Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread

[M&F]

Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread

Eighth notch on Lysandre's cell wall.

In the end, I have managed to persuade the warden to replenish my nail polish. The strength of his beliefs simply couldn't match the strength of my beliefs. After all, low people such as that man are only good for taking and taking what belongs to others.

I do digress; my neutrality in the matter of the escaping prisoners is preserved. A great mind such as mine must maintain its sights on the bigger picture, rather than on such everyday trifles. Although... admittedly, the loss of freedom does, too, imply a certain loss of reach. Alas, for the plain entertainment of it, I might just keep an eye on what those lowly criminals might be up to.

It doesn't seem as if anyone's suffered the same fate as poor Courtney did two notches ago. On the surface, it might seem as if the tensions in the compound are waning, but the night was hardly silent. Why, myself, I have clearly heard two people targeting JackPK, and that must not have been the end of it. I do grow curious as to what shadows lurk these barred walls... But it simply isn't so much of a concern as to put a serious effort forth into investigation.

Now then, one thing I can still truly set my mind to, and that is beauty. Tragically, most of my fellow inmates have let go of that particular concern since their incarceration. They simply do not understand the importance of it, and this place grows uglier by the minute. It ultimately falls to me alone to preserve the beauty, and I won't fai- hmmmm? What is this that I smell in my nail polish container? Could this be... a low-quality replacement, rather than the actual substance that was once within??

GRAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!

... I stand corrected. Today, there has been one casualty: my nail polish bottle.

No one has died.

72 hours for discussion.

 

[Autumn]

Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread

What is this that I smell in my nail polish container? Could this be... a low-quality replacement, rather than the actual substance that was once within??

GRAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!

... I stand corrected. Today, there has been one casualty: my nail polish bottle.

lysandre more confirmed for kristoph gavin

anyway wtf

 

[Zero Moment]

Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread

The two people targeting JackPK might have been Mafia and a Doctor. Does your role announce when you're targeted every night?

 

[Phoenixsong]

Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread

Could be a doctor, could be a kill attempt, but could be any number of other things. I'd imagine that any inspector-esque roles would be curious about him after his partial claim yesterday, for example.

I am curious as to why we got that announcement, though... maybe Jack does have some kind of broadcasting power, although it doesn't jive with his claim and doesn't seem very Petrel-y in general (unless it's something to do with Johto TR crying for Daddy to come home over the radio?); that said, it might not be a power you want to admit to having right away. It could also be that someone else has a power that broadcasts how many people went after their target. Roles that can see who or what targeted someone else aren't uncommon; maybe instead they can reveal the number of targeters to the game at large at the cost of not being able to see/reveal the actual actions or names of the targeting players.

 

[Autumn]

Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread

There's a lot of options but it shouldn't be ruled out entirely, the idea that jack is mafia and got targeted with a block power and idk maybe someone ELSE had the broadcasting power??? just spitballing here, there are way too many options for anything to be conclusively stated.

 

[JackPK]

Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread

I definitely don't have a broadcasting power or anything similar. Also, at the risk of endangering myself by giving away too much, I will say that I targeted myself last night, so that accounts for one of those targets. If we assume that the public infodump is the result of a night action, that would likely account for the other person targeting me.

That's the most I can deduct/assume from the situation. I'm not sure if there's anything else that can be reasonably figured out yet.

 

[Autumn]

Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread

this game is bizarre

 

[kyeugh]

Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread

I'll come clean; i targetted Jack last night. I won't tell exactly what my role is, but i will say that for some reason, my night's results were targetted on myself for some reason. (I think this should be testament to my innocence; if i had tried to kill Jack, i'd be dead right now.) Anyway, Jack's power appears to reverse actions taken on him during the night onto his aggressors, which explains why the results ended up regarding me and not him.

That's not a kill power, to oversimplify it, so i think for right now that should clear his name.

Any other thoughts?

 

[Autumn]

Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread

That means that if both you and Jack are telling the truth (and I'm a little suspicious of... a lot of things... tbh but let's just assume it's all truths for now) then the Mafia didn't target Jack and the reason no one died was due to some other cause.

not that it really leads in any direction... but just sayin

 

[Phoenixsong]

Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread

Hmmm. Interesting information. Time to spitball again!

Here's what's been said so far:

- Jack can choose to target himself, and can presumably target other people (as implied by what he deduced based on asking MF for clarification—if he could unambiguously only target himself, what reason is there to suspect that a forced night action use would target another player?). He targeted no one on N1 and targeted himself last night. He doesn't have a broadcasting power, but whatever it is it does have something to do with disguises.

- Nira targeted Jack last night, but their action was bounced back to them.

- Lysandre somehow knows that (at least?) two people targeted Jack last night. He didn't seem to hear anyone targeting anyone else on the night Superbird died.

So, what can we guess at based on this?

- If both Jack and Nira are telling the truth and their suspicions are correct, they probably account for the two actions Lysandre overheard (and presumably Lysandre just overheard the initial targeting and not the results of the action, because the final target of Nira's action was Nira). I say "probably" because we don't know for a fact that only two people targeted Jack (although I'd agree it's likely), and we also don't know that Jack targeting himself would register as something Lysandre would hear.

- Also if both are telling the truth, obviously neither used a kill action, otherwise one or both would be dead. I wouldn't say it "clears" either as not mafia, or even that they don't have a kill action—just means they didn't use it, at least not successfully. This means our mafia kill is likely still unaccounted for, yeah. Maf + doc on someone else, maf was roleblocked, delayed kill, outright mafia inaction, etc., etc., we have no way to know, etc..

- BUT if they're telling the truth, their suspicions are correct AND they are the only two targeters (i.e., Jack targeting himself is accounted for in the "two people", Nira counts as the other one even though they ultimately targeted themselves), then Lysandre's announcement didn't come from a targeting action made against Jack—otherwise that would be three people, not two. That means that either Lysandre's announcement is not related to a role at all and is some other feature of the game, or that someone has a general "reveal the number of actions taken" action that blanket reveals the number of actions against everyone.

Of course, if the last one is true then that means that a whole bunch of people didn't use their action last night. Which I guess would account for the no-kill? That's unlikely, though, because I know I used my action, and I sure as heck didn't target Jack unless my action was redirected to him somehow. I could've been roleblocked, I guess, but how likely is it that literally no one else with a targeting power acted/literally everyone else was roleblocked? And wouldn't roleblocking someone have been announced similarly, since they'd need to target someone to block them? So that's probably not how it works.

As a third option, I guess someone could have an "allow Lysandre to hear what's going on" power that targets randomly, and random targets in mafia games are not always considered "targeting actions" for mechanics like this since the user didn't actively choose who they hit.

If Lysandre's announcement is a game feature rather than the result of someone's action, why didn't he hear anything N1? Maybe it's triggered by multiple people targeting one player, and on the first night no two people had the same target? I dunno, I figure it's more likely that someone has some kind of announcement power, but that's also a possibility.

- If either Nira or Jack is telling the truth but is incorrect in their assumptions—Lysandre didn't pick up Jack targeting himself, Nira ultimately hit themselves and thus didn't register as targeting Jack, etc.—theeeeen one or both of the actions Lysandre mentions could be anything, really. Could be ZM's maf + doc suspicion, or like I said, I wouldn't be at all surprised if at least one inspectorish role was curious about Jack's claim.

- If Jack has been honest this whole time and both of their suspicions are correct, I would guess that Jack's power disguises his target as their targeter (e.g., Nira, as Ghetsis, would appear to be affecting Ghetsis rather than Petrel), which is silly flavor speak for "bounces the action back at its user". Although maybe he can choose the disguise his target will wear, e.g. for whatever reason he consciously said "I want to disguise myself as Nira/Ghetsis tonight"? Would that mean he could also say "I want to disguise Altissimo all four of them as Kratos", and anything that affects Alti that night would actually affect me? And what would happen if multiple people hit Jack's target—would all of their actions bounce to whoever the target was disguised as? Or would more silly flavor shenanigans happen and they'd all just bounce back at themselves somehow? I'm sure MF can't answer that, especially because I don't even know if I'm right and don't expect Jack to confirm, but now I'm curious as to how such a role would work...

- If one or both of them are not telling the truth, then, um. I guess they're mafia? Neither has said anything that sounds like a viable reason for an innocent to lie. They've both volunteered information when I honestly don't think any of us were expecting any, so it's not like they partial-claimed to defend themselves or anything, and lies like that would just be misleading to town. BUT of course we don't know whether they're lying or not right now, so we can't act on that. I guess it's reason enough to keep an eye on them if something contradictory shows up, though... at any rate, this would also mean the two actions Lysandre heard could be anything.

Agh. So many possibilities, nothing to actually go on. But! I have an idea. Dunno whether it will actually clear anything up/definitively prove that Jack or Nira is telling the truth or lying, but if nothing else I'm really curious about Kristophsandre, and also I want people to talk aaaaaaaaa *flails*.

So let's test this out - did anyone else target Jack last night? Did anyone target him on N1? We just need a yes or no answer, no need to specify who you did target if not him, no need to reveal what your action was. But if anyone else did target him this past night, maybe it might provide insight into the kinds of things Lysandre announces in the future, whether or not he can hear self-targeting, that sort of thing.

For that matter, did anyone target Nira last night? If some kind of switching shenaniganry happened, maybe someone else's action was bounced someplace weird as a result of targeting one or the other?

As I said, I didn't target Jack last night, and I didn't target Nira, so outside of redirection I shouldn't be responsible for anything Lysandre heard. I didn't target Jack on N1, either.

 

[Autumn]

Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread

I didn't target Jack or Nira, and I didn't do so on n1, either.

as for all your textwall, well I read it all and... interesting stuff..... but I've got no idea what to make of it and I doubt at this point that any conclusions can be drawn. I feel like if anyone did something last night which would be relevant to the no-kill thing or the Jack broadcast weirdness, they would have already come forward?? like, Jack and Nira both did but we haven't heard from anyone else. Of course, several players have just not said anything yet (come on for god's sake you JOIN the mafia game) but I feel like everyone's had ample time to see it? So like I feel like unless someone steps forward with "well i was GONNA keep this secret bUT" or Jack/Nira clarifies on their role (which... it would make some amount of sense not to if they have told the truth so far) then we're... not gonna get much of anywhere?? i dunno maybe i'm being too quick to dismiss but I actually am having... some trouble figuring out what to make of the past night so like. I just... don't know that I can add a whole lot and if Kratos is still confused well then there's No goddamn chance lmao.

 

[Phoenixsong]

Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread

Yeah, like I said, there aren't a lot of conclusions to draw, but I dunno, I just feel better actually thinking all the possibilities through rather than just shrugging it off. I like posting my spitballing stuff because you never know when it's going to get someone else to notice or remember something, so why not? And dammit, if no one else is going to attempt to say anything remotely interesting then someone has to.

...and, yeah, they could've come forward before now (although it hasn't been that long since Nira suggested they might be responsible for a target, as opposed to when Jack said he might be, so idk), but sometimes it takes actually demanding a specific answer about something from people to get them to talk at all, so. >| TALK. Look, people who think they have nothing to contribute, I've given you something to contribute! It's not that haaaaaard

Look, I will even be nice and summarize the actual request for those of you who don't have time to read all that: Simple yes or no answer, did anyone target Jack or Nira last night?

 

[Autumn]

Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread

psychology shows the best way is actually to address them directly lmao

BUTTERFREE
VIPERA MAGNIFICA
ZAPI
FLORA
I LIEK SCYTHERS
NEGREK
ZERO MOMENT

DID ANY OF YOU TARGET JACK OR NIRA LAST NIGHT YES OR NO

 

[Zero Moment]

Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread

Nope.

 

[Negrek]

Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread

Ha! Only two nights into their crime spree, and already those upstarts are having trouble. It's pathetic what passes for a criminal organization these days. Team Rocket could teach them a thing or two, mark my words.

Of course I didn't bother Petrel ((JackPK)) last night. Team Rocket admins are perfectly capable of carrying out their work without my assistance.

And if I overheard anyone creeping about at night, you can be sure I wouldn't yell about it, either. In fact, the only people I know who make so much noise ((ILS' role, Alligates' role)) are concerned with broadcasting what happened to them, not what happened to other people.

 

[I liek Squirtles]

Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread

Nope.

 

[Vipera Magnifica]

Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread

My action isn't even a targeting action, and I haven't used it either night, so no.

 

[Butterfree]

Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread

I didn't target either of them, either.

On the other hand, I got an interesting message last night:

A grunt suddenly approaches you, claiming to have the results of the investigation on Superbird that you called for. You've never met them before, but they're starkly convinced that you are their commander. Despite this rather shoddy display of competence, the dispatch might be of use to you...

According to the report, Superbird's power(s) were as follows:

-When used at night, targets a dead player and another, living player (both chosen by the user; living target cannot be oneself). At the end of the night, if this action is successful, the living player will be informed of the dead player's "powers". This "power" is good for only five uses, and expending the final use will cause the user's death.

This has nothing to do with my role - I was clearly being targeted by someone else. What's more, it really sounds like the role that's being described here is the role of the person who targeted me, since the effect (me, a living player, learning the role of Superbird, a dead player) is exactly as described there.

I'm not sure exactly what this means. As far as I can tell, the possibilities are:

1) There simply happen to be two people with this power, Superbird and a mystery person. It's coincidence that Superbird happened to be the first person to die and thus the first dead person the mystery person reported on.
2) The disguise shenanigans with Superbird, however that happened, resulted in Superbird's role being misidentified as the mystery person... presumably by coincidence? I mean, if this is what happened, then this is the mystery person's only power, so there's no way they're responsible for disguising Superbird, at least. The flavor definitely seems to fit - disguising a person as someone else would make it appear as if they had the role of the person they're disguised as. I think that makes more sense than disguises as a convoluted redirection thing, flavor-wise; if this is a game heavy on inspectionish roles, then disguises being a thing that mixes them up makes sense as an element of the game (and means any inspectors might want to be slightly wary).
3) The mafia is trying to mess with me. Presumably this initial message would be sent in the hope that I'd assume it's genuine because it describes a role that sounds self-consistent, and then they're planning to continue to send me misleading information. I'm not really sure to what end they'd be doing that, though; this supposedly targets dead players, and the mafia trying to mislead us about what roles dead players had doesn't sound all that useful to them, compared to the many more useful things they could be doing if they had the power to send misleading messages like this? I'd definitely lean towards this being genuine.

So, all in all I'm leaning towards explanation 2. I'm assuming that if a person is disguised when they die, they remain disguised for the purposes of these sorts of night actions - otherwise somebody would have had to disguise the dead Superbird again last night by coincidence, which would be pretty weird.

Now, mystery person could continue to perform these role inspections when people die, but the question is, do we actually want that information to be public? Does publishing the roles of dead players help the town more than the mafia? I'm not entirely sure. Something we might want to discuss.

 

[Autumn]

Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread

4. Another person's power involves taking the power of a dead player (or perhaps they just automatically assume the power of the first dead player) and therefore they ended up as Superbird. Might explain some of the disguise shenanigans?

 

[Zapi]

Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread

Okay sorry this is so late, school just started back up for me so I've been a bit busier than usual. (Also I have terrible memory and I always forget to save PMs to my sent items folder so... I wanted to make sure I was actually remembering what I did last night phase correctly lol)

Anyway, I have the power to broadcast the number of people who targeted a user of my choice, and last night I targeted Nira. I'm guessing it was redirected to Jack because he swapped himself with Nira or something? But yeah, that's where the broadcast came from (and I didn't target anyone N0, which is why we didn't get any similar information from Lysandre in his first post)

I have no idea what's going on with this whole Superbird business and I'm too tired to attempt to make any more sense of it, but. To answer Butterfree's last question, I don't really see making the abilities of dead players public as being particularly beneficial to either side... The only thing it really tells us is that it's unlikely that any remaining players have that exact same ability, but considering how unique a lot of the powers this game seem to be so far, that's... not all that helpful? But I guess it doesn't really hurt, either. I dunno.