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Homosexuality

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Music Dragon said:
Also, marriage in church isn't really a purely Christian institution, is it? I mean, everybody does it. Atheists, liars, thieves, murderers and sinners of all other kinds... I don't see why gays should be the exception.
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it's kind of supposed to be...

because God is "in" the priest who is joining the two - supposedly God doesn't support Gay marriages... don't see why he wouldn't though.
 
If I recall correctly there isn't actually anywhere in the bible where it says God dislikes homosexuality? Just that some crazy fundamentalists misinterpreted something or other. I'm probably wrong though.
 
Zephyrous Castform said:
If I recall correctly there isn't actually anywhere in the bible where it says God dislikes homosexuality? Just that some crazy fundamentalists misinterpreted something or other. I'm probably wrong though.
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not bluntly... you could interpret parts as meaning sex is only for makin' babies... and gay sex doesn't do that... I reckon it's fine though!

p.s. Hi Callum!
 
Well if you follow the Bible to the letter you should also kill your wife if you find out she's not a virgin on the wedding night but I'm pretty sure this is discouraged :v

And yeah Leviticus 18:22 says 'thou shalt not lie with a man as with a woman, that is detestable' or something. Though that applies to sex and not gay feelings, so most churches say it's alright to have the feelings if you never express them or act on them. Which sucks.
 
The Bible also says something along the lines of - wait, let me go find it - ah yes: "women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with braided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array."

Sounds like a typical wedding to me!
 
It's also been scientifically proven that homosexuality, just like pretty much everything else, is in your genes. Nobody can help what genetic code they're born with. That's one of the main things in my rather strict definition of fairness. You just don't do things to people based on the way they were born. I get kind of angry when people tell you to line up in alphabetical order by your last name for lunch, because I'm an S, and get stuck near the end of the line. There have been innumerable ocassions where I finally get to the lunch ladies and they don't have any food left.

There was a rather famous case some while back (someone's probably mentioned it already) where there were identical twin boys born. One of them remained a boy, the other accidentally had his penis burnt off, so the doctors made him a girl instead. The "girl" remarked that all her life, she had felt like a man, and had been attracted to women. After she found out, she changed herself back into a man, and then proceeded to commit suicide.

We were required to read a Martin Luther King Jr. speech in reading, and as I read I realized how well it also applied to homosexuals. I mentioned it to my U.S. history teacher once, that in addition to all the various rights of citizens ("right of religion," "right to own arms," "right to fair trial," etc.) there should also be the "right to sexuality." Perhaps, if a homosexual really wants to, they can become transexual, but a lot of people don't have the money, really don't want to change their sex, or are unwilling to go pretty much any surgery, be it from fear of needles or of potential infection. Not to mention that any transexual would have some trouble getting used to the changes.
 
shadow_lugia said:
Perhaps, if a homosexual really wants to, they can become transexual, but a lot of people don't have the money, really don't want to change their sex, or are unwilling to go pretty much any surgery, be it from fear of needles or of potential infection. Not to mention that any transexual would have some trouble getting used to the changes.
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Uh.. I'm not really sure how to read this off, to be honest.
There is a HUGE difference between sexuality and gender identity - they're almost polar opposites. Transexuals are not in the position they're in because of who they like, but rather who they FEEL like. The brains of males, females, and even asexuals are wired differently, and your mind knows there's something wrong if the wiring doesn't fit the body.
On top of that, it costs buckets of money that's uncovered by any insurance, and years of therapy. Not to mention it's nearly impossible to clear old records of name and gender, let alone not have some scumbag dig it up later for blackmail - oh trust me how often it happens. And fear of needles or an infection does not equal ending up with the wrong organ - on top of that, just to be with someone you care about. Everyone DOES deserve a right to sexuality, just like they deserve a right to the proper body and association. But they NEVER cross over.
 
L'il Dwagie said:
Uh.. I'm not really sure how to read this off, to be honest.
There is a HUGE difference between sexuality and gender identity - they're almost polar opposites. Transexuals are not in the position they're in because of who they like, but rather who they FEEL like. The brains of males, females, and even asexuals are wired differently, and your mind knows there's something wrong if the wiring doesn't fit the body.
On top of that, it costs buckets of money that's uncovered by any insurance, and years of therapy. Not to mention it's nearly impossible to clear old records of name and gender, let alone not have some scumbag dig it up later for blackmail - oh trust me how often it happens. And fear of needles or an infection does not equal ending up with the wrong organ - on top of that, just to be with someone you care about. Everyone DOES deserve a right to sexuality, just like they deserve a right to the proper body and association. But they NEVER cross over.
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I don't follow...?

How does the fact that they're not the same thing make them polar opposites? They're different concepts, but I can draw parallels: both revolve largely around sex/gender and self-identity. Where are you getting that your brain is 'wired' differently? Can you actually speak for transsexuals in general on the importance of clearing records and acting like nothing happened? Wouldn't many find it more painful to feel like it's some huge beast of a thing that must be hidden?

What are you even trying to say past that point? D:
 
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Zhorken said:
I don't follow...?

How does the fact that they're not the same thing make them polar opposites? They're different concepts, but I can draw parallels: both revolve largely around sex and self-identity. Where are you getting that your brain is 'wired' differently? Can you actually speak for transsexuals in general on the importance of clearing records and acting like nothing happened? Wouldn't many find it more painful to feel like it's some huge beast of a thing that must be hidden?

What are you even trying to say past that point?
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It's a matter of two completely different points and issues, I do see them as polar opposites because as far as I'm concerned there is absolutely no relation or crossover. On one side of the fence, you like who you like. On the other, you act like who you are. It's a common suggestion that gays/lesbians change genders, which is shortsighted not only for the reasons I listed (Cost, difficulty, etcetera) but also because it's completely improper. In short liking one gender does not mean you're other.
I didn't say -my- brain is wired differently, I said between males and females predominantly there are differences as well as a sexual identity.
I believe I can since I'm -going through it myself- as we speak. It IS painful to brush it under the bed, but it's a hell of a lot worse to have it outed. That's a common consensus.
And I'm getting at the apparent misunderstanding by Shadow Lugia in that post, I don't really get how that isn't clear..
 
They can't be unrelated and be opposites. That is a relation. And, yes, I get that they're entirely different things; they can be entirely different, related things. You don't get to use your own definition of "opposite" or "relation" to suit yourself.

You did say that your brain was wired differently. You said that a transsexual person has the brain of one gender in (until surgery) the opposite sex's body. That the brain is wired differently than what would fit that body. And you are transsexual, yes...?

You can't assume that everyone else going through it is going through all the same things. People are different and will have different reactions and feelings towards being the wrong sex. I really find it hard to believe that there's any great consensus among all transsexuals. But in your circle, sure, there may very well be.

Also note that I say people are different. Boys and girls aren't wired so differently that they can't help but develop different personalities; that's nearly all society's doing.

Yes, I get that you were telling shadow_lugia that she wasn't making sense. That much was discernible. But your words were so jumbled together that I can't even tell what your point was supposed to be; you touch three different subjects in one sentence and I have no idea how you're trying to relate them.

I guess I also don't get this whole elevation of gender identity — or whatever self-identity — I see from some people? As if, no matter what a person is really like, her identity is as a female, or a lesbian, or an Asian, or...

EDIT: Also I still don't see where you're getting your assertion that "between males and females predominantly there are differences".
 
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Boys and girls aren't wired so differently that they can't help but develop different personalities; that's nearly all society's doing.
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Actually, psychologically speaking, men and women have a lot of differences; most of what's been observed is the way they communicate, how they interpret social concepts and how they respond to conflict (this has been attributed to hormones iirc). Male and female are actually quite different, but they don't develop different personalities; it's just the way they communicate their ideas.

it's kind of supposed to be...
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According to whom? I don't care about God, why does he have to be all up in my relationships and stuff?
Marriage should be a legal contract, not a religious one (unless you want it to be).
 
It's also been scientifically proven that homosexuality, just like pretty much everything else, is in your genes. Nobody can help what genetic code they're born with. That's one of the main things in my rather strict definition of fairness.
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No it has not. Never use the phrase "scientifically proven". What has been demonstrated is the very probable presence of a genetic element in the determination of sexual orientation; no one is claiming there is a gay gene (which, I must point out with some amusement, would be called the straight gene in accordance with gene naming conventions).
 
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