pokémon, characteristics of life, biology

[1. Luftballon]

pokémon, characteristics of life, biology

actually, that's too high of a chance.

Also, on the subject of pokemon being alive:

Well, pokemon:

Adapt and evolve to their habitats, respond to external and internal stimuli, and can reproduce (to some extent).

So I would say yes.

actually response to environment, use of energy, and evolution and adaption are fairly questionable, too.

so, what does Evolution count as? as in pokemon Evolution? is changing to a new form not considered "adapting to your environment", no matter how rapid it occurs? and pokemon do respond to their environment. If there were a fire in a largefield, wouldn't all the pokemon run away? if there was a new food supply, such as a berry orchard, wouldn't pokemon go over and eat the berries?. As far of use of energy, aside from using attacks, I think you have a point.

when have you seen any pokemon actually run from a fire?

and evolution is just growth, not adaption.

I believe it was in an episode of the anime. Or a movie. But if you want a better example, all of the inhabitants of that one forest in the movie Jirachi: Wishmaker ran from the giant fake groudon thing. I count that as external stimuli.

:| anime has plenty of stuff that makes it an unreliable source for pokebiology.

Well, I would think that a species as advanced as pokemon would run from a fire, especially if they were grass type. I mean, pokemon do not just sit around stationary and wait for someone to catch them.

"Responding to the environment" could also be running from a trainer trying to catch it, or responding to another Pokémon attacking it. A wild Pokémon will fight without orders from a trainer, so it still must be able to respond to the environment on its own.

As far as evolution goes... do Pokémon actually grow? We've always been told that they grow by evolving, but is this actually growing by biology's standards? Do they have cells that function as a living thing's and divide as the Pokémon grows?

And I remembered something - Mewtwo was supposedly created from Mew's DNA. Logical assumption that, then, Pokémon have DNA?

eh, I guess.



vulpix is confirmed to grow, as are a few of the snakes and probably plenty of other stuff.



go ask on of the resident biologist on the first, the second is probable by pokedex.



well, except for the fact that deoxys apparently is living space alien dna and stuff. mew is stated somewhere to have dna for everything, but mewtwo's creation varies between the various canons.

Ditto has cells.

relevant posts, a bit generously defined.

 

[Wargle]

Re: pokémon, characteristics of life, biology

Pokémon Evoloution could also be seen as metamorphasis.

but:

Growlithe

Outside Stimuli: Fire Stone

Result: an evolution

could go either way imo.

 

[Pwnemon]

Re: pokémon, characteristics of life, biology

All the things of life:

They eat and give waste (Only in anime but effing games you don't even eat and we know humans are alive).

They maintain homeostasis (There've been many Pokedex entries on such sort of thing)

They reproduce

They react to stimuli

 

[RespectTheBlade]

Re: pokémon, characteristics of life, biology

Good idea to make this another thread.

Well, to start I count evolution (pokemon) as an evolution(theory), especially in transformations such as Magikarp to Gyarados, Febass to Milotic, Kabuto to Kabutops, etc. And certain evolutions, such as Scyther to Scizor and Onix to Steelix, could count more as an adaptation then an evolution.

 

[1. Luftballon]

Re: pokémon, characteristics of life, biology

...evolution doesn't work that way.

 

[[O]]

Re: pokémon, characteristics of life, biology

...evolution doesn't work that way.

I think that in terms of Pokemon, what we refer to as evolution is more of metamorphosis, i.e. caterpillars metamorphosing (sp?) into butterflies.

All the things of life:

They eat and give waste (Only in anime but effing games you don't even eat and we know humans are alive).

They maintain homeostasis (There've been many Pokedex entries on such sort of thing)

They reproduce

They react to stimuli

IMHO Pokemon are obviously alive not only because of these four criteria, but just intuitively they are obviously living creatures.

And certain evolutions, such as Scyther to Scizor and Onix to Steelix, could count more as an adaptation then an evolution.

Similar to how Darwin's finches adapted to their environment so that they could survive.



For a Pokemon such as Burmy or Cherrim, I guess it would be adapting to the environment much like how a hermit crab quickly finds new, er, house (for lack of a better term), to suit its body once it outgrows the first one.

 

[1. Luftballon]

Re: pokémon, characteristics of life, biology

I think that in terms of Pokemon, what we refer to as evolution is more of metamorphosis, i.e. caterpillars metamorphosing (sp?) into butterflies.

well, yes, that's kind of the point.

IMHO Pokemon are obviously alive not only because of these four criteria, but just intuitively they are obviously living creatures.

not only are there more criteria, eat and give waste isn't exactly a criteria (plants don't really eat per se), and the point is not whether they seem alive, because we already know that!

Similar to how Darwin's finches adapted to their environment so that they could survive.

mm, I'd think that these are more reactions to stimuli, because they're not inherited.

(incidentally, that's not how it works~)

For a Pokemon such as Burmy or Cherrim, I guess it would be adapting to the environment much like how a hermit crab quickly finds new, er, house (for lack of a better term), to suit its body once it outgrows the first one.

that is... not the relevant definition of adaptation in definitions of life.

 

[Pwnemon]

Re: pokémon, characteristics of life, biology

Actually, the technical thing is to take in energy and give waste, but whatever. TRUST ME IM TAKING BIOLOGY AS WE SPEAK WE COVERED THIS LAST WEEK.

 

[1. Luftballon]

Re: pokémon, characteristics of life, biology

yeah, uh, if it's standard eighth grade bio, they gloss over lots and lots of stuff and I had a teacher who pointed that out and he still had to gloss over lots of stuff.

 

[Sandstone-Shadow]

Re: pokémon, characteristics of life, biology

Pokémon Evoloution could also be seen as metamorphasis.

but:

Growlithe

Outside Stimuli: Fire Stone

Result: an evolution

could go either way imo.

This is kind of a good point, too. Growlithe (and others that only evolve by an evolutionary stone, etc.) don't "grow" on their own, which I don't believe meets the definition.

vulpix is confirmed to grow, as are a few of the snakes and probably plenty of other stuff.

True.

 

[Adriane]

Re: pokémon, characteristics of life, biology

They eat and give waste (Only in anime but effing games you don't even eat and we know humans are alive).

They do that in the games, too :?

 

[opaltiger]

Re: pokémon, characteristics of life, biology

Are you seriously questioning response to stimuli? If Pokemon didn't respond to stimuli, they would do absolutely nothing. In fact, this might sound like a tautology, but if Pokemon weren't alive they'd be dead. I have no idea why you're even having this discussion. In fact here:

1. Organisation: made of cells, check.
2. Homeostasis: without it they'd be dead, check.
3. Metabolism: do Pokemon eat? yes. do they use energy? yes. do they excrete waste? yes. Check!
4. Growth: before evolution: smaller. After evolution: bigger. (usually). check!
5. Response to stimuli: do wild Pokemon stand around doing nothing? no. check!
6. Adaptation: inevitable due to heredity, which is self-apparent from breeding. check!
7. Reproduction: what do you think eggs are. check!

wow that was hard

 

[Skylark]

Re: pokémon, characteristics of life, biology

I have no disagreement with pokemon being alive but it doesn't make sense to me how a skitty and a wailord can breed. Entirely different species can breed - therefore they are not seperate species anymore since the offspring can still reproduce. How does that make any sense? O.O

 

[Adriane]

Re: pokémon, characteristics of life, biology

I have no disagreement with pokemon being alive but it doesn't make sense to me how a skitty and a wailord can breed. Entirely different species can breed - therefore they are not seperate species anymore since the offspring can still reproduce. How does that make any sense? O.O

Okay, so they bent the rules on what can fuck what, but I mean it would be relatively pointless if only the same species could breed with each other. Additionally, there are *some* real-life animal species that can breed with each other and produce offspring (in some cases, even the offspring are fertile)

What I don't understand is how you can say two distinct species aren't different species anymore because they can have a baby...?

 

[Music Dragon]

Re: pokémon, characteristics of life, biology

What I don't understand is how you can say two distinct species aren't different species anymore because they can have a baby...?

Because he's assuming that offspring is fertile when, and only when, the parents belong to the same species.

 

[Pwnemon]

Re: pokémon, characteristics of life, biology

Furthermore, they display heredity. A pokemon will always inherit from one to three of it's parents' IVs.

 

[1. Luftballon]

Re: pokémon, characteristics of life, biology

wait, they do? cite, please?

 

[Pwnemon]

Re: pokémon, characteristics of life, biology

Somebody said so. I trusted them but Bulbapedia says nothing of the sort D:.

 

[Adriane]

Re: pokémon, characteristics of life, biology

Well, IVs are passed down in some fashion--hence the phrase "breeding for IVs", I just don't exactly know how.

On topic, I don't see how it's a debate. They are born from eggs after a male and female mate, they eventually die. They eat/shit and sleep. They can get sick. They have minds of their own and generally exhibit very animalistic behaviours and have animal features. Of course there are some "up in the air" Pokémon, like Voltorb, but generally speaking...

 

[Butterfree]

Re: pokémon, characteristics of life, biology

Yes, Pokémon do inherit IVs from their parents. What the hell. Haven't you ever heard of IV breeding? The precise mechanics have been tweaked between generations; I think in HG/SS it boils down to basically "generate IVs randomly; then pick three stats at random, overwriting each with a random parent's IV in that stat."

:| anime has plenty of stuff that makes it an unreliable source for pokebiology.

....what? Where the heck else are you going to get your information? Video games are unreliable sources about biology by their very nature; taking your information about the real world from video games would result in a skewed idea of it, to say the least. If you see Pokémon running from fires in the anime and not in the video games, it's pretty damn obvious which one is actually portraying the creators' idea of what Pokémon would do in that situation if they were real.

Otherwise, echo opal's post. This discussion is completely ridiculous.