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Bred to Death - British Kennel Club

It's wrong to allow inbreeding as a start. Person to person inbreeding isn't allowed, so why should dog to dog inbreeding be?
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I doubt that inbreeding animals will ever be illegal; most wild animals breed with their siblings anyway, they don't have the same moral issues as humans. However, I understand your point about repeated inbreeding with dogs. It's a bit twisted that dogs will be bred like this so their owners can get flashy trophies. :/

Also this.
 
Oh, those poor tigers. I always felt slightly more attached to cats than dogs, but I never knew that white tigers were actually the result of inbreeding! D:
That's just horrible.
People doing this should be caught and shot now. :/
 
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What the heck is this doing in the Debating Hall? Who on Earth is going to argue that they value dogs that look a little better than normal but suffer, over healthy, happy dogs who aren't quite as pretty as they could be?

imo this is CC/Misc Discussion material.
 
Mike the Foxhog said:
What the heck is this doing in the Debating Hall? Who on Earth is going to argue that they value dogs that look a little better than normal but suffer, over healthy, happy dogs who aren't quite as pretty as they could be?
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Idiots? Proud breeders? Showmen?

But, truth be told, it isn't much of a debate...so far, it's more of an "agree/bash bkc".
 
If you ask me, I find a healthy, happy, strong, well-loved dog to be much prettier then a sick dog who's been inbred to have genetic faults. D:

But otherwise, echoing what everyone else has said. This is horrible. :x
 
surskitty, I meant inbreeding. *goes to correct.*

Either way, there is an opposing side to this arguement. They just don't seem to be here.
 
I figured but I wanted to bitch about it anyway.

There are breeds where breed standards do not always lead to giant issues with the dogs, although this seems to focus on breeds where they are not particularly intending on getting a pretty dog: they want a functional dog that is also pretty. Tendencies towards certain genetic disorders, yes; consistent genetic disorders, no. Also, breeders are supposed to try to avoid breeding animals where the offspring are likely to have genetic issues.
 
Also, breeders are supposed to try to avoid breeding animals where the offspring are likely to have genetic issues.
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Key words being 'supposed to'. :P
 
Ethical breeders usually do that, however.

... it's just that puppy farms exist.
 
Well, on the programme I watched, it wasn't puppy farms they were talking about. Either way surskitty, your breed standards might be different, or you might have different ways of going about breeding dogs in America. I don't know. Here, show dogs aren't meant to be functional, really.

British breed standards for a bulldog says nothing about it being able to do what its working purpose was.

Although breed standards are changing to include dog welfare, not enough is being done quickly enough to have a great impact!
 
It might also be that for the breeds I mainly care about, they've already tried to make it prettier and realized that gee, they can't really... do anything.

Show dogs aren't meant to be functional, no, but the particular breed in general should not lose functionality. My Italian Greyhounds could have worked fairly well as show dogs - healthy, good coat, right general personality for a show dog, fit the breed standards, etc - but that doesn't exactly stop them from being able to menace the small animal population in the area if they get a chance, and it also doesn't make them slower and less agile.

I'm not sure about breed standards in the British Kennel Club, but I'm fairly certain that in the US, they focus more on keeping the breed the same rather than trying to make it prettier. It's already pretty: they want to keep it that way.


Also, inbreeding animals is not by itself immoral. The idea is to minimize genetic defects. If they don't have any genetic disorders - even inactive ones - then there's no actual downside to inbreeding. Inbreeding does not cause things: inbreeding simply raises the chance of any issues surfacing.

Inbreeding also has a great deal less to do with breeding between related organisms and much more to overall genetic similarity.
 
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But surskitty, the issues have surfaced and now we need to get rid of them. Inbreeding might be okay a few times, but when you know a genetic infection is going to be caused, it shouldn't be allowed. The thing is, people still do it even though they're affecting their dog's health! It's not a question of "inbreeding is wrong, agree?" it's a matter of "inbreeding has caused this and now needs to be stopped. Agree?"
 
No, I do not believe that inbreeding in general has caused this. Specific cases, yes. Inbreeding as a whole, no. This is not a case of "THEY WERE INBRED AND NOW THEY'RE VERY UNFORTUNATE ANIMALS." This is a case of "A LARGE GROUP OF BREEDERS WERE HIGHLY IRRESPONSIBLE AND NOW THEY'RE VERY UNFORTUNATE ANIMALS." Saying that just because they were doing a particular thing irresponsibly and so that thing in general should be stopped is silly. Are you going to try to insist that things that could - if done properly and intelligently - help make better and healthier dogs is immoral in general?

I do believe that they need to try to bring the breed back to where the animal's quality of life was much better. I do not believe that a blanket ban on inbreeding animals would help.
 
I love some pedigree dogs, they're just amazingly attractive and you can generally tell what their temperament is going to be because their parents will generally be the same etc.

Personally I have a great love of animals but I would always prefer a pedigree over a mutt simply because of the way pedigrees look. Health comes first, that's true - but I still want a dog I think looks good.

I love bull mastiffs :D
 
IF it were done properly, it would be fine. However, I seriously doubt that people are going to be willing to monitor these things anyway, seeing how out of hand they've got. I'm not saying inbreeding itself is immoral, but repeated inbreed will almost certainly being up generic faults and problems which is what's happening now! If people could sucessfully monitor ad control breeding, then yes, it would be fine. As of now, people have been irresponsible and let image get in the way of health.
 
The whole thing about having a particular breed is to reduce genetic variation so their offspring will be similar to them. It is still inbreeding even if they are not related. There's a reason why every breed ever has tendencies towards various genetic issues of varying severity and frequency.

It's still not the inbreeding that's causing the problem. It's selecting animals for particular traits at the expense of checking to make sure its offspring will be healthy. This is against the general idea of being an animal breeder. :|
 
shadow_lugia said:
Oh my God D: I am never having a white tiger on Zoo Tycoon again
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Ahahahahaha same.

There are people who don't really care about the health issues of this kind of breeding, but for the looks, and many people prefer well-bred pedigrees to the kind of dogs you find in a shelter. But there are also many who just don't know, so it's up to us [and that TV show] to educate them!

I always thought white tigers were endangered. Damn those people who said they were and those people who breed them for the money and stuff.
 
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