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Altruism or Selfishness? Which drives us?

I agree with Icalasari. I can be very happy indeed, even if I believe that every action has a selfish motivation behind it. I don't see selfishness as a bad thing, a sad thing, or anything like that. I think selfishness is good, after all, it's what's keeping us alive. And making us happy.

As for making other people happy by simply BEING happy, that isn't exactly altruism. If you're not conscious of doing a favor for somebody, I'm pretty sure that isn't altruism. And I think that being happy because you're in a happy environment is still selfish. If you were in an unhappy environment, it might be dangerous to you -- there could be violence or other forms of punishment. So it's natural that we should enjoy being with happy people, because there you are probably safer and have less of a chance of being in harm's way. So that's selfish, I do believe. :P
 
You can be happy if you think love is greedy.
Is the only non greedy people loveless people haters? Are they the only non stingy people since they don't use people for their 'greedy' kindness. I'm sorry I don't bieleve everything I do in my life is about 'me' I don't think to myself 'What person can I use to make me happy?". I bieleve there are greater and more important things then myself. Is that greedy too?
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Actually yes. Because if you did the opposite of what you're talking about, then you would probably feel bad, which is something you don't want to feel. Therefor, subconsciously, you're doing it out of selfishness, to not feel bad.

And, I'm pretty sure no one thinks 'What person can I use to make me happy?' it's just subconsciously they think that. They don't even know it.
 
And "loveless people haters" are still motivated by their own selfishness in everything they do. If they "hate people", they must feel that it is to their benefit to do so, otherwise they wouldn't go around hating. It wouldn't make sense otherwise.

Let's say for example there's somebody who is reserved, withdrawn, has no friends, avoids people, censures people, that sort of thing. Perhaps this person is afraid that if he lets people get too close to him, they'll hurt him. Perhaps he think that cooperating with other people will slow him down in what he's trying to do. And those are selfish reasons.
 
Dragon_night said:
Actually yes. Because if you did the opposite of what you're talking about, then you would probably feel bad, which is something you don't want to feel. Therefor, subconsciously, you're doing it out of selfishness, to not feel bad.

And, I'm pretty sure no one thinks 'What person can I use to make me happy?' it's just subconsciously they think that. They don't even know it.
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So your saying everyone wants to use people? I'm sorry I don't. I'm no better than anybody else. If I caught myself thinking that way I would kick myself. I find such an attitude sickening. Of course thats selfish too isn't it? And I'm debating because this is what I believe and it has nothing to do what I feel. I believe this. If everything anyone has ever done was selfish than their truly is the same as being completely alone. Since people would only stick up for themselves. So according to this all people do is protect themselves. My grandfather went to WW2 not because he was protecting his own ass thank you. And I don't say thank you because I want to feel good. I would not feel guilty if I did otherwise. I do it because I believe it's polite. I believe all actions are from beliefs not selfishness.
 
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People wouldn't only stick up for themselves...

*sighs* For example, bullying. A person comes and stops the bullying. It is selfish, as they do it to feel good, even subconsciously. Also, they recognize, at least on a subconscious level, that the person they rescued from the bullies may look up to them, and may help them back in the future.

And about you thinking that you aren't selfish? You are. For example, you are debating with us, because thinking that everything you do is based in selfishness makes you feel bad. The way you are making that bad feeling go away is by debating with us that not all actions are rooted in selfishness
 
Actually that does not make me feel bad. I have heard a lot worse.
I'm doing this because it's fun. And I don't see that as selfish or selfless.
 
If you're doing it because it's fun, then it's giving you pleasure. Selfishness.

I think the problem some people have with attributing actions to selfishness, is because our society has stamped negative connotations on selfishness. If we could all believe that selfishness isn't necessarily a bad thing, then it might be easier to see that what we do is, indeed, selfish.
 
So your saying everyone wants to use people?
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Yes. You want friend? You find someone and befriend them, and BAM, you're using them for the feeling of friendship.

If I caught myself thinking that way I would kick myself. I find such an attitude sickening. Of course thats selfish too isn't it?
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Now you're getting it.

If everything anyone has ever done was selfish than their truly is the same as being completely alone. Since people would only stick up for themselves.
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Like I said with the befriending. AND, people would stick up for others, if the outcome would benefit them. Why not help a friend? Because if you didn't, they'd think of you less.

My grandfather went to WW2 not because he was protecting his own ass thank you. And I don't say thank you because I want to feel good.
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Of coarse he went. He went because he would be forced, or because he believed he was helping his country, which in turn would help him. And yes, that little thank you is a little snide comment. At least, it doesn't sound like kindness.
 
I'm surprised no one has mentioned impulse. I'm sure a lot of us have made very quick decisions without thinking of the consequences be it bad or good.

Another thing to think about is not caring at all. Such as when you get in line for lets say fast food. You and someone get to the end at the same time. You both look at each other. They say you go ahead. You say no you can go on (I generally do this as an impulse.) The person says thanks and does so, and you proceed to look at the menu and completely forget about what just happened.
 
Even if it's a decision that is made quickly (an "impulse"), it's still done for our own benefit. :3 We think it's going to benefit us at that moment, even if, had we thought about it further, we would have realized it wasn't going to benefit us. Impulse decisions don't have different motivations than regular decisions; it's just that we make the first kind of decision more quickly than the second.

And while, in an impulse decision, we may not be thinking, "Kay I think this is going to benefit me" consciously, we make the decision because somewhere in our subconscious we believe doing a particular thing will help us.
 
Mirry said:
Even if it's a decision that is made quickly (an "impulse"), it's still done for our own benefit. :3 We think it's going to benefit us at that moment, even if, had we thought about it further, we would have realized it wasn't going to benefit us. Impulse decisions don't have different motivations than regular decisions; it's just that we make the first kind of decision more quickly than the second.

And while, in an impulse decision, we may not be thinking, "Kay I think this is going to benefit me" consciously, we make the decision because somewhere in our subconscious we believe doing a particular thing will help us.
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No, it's because being polite has been drilled into our head since birth. It's an automatic reaction.
 
Dragon_night said:
Of coarse he went. He went because he would be forced, or because he believed he was helping his country, which in turn would help him. And yes, that little thank you is a little snide comment. At least, it doesn't sound like kindness.
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I'm not saying everything is based on kindness.And by the way I was getting yelled at by my mother thats why I was getting ticked off. And believing in something is not selfish. Nor am I saying it's selfless. I don't believe in a root cause to ever thing. That's too simple and nothing in life is that simple. However thank you and charity is from beliefs.

You believe everything is selfish so that's how you see it. So are you calling yourself selfish? And your saying I'm selfish because I'm saying people are not selfish?
 
You believe everything is selfish so that's how you see it. So are you calling yourself selfish? And your saying I'm selfish because I'm saying people are not selfish?
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I believe they are. But the thing they have to understand is that the action is not 100% selfish.
 
You believe everything is selfish so that's how you see it. So are you calling yourself selfish? And your saying I'm selfish because I'm saying people are not selfish?
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Of course Im selfish. It's sad, but everyone is. That's just the way I see things.

And, yes, it's still selfishness that you're debating you're not. It's plain and simple. You don't want to be labeled with selfish. You don't want to be laced in the same boat as those who are.

Well too bad. The human race all shares one boat with many cabins. You can be at the top, or you can be at the bottom. Either way, you're selfish.
 
Well too bad. The human race all shares one boat with many cabins. You can be at the top, or you can be at the bottom. Either way, you're selfish.
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There's never a single reason for doing something. If you say there is then you're contradicting your argument. Sure, there might be some selfishness involved. You know what they say though, "how can you love others unless you first love yourself?"
 
Deretto said:
I believe they are. But the thing they have to understand is that the action is not 100% selfish.
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You're the only person I've seen at the debating hall who doesn't believe that everything is completely good or completely bad. You, sir (ma'am?) deserve a cupcake.
 
There's never a single reason for doing something. If you say there is then you're contradicting your argument. Sure, there might be some selfishness involved. You know what they say though, "how can you love others unless you first love yourself?"
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Who says that a selfish person must love him/her self? I sure as hell don't love myself :/

Although, I don't think I said that it's always 100% selfishness involved. I'm just saying that's the root of all our actions, but it's not the complete picture.
 
Dragon_night said:
And, yes, it's still selfishness that you're debating you're not. It's plain and simple. You don't want to be labeled with selfish. You don't want to be laced in the same boat as those who are.
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I'm debating because debating is fun. I could care less if you think I'm selfish. I know you think so and I'm not debating that you should not think of me as. There is people who are a lot less selfish than me. And I may be selfish. It depends on how you look at someone. I'm not perfect and I never said I was. I debating wether or not all human behavor and actions are selfish. And I don't think so.
 
Dragon_night said:
Who says that a selfish person must love him/her self? I sure as hell don't love myself :/

Although, I don't think I said that it's always 100% selfishness involved. I'm just saying that's the root of all our actions, but it's not the complete picture.
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I think you're overglorifying my use of love in this instance. Why would you do something for yourself if you didn't care about yourself?

Even being suicidal. You're convinced you're doing yourself a favor by killing yourself.
 
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