Blank Canvas Mafia Game Thread

[Mawile]

ok so i think the current vote counts before this post are like this (numbers next to names are post numbers):
- butterfree: 1 (mf #265)
- dodge: 2 (mewt #221, keldeo #262)
- mf: 2 (ever #96, eifie #257)
- mawile: 1 (butterfree #211)
- no elim: 3 (mawile #54, xrunner #219, missingno #273)

ok so this means i need to vote on one of bfree/dodge/mf to avoid the no elim that i posted like 200 posts ago huh. i know like 200 posts ago keldeo told me that i can just vote him if i wanted to but i don't really have anything against him now that his vote is off me :)

my opinion on bfree is that she is probably just going to keep her vote on me which is fine. the dodge meta thing i am no thoughts head empty on and mf might change her vote based on the bfree correction post so i am also slightly no thoughts head empty there too

 

[Mawile]

i think i will apply pressure to the dodge right now so that we get a vote from him Vote: Dodge

this means we have butterfree 1/dodge 3/mf 2/mawile 1/no elim 2

 

[Butterfree]

My mildly tinfoil hat theory here is that Ever doesn't have a night action and is some flavor of vanilla. Leaning slightly more townie I guess because I feel like if ve was mafia then the other mafia would be able to tell ver that "hey no we (probably?) don't have night actions either it doesn't mean anything" (I feel like this isn't the type of game to give mafia both regular night actions and a factional kill but maybe I am wrong!)

This is jumping out at me rereading Mawile. What exactly do you mean by not feeling like this is the "type of game" to give mafia both regular night actions and a factional kill? Is there something specific about the setup that makes you think this? Maybe I'm tunneling but it almost reads like TMI to me, apparently basing a read on a strange baseless assumption about what the mafia in this game have going on?

 

[Mawile]

What exactly do you mean by not feeling like this is the "type of game" to give mafia both regular night actions and a factional kill? Is there something specific about the setup that makes you think this? Maybe I'm tunneling but it almost reads like TMI to me, apparently basing a read on a strange baseless assumption about what the mafia in this game have going on?

it's basically me going off the part of the original post where it specifically mentions vanilla roles + no 3p + "unorthodox roles will likely exist but i make no promises" that makes me feel like it's leaning more like a "normal mafia game" as opposed to the usual tcodf style (that lean more roles madness). in retrospective it is a pretty baseless assumption where i got hyperfocused on the specific roles mentioned in the original post and then tinfoil hatted myself into a pit

 

[Butterfree]

DarkAura hasn't posted too much of substantial relevance, but one of the main game-relevant thing she has posted is to defend Mawile here. She was also asked about MF, but doesn't actually mention any specifics about not getting a mafia read from her the way she does Mawile:

@DarkAura Have you got any thoughts on Mawile and MF? If they fall under your "seems authentic" umbrella, what specifically from them did you think was towny?

No specifics I can really point to, I just don't get a mafia read from either of their posts, and in my mind I kinda consider it like "not mafia? okay bet so town" lmao! I did see Mawile's no elim vote as innocuous enough especially when randomized ties are on, so it surprised me a little to see people ping that as suspicious. But that's coming from someone who doesn't remember much how it plays mafia games usually so :V

That does vaguely ping me as they might be associated, but now I really am worried I'm tunneling/confbiasing.

 

[MF the ISOable]

well. I will Unvote; I'm still not 100% there with Butterfree's play at the moment, but we sure are moving back from "strong suspicion" onto "iffy vibes", a category where there's at least a three-way tie

now to decide on what to actually do though, hm

 

[Mawile]

in retrospective it is a pretty baseless assumption where i got hyperfocused on the specific roles mentioned in the original post and then tinfoil hatted myself into a pit

me the second i am given literally anything about the setup past "it's roles madness" or "it's normal": I Know Exactly What Is Going On Here (is reading too far into it to the point of cementing certain beliefs about the setup in my brain. help)

 

[Butterfree]

What exactly do you mean by not feeling like this is the "type of game" to give mafia both regular night actions and a factional kill? Is there something specific about the setup that makes you think this? Maybe I'm tunneling but it almost reads like TMI to me, apparently basing a read on a strange baseless assumption about what the mafia in this game have going on?

it's basically me going off the part of the original post where it specifically mentions vanilla roles + no 3p + "unorthodox roles will likely exist but i make no promises" that makes me feel like it's leaning more like a "normal mafia game" as opposed to the usual tcodf style (that lean more roles madness). in retrospective it is a pretty baseless assumption where i got hyperfocused on the specific roles mentioned in the original post and then tinfoil hatted myself into a pit

Vanilla roles are specifically mentioned only in the context of "may or may not exist", so it feels a bit strange to me to go from "vanilla roles may or may not exist" to "probably the mafia are all vanilla and only have a factional kill"...?

 

[Butterfree]

That does vaguely ping me as they might be associated, but now I really am worried I'm tunneling/confbiasing.

(Because I'm realizing it might not be clear, I mean DarkAura and Mawile being associated, as in DarkAura feeling compelled to try to dismiss specific ways Mawile is getting suspected while not having a similar investment in arguing against suspicion of MF)

 

[MF the ISOable]

ah, y'know what. fuck it, I'm staying on the horse

Vote: Butterfree again

 

[Mawile]

so it feels a bit strange to me to go from "vanilla roles may or may not exist" to "probably the mafia are all vanilla and only have a factional kill"...?

yea i am fully acknowledging that my logic here was bad. i think a more reasonable thought that can be derived from my original logic before i spiralled into overthinking would probably still be "ever is potentially vanilla (no alignment specified), and ve was voting based on The Threat Of A Night Action from mf"

 

[Butterfree]

Ever's MF vote still does not feel like a mafia move to me, though I can't say I 100% grasp the reasoning behind it (and probably should not grasp it too much if it's role-related. Ve has not contributed much else at this stage, but as far as that goes I think I lean town on ver right now.

 

[Dodge]

OK, reading back through the thread and trying to get my thoughts in order a bit:
Slightly Trust: mewtini, Butterfree (both seem about as active and contributing takes as when they were Town recently)
Eifie, Keldeo (basically the same on contribution, except I haven't played with them before so slightly lighter read I guess)
missingno? (I just think they're neat)


Slightly Iffy: Mawile (Maybe I'm being swayed by Butterfree's recent posts, but I do think that mafia would probably have pushed a bandwagon to vote him, and the fact that it instead died off and diverted into multiple other people does seem a bit off)
MF (a bit more vibes based I guess, but the recent push for targetting Butterfree and especially doing so while she's continuing to pressure Mawile kinda rubs me the wrong way?)


IDK: Everyone else (either hasn't posted much/at all or just kinda didn't stand out as particularly towny or mafia-y)

 

[Keldeo]

ah, y'know what. fuck it, I'm staying on the horse

Vote: Butterfree again

Could I ask you to say more? Particularly, it seems to imply that she's targeting town!Mawile; I know you had been leaning sus on Mawile, so what had made you change your mind?

My mildly tinfoil hat theory here is that Ever doesn't have a night action and is some flavor of vanilla. Leaning slightly more townie I guess because I feel like if ve was mafia then the other mafia would be able to tell ver that "hey no we (probably?) don't have night actions either it doesn't mean anything" (I feel like this isn't the type of game to give mafia both regular night actions and a factional kill but maybe I am wrong!)

This is jumping out at me rereading Mawile. What exactly do you mean by not feeling like this is the "type of game" to give mafia both regular night actions and a factional kill? Is there something specific about the setup that makes you think this? Maybe I'm tunneling but it almost reads like TMI to me, apparently basing a read on a strange baseless assumption about what the mafia in this game have going on?

This also stood out to me, but it would be more like a town slip if the mafia in this game actually do have actions, right? But either of those interpretations sort of assumes that a mafia Mawile would not be capable of thinking about other potential setups than the one they know exists, which seems a little uncharitable.

Slightly Trust: mewtini, Butterfree (both seem about as active and contributing takes as when they were Town recently)
...
MF (a bit more vibes based I guess, but the recent push for targetting Butterfree and especially doing so while she's continuing to pressure Mawile kinda rubs me the wrong way?)

Could you explain this "especially"? I thought you had also been leaning good on MF due to her similarity to your past experiences; what makes you hold onto those reads for mewtini and Butterfree but not for MF?

Given that you suspect both MF and Mawile, could you please place a vote?

 

[Dodge]

ah, y'know what. fuck it, I'm staying on the horse

Vote: Butterfree again

Could I ask you to say more? Particularly, it seems to imply that she's targeting town!Mawile; I know you had been leaning sus on Mawile, so what had made you change your mind?

My mildly tinfoil hat theory here is that Ever doesn't have a night action and is some flavor of vanilla. Leaning slightly more townie I guess because I feel like if ve was mafia then the other mafia would be able to tell ver that "hey no we (probably?) don't have night actions either it doesn't mean anything" (I feel like this isn't the type of game to give mafia both regular night actions and a factional kill but maybe I am wrong!)

This is jumping out at me rereading Mawile. What exactly do you mean by not feeling like this is the "type of game" to give mafia both regular night actions and a factional kill? Is there something specific about the setup that makes you think this? Maybe I'm tunneling but it almost reads like TMI to me, apparently basing a read on a strange baseless assumption about what the mafia in this game have going on?

This also stood out to me, but it would be more like a town slip if the mafia in this game actually do have actions, right? But either of those interpretations sort of assumes that a mafia Mawile would not be capable of thinking about other potential setups than the one they know exists, which seems a little uncharitable.

Slightly Trust: mewtini, Butterfree (both seem about as active and contributing takes as when they were Town recently)
...
MF (a bit more vibes based I guess, but the recent push for targetting Butterfree and especially doing so while she's continuing to pressure Mawile kinda rubs me the wrong way?)

Could you explain this "especially"? I thought you had also been leaning good on MF due to her similarity to your past experiences; what makes you hold onto those reads for mewtini and Butterfree but not for MF?

Given that you suspect both MF and Mawile, could you please place a vote?

I was leaning towards town!MF earlier, and like I said this is a bit more vibes based, but just the sudden shift to pressuring Butterfree and diverting away from Mawile is what brought her down like this. Still, I guess putting her on IDK would be more accurate. If Mawile goes down and flips Mafia, that will bring MF to Pretty Iffy.
In which case, I do believe I will Vote: Mawile

 

[Keldeo]

Wouldn't you say that mewtini has been responsible for diverting away from Mawile, too?

 

[MF the ISOable]

ah, y'know what. fuck it, I'm staying on the horse

Vote: Butterfree again

Could I ask you to say more? Particularly, it seems to imply that she's targeting town!Mawile; I know you had been leaning sus on Mawile, so what had made you change your mind?

I just kinda trust Butterfree less than Mawile at this point, and also there's always a point in mafia where you have to be a little stubborn so as to not talk yourself out of every possible move

 

[Dodge]

I answered but didn't actually elaborate on what you asked lol
The "especially" there was basically: If I'm sus on Mawile, MF was initially sus on Mawile, but now targetting someone else who is targetting Mawile, that makes me trust MF less. It's multiple logical leaps, so that's why I'm seeing it as more vibes-based, I guess

mewtini did divert away from Mawile at first, but like...I feel like it was earlier on, farther from EoD, so it felt more like Town pursuing other leads than Mafia trying to save a fellow Mafia. IDK, it feels different?

That said, looking back through the thread again made me see MF's first post that I still feel like it was Town baiting Mafia shots, so I'm trusting her more again.
My opinions are fickle lol

 

[Dodge]

ah, y'know what. fuck it, I'm staying on the horse

Vote: Butterfree again

Could I ask you to say more? Particularly, it seems to imply that she's targeting town!Mawile; I know you had been leaning sus on Mawile, so what had made you change your mind?

I just kinda trust Butterfree less than Mawile at this point, and also there's always a point in mafia where you have to be a little stubborn so as to not talk yourself out of every possible move

I love how you posted this as I simultaneously talked myself out of suspecting you lmao

 

[Keldeo]

ah, y'know what. fuck it, I'm staying on the horse

Vote: Butterfree again

Could I ask you to say more? Particularly, it seems to imply that she's targeting town!Mawile; I know you had been leaning sus on Mawile, so what had made you change your mind?

I just kinda trust Butterfree less than Mawile at this point, and also there's always a point in mafia where you have to be a little stubborn so as to not talk yourself out of every possible move

Sorry if I'm being a nag - I guess my question is like, where did that relative erosion of trust in Butterfree and/or gain of trust in Mawile come from? Like, still the placement of the vote on Mawile?