Premarital sex?

[XS-Nitrogen]

Yes, if what you think is right happens to also be ridiculously stupid. (It is.)

All I really have to say to this is that perhaps he feels that your beliefs are equally stupid. It goes both ways. Imagine that the situation is reversed; Somebody is telling you to go against something that you believe strongly in, with the primary argument being "It's stupid." You aren't likely to go along with it, are you? It's the same idea. Not really an argument here, just pointing it out ;)

E only respects you if e is willing to arbitrarily wait one or two or three years to have sex? What the fuck? Why do you need to test your partner by hanging things over eir head? How about judging the person by HOW E ACTS AROUND YOU FOR THE YEARS YOU ARE DATING?

I don't think the point is to hang something over their head to "test" them. I think it's more that the person would have to be willing to respect the fact that you might want to wait until later in the relationship before you have sex. I don't think it makes a difference if 'later' means next week, next year, or until after marriage, the idea is the same. If one person isn't comfortable having sex for one reason or another, I think the other partner should respect that as opposed to pressuring them, even if that partner doesn't neccecarily feel the same way.

Of course, I'm also interested in seeing what he has to say about this. The way I see it, "Right" and "Wrong" are dependant on perspective and your own moral values, so nobody's really going to be able to convince anybody else of anything here. But I'm still curious as to what you guys think :)

EDIT: This is the post he was talking about. I just wanted to make a couple of slight edits.

 

[Eevee]

Well, as XS put it before deleting his post, it makes me feel uncomfortable, the idea of having sex before marriage.

This has nothing to do with any known definition of 'right'.

Wouldn't it be more respectful to wait until I am comfortable?

Yes, but remaining uncomfortable with the intent of judging your partner is still Doin' It Wrong.

But, as for the present, I believe that to be the time that I would be most comfortable.

And why does marriage make any difference?

It is mostly rooted in me being brought up as a Christian Catholic

ff

I don't think the point is to hang something over their head to "test" them. I think it's more that the person would have to be willing to respect the fact that you might want to wait until later in the relationship before you have sex.

See above.

Also be aware that some people expect sex to be a healthy natural part of a relationship (and rightfully so), so an attitude like this can potentially frustrate and drive away someone who is otherwise perfect for you.

I wouldn't be thrilled about being in a relationship with someone who, for example, didn't feel comfortable going to movies together. I would be even less thrilled if the person did not see this as something to work through but was simply waiting for me to enter into a permanent and expensive contract before having a fully-featured relationship. For no coherent reason.

I don't think it makes a difference if 'later' means next week, next year, or until after marriage, the idea is the same. If one person isn't comfortable having sex for one reason or another, I think the other partner should respect that as opposed to pressuring them, even if that partner doesn't neccecarily feel the same way.

So what about the other partner? Someone who does want sex can just fuck off? Why doesn't e get any respect?

 

[Icalasari]

This has nothing to do with any known definition of 'right'.

Right and wrong are pretty objective

Yes, but remaining uncomfortable with the intent of judging your partner is still Doin' It Wrong.

I already said that that was more of a bad choice of words on my part >.<

And why does marriage make any difference?

Because I believe that, at that time, I would feel more comfortable. I could easily be wrong and feel more comfortable earlier or later, however

ff

What does that mean?

Also be aware that some people expect sex to be a healthy natural part of a relationship (and rightfully so), so an attitude like this can potentially frustrate and drive away someone who is otherwise perfect for you.

Well, I am sure that then I would feel more comfortable with sex in that example, so it wouldn't be that much of an issue

I wouldn't be thrilled about being in a relationship with someone who, for example, didn't feel comfortable going to movies together. I would be even less thrilled if the person did not see this as something to work through but was simply waiting for me to enter into a permanent and expensive contract before having a fully-featured relationship. For no coherent reason.

...Read my post again, please. Pay attention to the bolded parts in particular:

Wouldn't it be more respectful to wait until I am comfortable? Heck, in the end, I might not even wait until marriage! But, as for the present, I believe that to be the time that I would be most comfortable

It is mostly rooted in me being brought up as a Christian Catholic, though, so, as I said before, I could decide at any time that I am comfortable, and the time isn't necessarily after marriage.

So what about the other partner? Someone who does want sex can just fuck off? Why doesn't e get any respect?

That there is the only problem. But what is one going to do then? Either way, somebody is going to get shafted. Lets put it this way:

So then what about the partner who doesn't want sex until they are comfortable? So they should just go through a bunch of discomfort, potentially ruining the relationship? Why should they not get any respect?

 

[surskitty]

They could always try to sort out, y'know, the root of their discomfort.

 

[Furretsu]

All I really have to say to this is that perhaps he feels that your beliefs are equally stupid. It goes both ways. Imagine that the situation is reversed; Somebody is telling you to go against something that you believe strongly in, with the primary argument being "It's stupid." You aren't likely to go along with it, are you? It's the same idea. Not really an argument here, just pointing it out ;)

You're right. That was poor arguing on my part. Thanks for pointing this out.

 

[Icalasari]

They could always try to sort out, y'know, the root of their discomfort.

Sometimes, the root could be as simple as, "I want to make sure this person is perfect for me, absolutely, 100% perfect, before I give up my virginity"

That is the root of my discomfort. And that is why I could easily end up becoming comfortable before marriage, if I believe the person is right for me. At the present though, I believe that the moment would come upon marriage

 

[Furretsu]

Sometimes, the root could be as simple as, "I want to make sure this person is perfect for me, absolutely, 100% perfect, before I give up my virginity"

That is the root of my discomfort. And that is why I could easily end up becoming comfortable before marriage, if I believe the person is right for me. At the present though, I believe that the moment would come upon marriage

I believe you're seeing sex and virginity as sacred; most people do not see sex as some big important ritual that will define your love for a person. This is likely where you differentiate from the majority of users in this thread.

 

[Eevee]

Sometimes, the root could be as simple as, "I want to make sure this person is perfect for me, absolutely, 100% perfect, before I give up my virginity"

sexual virginity is not a possession to be lost. nor is it anything special or unique, any more than television virginity or sushi virginity or skydiving virginity

it is merely a label for something you have not yet managed to do, invented by people who cannot get laid and want to pretend they are cool anyway

At the present though, I believe that the moment would come upon marriage

still curious what the hell marriage has to do with anything

 

[Icalasari]

I believe you're seeing sex and virginity as sacred; most people do not see sex as some big important ritual that will define your love for a person. This is likely where you differentiate from the majority of users in this thread.

Don't forget, I was raised in a Christian-Catholic environment. They tend to drill in that sex and virginity is sacred at a very young age. To the point where it becomes part of the person >.>

God, I hope I don't sound like an ignorant idiot who recycles the same old arguments over and over again...

 

[Furretsu]

Er, I've gone to a Catholic school for the last 10 years of my life, so I know exactly what it's like. :P

 

[Icalasari]

Yeah, was your grandmother also one of the sisters at the church?

 

[Eevee]

Don't forget, I was raised in a Christian-Catholic environment. They tend to drill in that sex and virginity is sacred at a very young age.

they're not

that was easy!

imo something is wrong if you can admit that you don't know why you believe something but continue to believe it

 

[Icalasari]

imo something is wrong if you can admit that you don't know why you believe something but continue to believe it

Well, it isn't because I think I will go to hell if I have sex before marriage. It just feels... Like it should be given only for the one that I feel is right for me

 

[surskitty]

No one is entirely right for anyone else.

 

[Eevee]

It just feels... Like it should be given only for the one that I feel is right for me

the world does not work like this

everyone you fall in love with is the one you feel is right for you

that is what love is


edit: also there is nothing inherently special about sex and having it with two people or two hundred does not necessarily cheapen it with the next, despite whatever church may tell you

 

[Alexi]

Just because Icalasari wants to wait until he (I think he's a he; correct me if I'm wrong) is comfortable is no reason to bash him around like that.

For some people, virginity and marriage are real important things. They are to me. I've been a virgin all my life, so it's not something I'm gonna give up real quick. And marriage is important to me for reasons I won't state because no one else really cares.

 

[Icalasari]

the world does not work like this

everyone you fall in love with is the one you feel is right for you

that is what love is

*Sighs* Well, it was the way I was brought up. It is a part of me to believe that sex and virginity is sacred.

If there is a syndrome where one believes in something no matter what, no matter how asinine it is or how good the arguments against it are (example supporting the existence of this symptom is religion XD), then I guess that is what it is with me

And yet again, may I point out that my grandmother, who LIVES here and, before living here, visited me and was visited by me quite often, worked at the church and is already spoonfeeding the crap of God made everyone and everything to my four year old sister? I think that may be partially responsible for my belief in sex and virginity being sacred

EDIT: Alexi, thanks. And yes, I am a he. GOD do we ever need that gender hack back... x.x

 

[surskitty]

Just because Icalasari wants to wait until he (I think he's a he; correct me if I'm wrong) is comfortable is no reason to bash him around like that.

This is the debating hall. Poking at people's stances is what people do.

 

[Eevee]

For some people, virginity and marriage are real important things.

I'm sure for some people cheeseburgers are real important things, too. That doesn't make it not ridiculous.

They are to me. I've been a virgin all my life, so it's not something I'm gonna give up real quick.

I've been a skydiving virgin all my life! Should I not want to give it up until I'm sure I've found the right skydiving instructor?

Again, "virgin" doesn't mean anything.


You appear to be arguing with the assumption that I will have some empathy for your position because most people think "virgin" is special. This is a common tactic against moderates, but it will not work here.

And marriage is important to me for reasons I won't state because no one else really cares.

Great! Thanks for posting.

*Sighs* Well, it was the way I was brought up. It is a part of me to believe that sex and virginity is sacred.

I don't care how you were brought up and that is not an excuse for anything.

If you don't like what you believe, then stop believing it; don't pull this little song-and-dance and blame it on everyone else. Take some goddamn responsibility for what you think and say.

If there is a syndrome where one believes in something no matter what, no matter how asinine it is or how good the arguments against it are (example supporting the existence of this symptom is religion XD), then I guess that is what it is with me

"Irrationality"?

Also "naivete".

And yet again, may I point out that my grandmother, who LIVES here and, before living here, visited me and was visited by me quite often, worked at the church and is already spoonfeeding the crap of God made everyone and everything to my four year old sister?

So quit whining and stop believing it.

 

[Icalasari]

I don't care how you were brought up and that is not an excuse for anything

if you don't like what you believe then stop believing it; don't pull this little song-and-dance and blame it on everyone else. take some goddamn responsibility for what you think and say

v.v You're not getting it... I am saying that it was the way I was brought up that causes me to believe this, and believe it to the end. Nature vs. Nurture. If I was raised in a household that thought this stuff was bullshit, then I would be on your side. Instead, I was raised in a house that believes virginity to be sacred. As such, I believe in it. True, I don't agree with other values that I was raised with, such as there being a kind, benevolent god who actually gives a crap about humans, but virginity being sacred is one of the virtues that I believe strongly in. You can call it irrational and naive, but it is who I am, and one cannot change another person very easily

Now, I won't be responding to any more comments tonight as it is my bedtime, so don't think that I am pulling off something stupid like, "LALALAH! I DON'T LIKE WHAT YOU ARE SAYING SO I AM LEAVING AND AS SUCH I WIN THIS ARGUMENT SO THERE!", because I am not. I will be responding to this as soon as possible (on a computer, mind you, not the fucking wii >.>)