Vegetarianism/Veganism/etc.

[Vyraura]

What is all this tripe about vegetarianism's being unnatural? It makes no difference whether it is.

I don't like unnatural things (milk for example) so I can't help bringing it up if someone pulls the ethics card. Or sometimes just because it's one of my flagship reasons I eat what I eat; what my body is designed for. You are right, GFZ. (Do you mind the acronym?)


Also Murkrow nobody ever said eating only meat is healthy in fact it's extremely unhealthy. If it wasn't for the huge amount of synthetic creations, eating only vegetables would be extremely unhealthy too. I know plenty of overweight, diabetic, soon-to-die vegetarians, just like I know plenty of them who eat meat. And by synthetic creations I mean the fact that vegetarians rely heavily on various soy products to live, which I disapprove of.

Also I'm going to use the 'plants are alive too' thing because of what GFZ said. It is just as valid as saying 'animals are alive and have feelings'. Considering that a tree can go into shock, typically associated with an animal's breakdown of the nervous system (is that medically right?) when severely damaged, one could even argue that it's just as wrong to end the plant's life as it is to end the animal's life. Can you prove that a cow has conscious thoughts? If all it has is basic genetic emotions (Damage to body = pain = attempt to stop cause of pain) then that sounds similar to a grapevine regrowing when a toxin is placed in it's path.


Of course, you could also admit that there is nothing wrong with killing something for your own use because that's part of nature so toughen up.

 

[Murkrow]

And by synthetic creations I mean the fact that vegetarians rely heavily on various soy products to live, which I disapprove of.

I'll reply to the rest later, once I've done my homework.

Why do you disapprove of it?
How is it different from, say synthetic creations that contain some amount meat?

 

[Teh Ebil Snorlax]

The way you worded that seems to me that it's the 'That cow's looking at me in an evil way!' kind of way. xD
If you're actually scared then it's understandable.

All of my phobias but one are of animals. And I have many phobias.

 

[GameFreakerZero]

Do you think it's more ok to kill a plant than an animal?

No. Either way a living, breathing organism dies for whatever reason.

If you were the one killing them, and you had to, would you rather kill a cow or a carrot?

The carrot. The cow would be much more difficult to kill, skin, and cook, meanwhile the carrot could be eaten raw. Not to mention humans are animals themselves and therefore have a bit more empathy towards fluffy things than green things, so killing the carrot would be easier on my subconscious than killing the cow.

I still don't see how this shows that killing plants isn't any less terrible than killing an animal.

You are right, GFZ. (Do you mind the acronym?)

I'd prefer GF0 as it doesn't make me sound like a silly animé about guys with crazy hair who shoot lasers D:

 

[Vyraura]

I'll reply to the rest later, once I've done my homework.

Why do you disapprove of it?
How is it different from, say synthetic creations that contain some amount meat?

I disapprove of it because it is eating huge amounts of one thing; like eating more meat than you should (many people do this). And I try not to eat synthetic creations of meat, because those are almost always industrially farmed (chicken nuggets for ecample).

The carrot. The cow would be much more difficult to kill, skin, and cook, meanwhile the carrot could be eaten raw. Not to mention humans are animals themselves and therefore have a bit more empathy towards fluffy things than green things, so killing the carrot would be easier on my subconscious than killing the cow.

I must disagree on a minor point here; I don't think you should feel any more guilty about killing the cow. I would also kill the carrot, but the only thing you should really have empathy for is other humans and anything that benefits you by living. I'm sure it's a more personal thing, but I would readily kill the cow if it wasn't for the hassle of cooking it, etc.

I'd prefer GF0 as it doesn't make me sound like a silly animé about guys with crazy hair who shoot lasers D:

OVER 9000

 

[opaltiger]

I am skipping this thread to point out a few things I think are relevant, sorry if I'm repeating anything.

Suggest you note the difference between vegetarianism as in "I don't like the taste of meat" and vegetarianism as in "I think eating meat is morally wrong." Anyone who finds something wrong with the former, off my planet, and the latter is just obnoxious.

That said, some suggestions for the poll! well only one but whatever: pescetarian, because it is an amusing word and no-one knows what it means. I would suggest an opposite (eats meat but not fish; 's what I am) but apparently no-one has thought of a word yet.

also guys kangaroo is disgusting :(

 

[Ruby]

You spelt former wrong, opal.

 

[Murkrow]

For the record, I don't think there's anything wrong with not eating meat because you don't like the taste, I don't think they're generally vegetarians - even if you don't like the taste of meat by itself, I doubt they don't eat things that happen to have meat as an ingredient, like liquorice for example.
I used to not like eggs, and I didn't drink milk because the coldness hurt my teeth. And I can't remember why I didn't eat cheese, but I didn't
That didn't make me a vegan.

 

[EvilCrazyMonkey]

I didn't say we shouldn't.
But if you believe that, then feel free to stop using your arms and legs. :P

By "must" I meant that we don't use our arms/legs, according to your logic.

Let me rephrase that:
We obviously don't use our legs and arms because we can survive without them.

 

[Negrek]

Most of this thread just kind of makes me want to rub my forehead and sigh, but there was one thing that really irked me:

They developed out of necessity.

Genes DO NOT arise out of necessity ever. Mutations occur completely at random throughout the population; over time, those that are beneficial tend to be retained, while those that are not tend to be eliminated. At some point, a mutation arose that allowed people to metabolize lactose; for whatever reason, the individual with this mutation was more successful than his or her peers and consequently passed it on.

Genetic change never occurs because a trait is required. Rather, conditions may change such that continued survival is only possible for an individual with a certain trait; those individuals that have at random been born with this trait will survive, and others won't.

Also lol at the "unnatural" argument. I spent the entire summer arguing that with one kid who went to China with me, and it was ridiculous.

As though, given the huge diversity of diets present in human culture, one diet could somehow be more "natural" than another.

 

[opaltiger]

For the record, I don't think there's anything wrong with not eating meat because you don't like the taste, I don't think they should be called vegetarians.

what the fuck

first and foremost, a vegetarian is someone who doesn't eat meat. If you want to be more specific, say idealistic vegetarian; I'm willing to bet the vast majority of vegetarians simply don't like the taste, so... why exactly should we call them something else?

 

[Murkrow]

I never said we should call then something else.
It's just that to them, there's no difference between meat and other random foods that they don't like. It's not like they avoid things that have meat in them that doesn't taste like 'meat'

I'm just stating my opinion is all.

 

[Alexi]

Negrek: Ack, sorry. Bad, bad wording on my part. Sorry.

 

[EvilCrazyMonkey]

I never said we should call then something else.

I don't think they should be called vegetarians.

Yes you did.

 

[Murkrow]

Not calling them something =/= calling them something else.

 

[Dewgong]

I do see where you're coming from, Murkrow, but I think as long as the animals are killed humanly, and painlessly, I don't have anything against it.

The pig's head being cut of with a chainsaw, that's just wrong, and sick. :(

I guess I don't have much of a problem with it because it's just how the food chain works. We are the superior "animals", besides, they taste so good.

chickens and ducks nearly put me in cardiac arrest (I have pennaphobia, the fear of flapping wings)

-holds a duck up to your face-

-flapflap-

 

[Alexi]

The pig's head being cut of with a chainsaw, that's just wrong, and sick. :(

It's quick and painless, what's the problem?

 

[Icalasari]

>.< Voted "other" as I usually vote before reading the post >.>

 

[Dannichu]

I don't buy into all this "It's okay if you're nice to the animals before killing them" stuff. If you shove all the animals into a tiny space, it leaves much more space in fields to grow crops. If you pump them full of hormones, they grow faster and you get a better meat yield. If you feed them utter crap that would have otherwise been wasted it means that the energy you put into producing meat is much more economic.

You guys who buy the free range organic dead animals are hurting the environment much more than if you'd bought the standard mass-produced battery stuff.

 

[EvilCrazyMonkey]

Not calling them something =/= calling them something else.

Say I call this apple a pear.
I am both not calling it an apple, and calling it something else (a pear) at the same time.

edit: and if we do decide to call them something else, what would it be? certainly not meat-eaters, i can tell you.