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Banning Books
- Thread starter Alexi
- Start date
#1 bro
FEELING GREAT, FEELING GOOD, HOW ARE YOU?
i don't really know where i stand on that issue (on the one hand, it's kind of weird that we're forced to go against nature and wear clothes, on the other hand, i think it would be really disgusting if anywhere you went you were at risk of seeing some 400-pound, 60-year old lady's rotten vag) but i definitely think it's sexist/stupid to say that men can be topless, but women can't. (and by "can be" i mean legally can be. our taboos are a whole other issue)
Dannichu
Tragically unbeyachted.
I don't think romance novels should really be considered porn, or at least shouldn't be in the same category as pornographic films. Regardless of whether or not they're graphically sexual, novels are generally regarded as much less "deviant"; nobody would bat an eyelid at an adult female reading erotic literature (yes, they're regarded as a "guilty pleasure", but that's more because the storytelling's so poor than because of the sex therein), while you're correct in saying that a woman found with masses of X-rated videos would be judged to a much higher standard than a man.
There's never been the same amount of censorship regarding sex in literature as there is in visual media; the best example of this is that comics and manga have to have a rating of some kind, and often requires ID to be purchased (films always do), while non-graphic novels can have any amount of sex and violence and be sold to pretty much anyone of any age without question.
Also, I think it's a fairly important point that there's an involvement in visual media pornography that doesn't happen in erotic fiction - no matter how taboo, non-consensual or whatever the sexual acts described in literature are, you know they didn't happen and no real person was hurt or humiliated in any way. On the other hand, in pornographic films, everything you see has been played out by actors, and like gq said, there's a much higher percentage of women than men that object to pornographic films, and while there's obviously not just one explanation for it, I think the frequent abuse of women in said films is likely a contributing factor.
TL;DR: Yes, romance novels and pornographic films both depict sex, but to simply group them together a) is a bit like saying frogs and elephants are the same because they've both got four legs, and b) ignores the issues of why (generally speaking) women would rather read erotic lit while men would rather watch porn.
#1 bro
FEELING GREAT, FEELING GOOD, HOW ARE YOU?
good points all around, but i think that society's judgment against a women who watches a lot of porn isn't "deviant", or "pervert". i think people are quicker to say "loser" or "sexless", i.e. people consider any woman who watches porn to only be doing so because she never has sex and is really desperate. maybe that's just me though.
surskitty
「にがいのは いやだ」って…
- Pronoun
- they
I think they should be grouped together in studies about women and porn. I'm not saying they're really in the same class, exactly, but any study about people looking at pornography should include ... well, porn. There are different levels of porn, sure, but it's still stuff made so people can get off to it.
Why do you think women would rather read erotic lit? How are the women in porn flicks abused? I'm curious.
Why do you think women would rather read erotic lit? How are the women in porn flicks abused? I'm curious.
Dannichu
Tragically unbeyachted.
(I've read and reread this post and tried to make it sound less argumentative, but I can't. I really don't mean to sound as accusing as I do ):)
You're absolutely right that there are different levels of porn, but at the same time there are different levels of erotic literature. What should, then, count as porn? Clearly the romance novels you mentioned would make good candidates, but what about something like Lady Chatterly's Lover, or a long novel that happens to have a couple of sex scenes in as part of the character development? You say porn (and by extention Elit) was made "so people can get off to it", but what literature means, as with any art form, depends entirely on the person reading it. An author could intend a piece of writing to be totally sexual and pornographic, but if a read doesn't find it so, does it still count as pornography? The line between a pornographic and a non-pornographic film is fairly firm and obvious, but (and I'm no expert on the subject, so I'll be happy to be corrected) that line's much, much blurrier with books.
Again, I'm not the world's biggest expert on the inner workings of the porn industry (probably the exact opposite), and perhaps "frequent" abuse was the wrong word, but there have been loads of cases worldwide about females in porn films being a) underage, or b) forced to be in said film against their will and/or suffering physical abuse during/after filming (the most famous case being the actress in Deep Throat being held at gunpoint while filming). In addition, there's the added moral ambiguity, similar to the one regarding prostitution, of whether or not a woman who agrees to sex/to be filmed while having sex is actually consenting if she's doing it when she quite literally has no other options.
I have no idea how common or otherwise things like this are, but since, when watching, you have no way to know for sure whether or not the actress fully consented or if the "teenager" onscreen is actually sixteen, a fair few people boycott pretty much all visual pornography.
And as to why women would rather read erotic lit than watch porn? As I said, there's no single factor, but I think the double standard discussed before (a woman found watching a pornographic film is much more shameful than a woman reading an erotic novel) is likely a big contributing factor, as is the fact that (and again, please correct me if I'm wrong) the vast amount of pornography is made by men, for men, while most erotic lit is aimed soley at women.
You're absolutely right that there are different levels of porn, but at the same time there are different levels of erotic literature. What should, then, count as porn? Clearly the romance novels you mentioned would make good candidates, but what about something like Lady Chatterly's Lover, or a long novel that happens to have a couple of sex scenes in as part of the character development? You say porn (and by extention Elit) was made "so people can get off to it", but what literature means, as with any art form, depends entirely on the person reading it. An author could intend a piece of writing to be totally sexual and pornographic, but if a read doesn't find it so, does it still count as pornography? The line between a pornographic and a non-pornographic film is fairly firm and obvious, but (and I'm no expert on the subject, so I'll be happy to be corrected) that line's much, much blurrier with books.
Again, I'm not the world's biggest expert on the inner workings of the porn industry (probably the exact opposite), and perhaps "frequent" abuse was the wrong word, but there have been loads of cases worldwide about females in porn films being a) underage, or b) forced to be in said film against their will and/or suffering physical abuse during/after filming (the most famous case being the actress in Deep Throat being held at gunpoint while filming). In addition, there's the added moral ambiguity, similar to the one regarding prostitution, of whether or not a woman who agrees to sex/to be filmed while having sex is actually consenting if she's doing it when she quite literally has no other options.
I have no idea how common or otherwise things like this are, but since, when watching, you have no way to know for sure whether or not the actress fully consented or if the "teenager" onscreen is actually sixteen, a fair few people boycott pretty much all visual pornography.
And as to why women would rather read erotic lit than watch porn? As I said, there's no single factor, but I think the double standard discussed before (a woman found watching a pornographic film is much more shameful than a woman reading an erotic novel) is likely a big contributing factor, as is the fact that (and again, please correct me if I'm wrong) the vast amount of pornography is made by men, for men, while most erotic lit is aimed soley at women.