Rape As Comedy--Should it be allowed?

[#1 bro]

Butterfree pretty much said it all, a lot better than I did.

but:

Well, honestly, I'm not sure most people would find rape amusing in the first place. Most of that is found on online places like 4chan or whatever, which are pretty remote communities.

Also I dislike generalizing people to that point; I don't know whether most people find this amusing or not without any statistics on the matter. I know the people I know wouldn't find it amusing, I know I haven't seen any jokes on those sorts of subjects on tv or movies, so I'm pretty comfortable saying public outlook doesn't really need changing.

I really don't think this is true. (I hear plenty of rape jokes day-to-day in high school) There are no rape jokes in TV or movies because there would be a massive backlash against the studio. There are more rape jokes on the internet because people aren't afraid of what others will think of them.

It's not a question of whether or not they should be allowed. Of course they should. But that shouldn't matter; in a society which doesn't condone and trivialise rape, no one would make rape jokes. If they did, they'd be stared at. It wouldn't be an issue.

Except for the fact that people make jokes about the Holocaust and pedophilia and murder and incest and etc but ok, carry on

The problem is the fact that we live in a society which does condone and trivialise rape, and so long as people keep treating rape jokes as perfectly acceptable and inoffensive, that isn't going to change.

I just don't even understand this. How is it remotely the case that society "condones" rape? This seems like a mind-blowingly ludicrous assertion to me, unless there are some vital information and/or statistics that would help me understand this matter? (in which case, feel free to show me them) I just... what?

Rape jokes are not only in poor taste, they're downright irresponsible. The biggest problem with comparing jokes about rape to jokes about murder is that there is no issue of people defending murderers, while you could look at, say, the whole thing with Roman Polanski for a good example of people defending rapists. Rape jokes are incredibly offensive but more importantly they trivialise rape.

I don't really know about the Roman Polanski incident but I think the story went something like "oh, some famous film maker kind of sort of raped a girl a long time ago. Can't people just leave him alone?" But I think this is probably more because he's a celebrity than of the actual nature of the crime. People tend to behave very irrationally when celebrities do terrible things - here are some good examples.

But er I don't really see a lot of people in cases other than that and Michael Jackson saying "oh, come on guys, rape isn't SO bad, just let the guy off with a month or two, stop being such a jerk". Like... I don't understand, where are you getting this from? Society seems to have planted rape firmly in the SECOND WORST THING A HUMAN BEING CAN POSSIBLY DO position and I don't feel like it's going anywhere soon. Rapists are scum to society! I really can't follow your train of thought.

I'd also like to point out that people make jokes about murder when they're in like, first grade. "My mom is going to literally kill me if I don't clean my room."

 

[opaltiger]

Except for the fact that people make jokes about the Holocaust and pedophilia and murder and incest and etc but ok, carry on

Well, first thing, I don't think jokes about any of those things are particularly appropriate either.

But there's still an important point which you are missing entirely. No one questions that those things are bad. If you kill someone without good reason, you're a murderer, period. That's not the case with rape. I'm not saying people say rape is good; what they do, however, is misunderstand what rape is. I don't want to repeat myself, see my next point.

I just don't even understand this. How is it remotely the case that society "condones" rape? This seems like a mind-blowingly ludicrous assertion to me, unless there are some vital information and/or statistics that would help me understand this matter? (in which case, feel free to show me them) I just... what?

I don't have the statistics on hand, but some absurdly large proportion of people thinks it's impossible for a husband to rape his wife. See, I think you're viewing rape in the stereotypical "young woman walks down dark alley" way. Of course, no one condones the rapist in such a scenario. But the vast majority of rapists know the victim personally. People don't even consider the possibility of, say, someone withdrawing consent. If you've said yes once, it can't possibly be rape, right? And in these sorts of scenarios, the rapists will often get away with it. It's not a matter of evidence; it's a matter of the judge and/or jury not considering it to be rape. So yes, society does condone rape. See here for more, with sources.

But er I don't really see a lot of people in cases other than that and Michael Jackson saying "oh, come on guys, rape isn't SO bad, just let the guy off with a month or two, stop being such a jerk". Like... I don't understand, where are you getting this from? Society seems to have planted rape firmly in the SECOND WORST THING A HUMAN BEING CAN POSSIBLY DO position and I don't feel like it's going anywhere soon. Rapists are scum to society! I really can't follow your train of thought.

Yeah, they are. But only in very specific situations which society has decided constitute rape. The other 95% of rapists go unpunished.

 

[Eloi]

I really don't think this is true. (I hear plenty of rape jokes day-to-day in high school) There are no rape jokes in TV or movies because there would be a massive backlash against the studio. There are more rape jokes on the internet because people aren't afraid of what others will think of them.

Fox is a television channel, yes?

Except for the fact that people make jokes about the Holocaust and pedophilia and murder and incest and etc but ok, carry on

Which we all condone and trivialize all of those too, but ok, carry on.

I just don't even understand this. How is it remotely the case that society "condones" rape? This seems like a mind-blowingly ludicrous assertion to me, unless there are some vital information and/or statistics that would help me understand this matter? (in which case, feel free to show me them) I just... what?

TV TROPES TO THE RESCUE!


http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RapeAsComedy
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RapeIsFunnyWhenItIsMaleOnMale
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RapeIsOkWhenItIsFemaleOnMale
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RapeIsOkayWhenItsFemaleOnFemale
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RapeAsRedemption (!)
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Ptitle4sxv03op
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Ptitle4zfvfjq8


Be sure to read all of those, okay? You will gain a new perspective on how trivalized rape really is in society and media.

But er I don't really see a lot of people in cases other than that and Michael Jackson saying "oh, come on guys, rape isn't SO bad, just let the guy off with a month or two, stop being such a jerk". Like... I don't understand, where are you getting this from? Society seems to have planted rape firmly in the SECOND WORST THING A HUMAN BEING CAN POSSIBLY DO position and I don't feel like it's going anywhere soon. Rapists are scum to society! I really can't follow your train of thought.

Micheal Jackson didn't do anything. He is a nice man who was too childish to do anything like that. Have you ever read anything he ever wrote? What causes he donated to? I really don't see why people are so quick jump to conclusions because he's a little odd.

I'd also like to point out that people make jokes about murder when they're in like, first grade. "My mom is going to literally kill me if I don't clean my room.

"
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BlackComedy
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeadBabyComedy
Again, thank you TV Tropes.

 

[#1 bro]

Alright, now I think I understand what you are talking about. Thanks for that post.

I don't have the statistics on hand, but some absurdly large proportion of people thinks it's impossible for a husband to rape his wife. See, I think you're viewing rape in the stereotypical "young woman walks down dark alley" way. Of course, no one condones the rapist in such a scenario. But the vast majority of rapists know the victim personally. People don't even consider the possibility of, say, someone withdrawing consent. If you've said yes once, it can't possibly be rape, right? And in these sorts of scenarios, the rapists will often get away with it. It's not a matter of evidence; it's a matter of the judge and/or jury not considering it to be rape. So yes, society does condone rape. See here for more, with sources.

Alright, so I admit I was considering the "dark alley" case while writing that post. I will now attempt to rectify that.

I guess let's set aside a few different types of rape cases. Case a - dark alley. Case b - you're staying after school for some extra help and the teacher turns off the lights, locks the door, and rapes you. Or your dad rapes you. In other words: someone you know rapes you. Case c - your boyfriend and you are getting frisky in the car, and right as he's about to stick it in you go "wait, wait, I don't know if I'm-" but he pretends not to hear you. Husband raping a wife would fall under this heading as well.

Obviously there are a million different possible scenarios and these are just three broad oversimplifications, but let's just go with it.

First of all, these cases are undeniably listed in descending order of severity. You will probably tell me "you can't say some rape is okay, it is ALL bad". And I agree, all rape is obvs terrible, but we must admit that certain kinds of rape are even worse than others. I feel safe in saying that your husband raping you while drunk is going to fuck you up in the head, but not nearly as severely as if some random stranger were to do it.

Not only that, but they are listed in descending order of lack of morality needed to commit these crimes. To commit C, one only needs to be incredibly selfish and have a dangerously low respect for others. In addition, people don't think straight when they're horny, and if they are drunk then even less so. I think it's safe to say that, on occasion, a generally decent person could make an egregious lapse in judgment and commit a rape of type c. (obviously this still doesn't mean it's okay AT ALL)

In order to commit rape type b, one would have to be pretty fucked up. But, I still feel like some people could possibly justify it in their heads, or at least more easily than rapists of type A could. These people literally wait in the shadows for unsuspecting victims, displaying an almost sociopathic level of misconduct.

So, my point is that I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone that would attempt to justify rapes a and b. I assume you are speaking about c that people condone and trivialize.

But that's just the thing - rape type c is more understandable, less severe than the other two. Still morally reprehensible, of course, but I think it compares more to beating your wife than it does to things like murder and whatnot.

And here's the kicker - people don't joke about rape type c. They joke about a and b. I can't recall a single joke about rape type c off of the top of my head.

So there you go, people do not joke about it because they think it's okay. The rape people think is "okay" people generally don't joke about, and the rape people joke about they don't think is okay.

and that's what I have to say on this matter.

Which we all condone and trivialize all of those too, but ok, carry on.

Our society does absolutely not condone the Holocaust or pedophilia. Honestly, you are about as wrong as it is possible to be right now.

TV TROPES TO THE RESCUE!


http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RapeAsComedy
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RapeIsFunnyWhenItIsMaleOnMale
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RapeIsOkWhenItIsFemaleOnMale
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RapeIsOkayWhenItsFemaleOnFemale
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RapeAsRedemption (!)
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Ptitle4sxv03op
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Ptitle4zfvfjq8


Be sure to read all of those, okay? You will gain a new perspective on how trivalized rape really is in society and media.

I have
a) seen all these pages before
b) and honestly, I really hate tv tropes >(

Micheal Jackson didn't do anything. He is a nice man who was too childish to do anything like that. Have you ever read anything he ever wrote? What causes he donated to? I really don't see why people are so quick jump to conclusions because he's a little odd.

Uh I am by no means an expert but I really don't think the charges against him were just made up. People tend to not accuse beloved figures of things they can't back up, and the man is mentally insane, so it is definitely not a stretch to believe that he molested children before. It looks like you are unwilling to admit that someone can be both a good songwriter and a bad person. :\

 

[Eloi]

Alright, now I think I understand what you are talking about. Thanks for that post.

Alright, so I admit I was considering the "dark alley" case while writing that post. I will now attempt to rectify that.

I guess let's set aside a few different types of rape cases. Case a - dark alley. Case b - you're staying after school for some extra help and the teacher turns off the lights, locks the door, and rapes you. Or your dad rapes you. In other words: someone you know rapes you. Case c - your boyfriend and you are getting frisky in the car, and right as he's about to stick it in you go "wait, wait, I don't know if I'm-" but he pretends not to hear you. Husband raping a wife would fall under this heading as well.

Obviously there are a million different possible scenarios and these are just three broad oversimplifications, but let's just go with it.

First of all, these cases are undeniably listed in descending order of severity. You will probably tell me "you can't say some rape is okay, it is ALL bad". And I agree, all rape is obvs terrible, but we must admit that certain kinds of rape are even worse than others. I feel safe in saying that your husband raping you while drunk is going to fuck you up in the head, but not nearly as severely as if some random stranger were to do it.

Not only that, but they are listed in descending order of lack of morality needed to commit these crimes. To commit C, one only needs to be incredibly selfish and have a dangerously low respect for others. In addition, people don't think straight when they're horny, and if they are drunk then even less so. I think it's safe to say that, on occasion, a generally decent person could make an egregious lapse in judgment and commit a rape of type c. (obviously this still doesn't mean it's okay AT ALL)

In order to commit rape type b, one would have to be pretty fucked up. But, I still feel like some people could possibly justify it in their heads, or at least more easily than rapists of type A could. These people literally wait in the shadows for unsuspecting victims, displaying an almost sociopathic level of misconduct.

So, my point is that I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone that would attempt to justify rapes a and b. I assume you are speaking about c that people condone and trivialize.

But that's just the thing - rape type c is more understandable, less severe than the other two. Still morally reprehensible, of course, but I think it compares more to beating your wife than it does to things like murder and whatnot.

And here's the kicker - people don't joke about rape type c. They joke about a and b. I can't recall a single joke about rape type c off of the top of my head.

So there you go, people do not joke about it because they think it's okay. The rape people think is "okay" people generally don't joke about, and the rape people joke about they don't think is okay.

and that's what I have to say on this matter.

No, all of the rape you describe is bad. ALL. OF. IT. Actually, c sounded the scariest to me and probably would damage me the most. I mean, not only did you get raped, but it was by someone you actually liked? Brr.

Our society does absolutely not condone the Holocaust or pedophilia. Honestly, you are about as wrong as it is possible to be right now.

Pedo and holocaust jokes say "HI!". People don't care because if they aren't:
a) children
b) Jews

I have
a) seen all these pages before
b) and honestly, I really hate tv tropes >(

a) Than you know what a serious problem this is.
b) Forget you. TV Tropes is awesome.

Uh I am by no means an expert but I really don't think the charges against him were just made up. People tend to not accuse beloved figures of things they can't back up, and the man is mentally insane, so it is definitely not a stretch to believe that he molested children before. It looks like you are unwilling to admit that someone can be both a good songwriter and a bad person. :\

I think you are just a sheep who follows whatever media gives them instead of actually researching the case in-depth, and finding that its not true, but I could be wrong about you.

 

[#1 bro]

No, all of the rape you describe is bad. ALL. OF. IT.

I knew someone was going to say this, even though I made extra sure to make myself clear:

"I agree, all rape is obvs terrible"
"obviously this still doesn't mean it's okay AT ALL"
"morally reprehensible, of course"

Actually, c sounded the scariest to me and probably would damage me the most. I mean, not only did you get raped, but it was by someone you actually liked? Brr.

You might be right! I have obviously never been in either situation, on either side, so I can't say. But I really feel that going for a walk in the park and getting raped would make you deeply mistrustful of going out in public, make you feel worthless, used, misanthropic, powerless, and etc. Not only that, but the actual experience would of course also be horrible. As for c, at least the person you are getting raped by is someone you at least kind of sort of would want to have sex with in the first place. At least you already knew you were placing yourself in a sexualised situation. At least you can talk to this person about it later. At least you know the intent of the rapist was not quite as abhorrent. Etc.

Pedo and holocaust jokes say "HI!". People don't care because if they aren't:
a) children
b) Jews

Your logic is very circular. "There are only pedo and holocaust jokes because people condone pedophilia and the holocaust. We can tell that people condone pedophilia and the holocaust because there are pedo and holocaust jokes."

 

[Eloi]

Actually its not. "People condone the holocaust and pedophillia because they aren't affected by it. We can tell that people condone pedophilia and the holocaust because there are pedo and holocaust jokes."

 

[Tarvos]

I feel safe in saying that your husband raping you while drunk is going to fuck you up in the head, but not nearly as severely as if some random stranger were to do it.

This is much scarier, actually. If a stranger does it, it sucks, but you are not bonded to that person. For someone to actually break the vow of trust is ten times worse - which is why I am extremely precise in my relationship.

 

[Tarvos]

I feel safe in saying that your husband raping you while drunk is going to fuck you up in the head, but not nearly as severely as if some random stranger were to do it.

This is much scarier, actually. If a stranger does it, it sucks, but you are not bonded to that person. For someone to actually break the vow of trust is ten times worse - which is why I am extremely precise in my relationship.

 

[Blastoise Fortooate]

Actually its not. "People condone the holocaust and pedophillia because they aren't affected by it. We can tell that people condone pedophilia and the holocaust because there are pedo and holocaust jokes."

One example of the condoning of either of those would be nice. =/ I can't think of any off of the top of my head; I'm pretty sure that there is a consensus that 'sex + kids = eeww' among non-pedophiles and that the Holocaust was a pretty terrible thing.

 

[Dannichu]

There are no rape jokes in TV or movies

Watch pretty much any episode of Family Guy or Two and a Half Men for about thirty seconds. Then revel in your wrongness.

Also, I can't believe how anyone can possibly think that being raped by a family member is 'preferable' to being raped by a stranger. Just think about it - Odds are resonably high that if a person is raped on their way home in a dark alley, they get believed and comforted by friends and family and still have home as a 'safe space', even though it's still statistically unlikely that their rapist will ever be convicted.

Rape by family members occurs with massively higher incidence than statistics show, and it's no wonder; in a sickeningly large number of cases, victims of incest aren't believed by their own families ("my brother/husband/nephew/sister would never do that!") and family members/friends of the family who rape almost always use the emotional connection they have with their victim, which can be very easily used to manipulate them, especially if they're young (see the cases of priests sexually abusing boys).
Moreover, sexually abusive family members tend to pick on victims again and again.

And as for spousal rape - you've made a vow to stay with a person you've just discovered is a rapist for the rest of your life. How do you feel? What if you've got kids? Will he rape them? Will you ever feel safe in your home again?

Think about these things!

 

[Pwnemon]

Is it just me or has this thread turned into a sick rendition of "Would you rather?"

Anyhow, I don't mind rape jokes because I honestly don't think it trivializes rape and I still condemn ANY kind of rape.

 

[Eloi]

Is it just me has this thread turned into a sick rendition of "Would you rather?"

No?

Anyhow, I don't mind rape jokes because I honestly don't think it trivializes rape and I still condemn ANY kind of rape.

Anything you can draw humor from you are trivializing. Would you like to make me to make jokes about how Christians are talking into the air when they are praying, and any voices they here are because they are schizophrenic? Of course not, that would be trivializing prayer by making fun of it. Likewise, jokes about rape do the same thing to rape victims.

 

[Tarvos]

Actually I do not mind trivializing prayer.

 

[Eloi]

Actually I do not mind trivializing prayer.

There was a reason I was directing that at Pwnemon and not you, okay?

 

[Pwnemon]

well, Eloi, it depends how you say them. I mean, jokes like that are solely intended to offend Christians, there's no real other purpose. But things like the bed intruder song are funny, without being used to insult rape victims.

 

[Vladimir Putin's LJ]

well, Eloi, it depends how you say them. I mean, jokes like that are solely intended to offend Christians, there's no real other purpose. But things like the bed intruder song are funny, without being used to insult rape victims.

This seems like a double standard. Jokes about prayer are rude because they only offend Christians and amuse everyone else (hypothetically), but jokes about rape are okay because they only offend rape victims and allies of rape victims and amuse a random couple of dudes ?_? I don't understand the logic.

Personally I'm against censoring but I don't laugh at rape jokes because they're just not funny to me. Just saying 'drop the soap' is also kind of horrible because I don't see the humour in men getting brutally and repeatedly raped in jail but maybe I'm just weird

 

[Eloi]

This seems like a double standard. Jokes about prayer are rude because they only offend Christians and amuse everyone else (hypothetically), but jokes about rape are okay because they only offend rape victims and allies of rape victims and amuse a random couple of dudes ?_? I don't understand the logic.

Personally I'm against censoring but I don't laugh at rape jokes because they're just not funny to me. Just saying 'drop the soap' is also kind of horrible because I don't see the humour in men getting brutally and repeatedly raped in jail but maybe I'm just weird

All of the opinions of the post are seconded by myself.

 

[Tarvos]

It's more the fact that prayer is not bad, just ridiculous. Rape is bad.

 

[Eloi]

It's more the fact that prayer is not bad, just ridiculous. Rape is bad.

Watershed, I was using prayer as an example because Pwnemon cares about prayer and thus would probably be offended by jokes of because they trivialize the matter, trying to draw correlation of the offense by those kinds of jokes to the offense I feel about rape jokes. So far I've only managed to uncover a double standard instead of getting an understanding, but thats sort of progress.

Also I don't find whats funny about the Bed Intruder Song (other than the auto-tuning). Its a man who is talking concerned after an attempted rape of his sister, and speaks differently because he is a poor person from the American South. *shrugs* I guess I'm not "with it" per se.