed at the planet Jupiter, it made its closest approach to that planet on March 5, 1979. Thousands of pictures and thousands of measurements were taken of Jupiter and its moons.
Io is the innermost of the four original "Galilean moons," and was found to have over sixty active volcanoes! These volcanoes spew plumes of ejecta from 60 to 160 miles [97 to 257 km] above Io’s surface. This is astounding.
Nothing on our planet can match this continuous stream of material being shot out by Io’s volcanoes at a velocity of 2000 miles per hour [3218 km per hour]! The usual evolutionary model portrays all the planets and moons as being molten 5 billion years ago. During the next billion years they are said to have had active volcanoes. Then, 4 billion years ago, the volcanism stopped as they cooled. Io is quite small, yet it has the most active volcanoes we know of. Obviously, it is quite young and its internal heat has not had time to cool.

The evolutionary model has nothing to do with the development of planets. Either way, the extreme geologic activity of Io is the result of tidal heating from friction generated within Io's interior by Jupiter's varying pull.

What About Dinosaurs? (called 'dragons' in the bible)
It's a known fact that lizards never stop growing until they die. Back in the pre-flood days, there was a canopy of water or ice or vapor above the earth. It was a 7th layer of our atmosphere. This blocked out bad sun rays like UV, gamma and others. It also gave hyperbaric pressure and increased oxygen. The Earth's magnetic field was 15 to 19 times stronger (depending on the times, its half life is 1400 years). Due to this, people were able to live up to 900 years like it said in the bible. If a lizard lived to be several hundred years old and never stopped growing, it would get pretty big. Dinosaurs were several hundred year-old lizards living in the garden of Eden with Adam and Eve. But they were vegetarians. Samples of plant stuff have been found in T-Rex's teeth. Blood has even been found in some T-Rex bones. Most of the dinosaurs died in the flood. Although Noah took some baby dinosaurs on the ark, eventually they were killed off by man because you can get a lot of food from 1 dinosaur. The big change in the atmosphere also helped kill them. Their is still some evidence of possible dinosaurs still alive. (Loch Ness and others)

This is actually just a genuinely convoluted and incorrect point in general.
 
That person mentioned 'Dr' Kent Hovind, call them out on their bullshit. The man's a complete fool, his essays are high-school level and he believes in fire-breathing dragons.

Didn't read through all of that, but I'll probably do it eventually since it's all false.
 
Didn't read through all of that, but I'll probably do it eventually since it's all false.

I can't even be bothered to, she posted the exact same thing a while back and I think some points were even responded to, yet she never listens to reason about it.

EDIT:

the Creationist said:
Wow, I love how you guys read all this "circumstantial" FACT and don't even care. Brighty I also like how there wasn't any good facts backing up that info you posted and I have yet to see any fact of any kind of evolution besides micro-evolution which I believe in. (minor adaptations, different dog sreeds through selective breeding, yada yada yada) And for you guys who still don't get how people can be sent to 'heck' look at one of the other posts I put into response of what Lakey said. Oh and might I also mention how when the earth was created God gave everything the appearance of age. I mean He wouldn't just create land and water and animals without trees or rocks and such. Many animals wouldn't survive without those things. And well for God being protrayed as a guy, it always refers to him in the Bible as a man. Never a woman. And also the Bible has been proved to be historically accurate in may cases. (such as sceptics used to say 'there were no Hittites so the Bible must be wrong' well as for all that the Hittite civilization has been recovered. And you guys can't just dismiss my facts as being 'old news' and ask for new ones because if you obviously don't see all of that information as pointing to a God then you won't ever see it in any 'new' facts I post. The point is right up there all the different parts of evolution (except micro-evolution) can be disproven. And as for them not being 'scientific' websites, you don't need to have a doctorite in science to comprehend this information. The reason why these sites seem to be, in your words "propaganda" is because no scientist who does not believe in Creation will post this stuff because it disproves what they have known to be true and as human nature shows people hate to be proven wrong. Also check up on those facts, they are proven and if even ONE is against practiccal science let me know. I would prefer to continue this canversation through PM because I feel it'll be less explosive.

Me said:
Every single reference you posted is an anti-evolution or pro-creation bias. Show me one that isn't biased and maybe I'll consider your points.
 
What really confuses me is when people say "I believe in microevolution but not macroevolution".

That's like saying you can have millions of inches, but they'll never equal up to a mile.
 
The reason why these sites seem to be, in your words "propaganda" is because no scientist who does not believe in Creation will post this stuff because it disproves what they have known to be true and as human nature shows people hate to be proven wrong.

^Probably the other way around.

I hate that she got the information from a place called Remnant of God. :/
 
I'm a little confused... who exactly is everybody quoting/responding to?
 
oh look, a long list of claims that the poster likely doesn't understand in the slightest and are not supported by any sources.

I suggest talkorigins. You can probably find counters to most (if not all) of those points.

I love this page.
 
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What really confuses me is when people say "I believe in microevolution but not macroevolution".

That's like saying you can have millions of inches, but they'll never equal up to a mile.

more like that the universe isn't long enough for a mile to be measurable
 
Well, I just found out that apparently the point of this debate was the Christian attempting to convert us so that we don't end up going to hell :x

and she also claimed that she knows more about evolution than me and another debating atheist "because she's studying Biology next semester" or some crap like that. Yeah. Right.
 
Well, I just found out that apparently the point of this debate was the Christian attempting to convert us so that we don't end up going to hell :x

Going to hell means you're farther away from the sadistic deity who made it in the first place.

and she also claimed that she knows more about evolution than me and another debating atheist "because she's studying Biology next semester" or some crap like that. Yeah. Right.

1. How old is she?
2. If she hasn't studied it yet then how can she be claiming to know more?
3. TalkOrigins, man.
 
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