HG/SS Competitive Team

[Holy Pokemon Master]

I am trying to create a good competitive team. Here is my current team, please critique anything you see wrong.

Empoleon
Ability: Torrent
Item: Wise Glasses
Hydro Pump
Ice Beam
Flash Cannon
Signal Beam

Zapdos
Ability: Pressure
Item: Focus Sash
Thunder
Charge
Ominous Wind
Heat Wave

Shuckle
Ability: Gluttony
Item: Undecided
Rock Slide
Toxic
Power Swap
???-(Forgot)

Gallade
Ability: Steadfast
Item: Muscle Band
Psycho Cut
Brick Break
Leaf Blade
Aerial Ace

Blaziken
Ability: Blaze
Item: Undecided
Blaze Kick
Sky Uppercut
Shadow Claw
Thunderpunch

Blissey
Ability: Serene Grace
Item: Focus Sash
Endeavor
Softboiled
Charge Beam
Psychic

 

[Phoenixsong]

I don't have a lot of time, but I will say that charge is generally a waste on competitive pokémon. Using thunder twice in a row (and I'd really switch to thunderbolt without rain dance to improve thunder's accuracy) technically does as much damage as using charge and then thunder. The difference is that you aren't giving your opponent a free turn to set up, switch, etc., thunder's side-effect has two chances to kick in instead of one, you might critical or something on the first turn... and zapdos's special attack is already so high that it's going to be doing a lot of damage to anything that doesn't resist it/isn't blissey, so doubling thunder's damage is probably overkill in the first place.

If you want to keep thunder, replace charge with rain dance; otherwise, I'd go with thunderbolt or at least discharge if you can't get the TM easily and/or prefer the higher paralysis chance.

 

[1. Luftballon]

don't focus sash things as bulky as zapdos and blissey. they're not likely to be taken out in a single turn anyway. it's fairly ineffective with the prevalence of stealth rock anyway.

blissey does not want endeavor. it has more hp damaged than most things do full. use leftovers, and ev it for defense. natural cure unless you have aromatherapy or heal bell. (if you're not up against hyperoffensive special, you might use bold, but otherwise calm.) seismic toss is the perennial favorite attack move, because blissey's attacks are pathetic, except on calm mind sets, which appreciate ice beam, flamethrower, or fire blast.

 

[Holy Pokemon Master]

Understood. I figured that would be an area of interest...

 

[J.T.]

Need natures and EVs of these Pokemon for a better analysis.

Empoleon
Ability: Torrent
Item: Wise Glasses
Hydro Pump
Ice Beam
Flash Cannon
Signal Beam

Empoleon doesn't do well as a straightforward sweeper because his offensive movepool is so limited. He's better relegated to things like the SubPetaya strategy - give him a Petaya Berry, Substitute, and Agility, switch in on something Empoleon resists (and because of his typing, that's a lot), use Agility on the switch, and use Substitute until you hit 25% health, at which point the Petaya Berry will kick in along with Torrent, allowing you to pull off an amazing late-game sweep.

But if you really want to use this kind of Empoleon, I'd suggest you drop Hydro Pump for Surf. A miss can easily mean death. Replace Signal Beam with Grass Knot, it provides much better type coverage and power. Wise Glasses isn't a great item, so I'd go with Life Orb or even Leftovers instead.

Zapdos
Ability: Pressure
Item: Focus Sash
Thunder
Charge
Ominous Wind
Heat Wave

I'm... not really sure what this Zapdos is meant to do. Is it defensive or offensive?

If it's offensive, Heat Wave looks good. Charge and Thunder are both useless - Thunder's accuracy is terrible, and Charge just gives the opponent another turn to beat on you. Replace Thunder with Thunderbolt. Ominous Wind is terrible. It's too weak, and the stat boost is rare. Find somewhere to put Roost on this set so you can heal when you need to, and find out what this thing's Hidden Power type is. If it's Grass or Ice, great, use it. If not... well, Zapdos doesn't have a lot of options. Signal Beam is the only one I can think of that's not a complete waste, and even that's a pathetic option.

If it's defensive, pretty much everything I just said still applies. You might want to drop Heat Wave for Roar to force out anything trying to boost on you, or replace Hidden Power/Signal Beam with Reflect or Light Screen, but overall they're pretty similar.

Like sres said, Focus Sash is wasted on Pokemon like Zapdos. Use Leftovers or Life Orb instead.

Shuckle
Ability: Gluttony
Item: Undecided
Rock Slide
Toxic
Power Swap <-- Do you mean Power Trick? I'm pretty sure Shuckle can't learn Power Swap.
???-(Forgot)

The ability on Shuckle really doesn't matter, but if you're battling over WiFi, then Sturdy would probably be a better option in case some jerkoff decides to pull a Horn Drill on you.

Rock Slide and Toxic look good, but Power Trick is a serious problem. Power Trick Shuckle is a gimmick at best. In double battles it could work, with liberal use of Follow Me and a ridiculously bulky Clefable, but in single battles it fails instantly. Shuckle may have astronomical Attack after using it, but it also has paper-thin Defense, and no matter what the situation, you're going to be screwed over. Shuckle's speed is the lowest in the game, so you'll be crushed flat before you can pull off a single attack. Drop it for Knock Off. Protect is a viable option to stall for Toxic damage, but Stealth Rock is a nice move that your team happens to be missing.

Leftovers is the item for this set - there's pretty much no other option.

Gallade
Ability: Steadfast
Item: Muscle Band
Psycho Cut
Brick Break
Leaf Blade
Aerial Ace

Replace the Muscle Band with either a Choice Scarf or a Choice Band - Scarf for speed, Band for pure power. Replace Brick Break with Close Combat, and Leaf Blade for Ice Punch. If you decide to run a Choice Band set, replace Aerial Ace with Shadow Sneak; if you're using a Scarf, use Night Slash.

Blaziken
Ability: Blaze
Item: Undecided
Blaze Kick
Sky Uppercut
Shadow Claw
Thunderpunch

Blaziken is too slow to pull off an effective sweep without any sort of boost. Either give him a Choice Scarf or replace Shadow Claw with Agility. I'd also suggest dropped Sky Uppercut for Superpower.

Blissey
Ability: Serene Grace
Item: Focus Sash
Endeavor
Softboiled
Charge Beam
Psychic

Hoo boy. First off, there is no point in having a Focus Sash on something as bulky as Blissey. Drop it for Leftovers. Next, Endeavor is terrible on Blissey. Her Attack is terrible, and it'll be pathetically weak even with the status effect boost. Softboiled is good. Charge Beam... eh. I suppose it could work, but you'd probably be better off with either Toxic or Seismic Toss. Psychic isn't a good attacking type unless it has STAB, so drop it for Ice Beam. Serene Grace is workable with your current set, particularly in conjunction with Charge Beam, but Natural Cure's probably the better option since Blissey's inevitably going to get hit with Toxic, and being able to clear that away is a nice ability to have.

 

[1. Luftballon]

Need natures and EVs of these Pokemon for a better analysis.



Empoleon doesn't do well as a straightforward sweeper because his offensive movepool is so limited. He's better relegated to things like the SubPetaya strategy - give him a Petaya Berry, Substitute, and Agility, switch in on something Empoleon resists (and because of his typing, that's a lot), use Agility on the switch, and use Substitute until you hit 25% health, at which point the Petaya Berry will kick in along with Torrent, allowing you to pull off an amazing late-game sweep.

But if you really want to use this kind of Empoleon, I'd suggest you drop Hydro Pump for Surf. A miss can easily mean death. Replace Signal Beam with Grass Knot, it provides much better type coverage and power. Wise Glasses isn't a great item, so I'd go with Life Orb or even Leftovers instead.

subpetaya and life orb don't work well. at 25% hp, you're going to die after three attacks.

I'm... not really sure what this Zapdos is meant to do. Is it defensive or offensive?

If it's offensive, Heat Wave looks good. Charge and Thunder are both useless - Thunder's accuracy is terrible, and Charge just gives the opponent another turn to beat on you. Replace Thunder with Thunderbolt. Ominous Wind is terrible. It's too weak, and the stat boost is rare. Find somewhere to put Roost on this set so you can heal when you need to, and find out what this thing's Hidden Power type is. If it's Grass or Ice, great, use it. If not... well, Zapdos doesn't have a lot of options. Signal Beam is the only one I can think of that's not a complete waste, and even that's a pathetic option.

u-turn is situationally useful. usually when you're expecting a specially-defensive wall to switch in. also hp ice 30 is still horrible. in such case, prefer light screen, thunder wave, or toxic for team support.

If it's defensive, pretty much everything I just said still applies. You might want to drop Heat Wave for Roar to force out anything trying to boost on you, or replace Hidden Power/Signal Beam with Reflect or Light Screen, but overall they're pretty similar.

for bulkies, discharge is an okay option over thunderbolt due to paralysis chance.

Like sres said, Focus Sash is wasted on Pokemon like Zapdos. Use Leftovers or Life Orb instead.

choice items are a choice, too, pun intended.

(incidentally, if you must abbreviate it, I prefer "res".)

The ability on Shuckle really doesn't matter, but if you're battling over WiFi, then Sturdy would probably be a better option in case some jerkoff decides to pull a Horn Drill on you.

in standards, gluttony is slightly better in the highly-contrived case where you get a confusion berry tricked onto you, unless using natural gift. without ohko clause, sturdy is undoubtedly better.

Rock Slide and Toxic look good, but Power Trick is a serious problem. Power Trick Shuckle is a gimmick at best. In double battles it could work, with liberal use of Follow Me and a ridiculously bulky Clefable, but in single battles it fails instantly.

explosive trick roomer (id est, bronzong). slow trick roomer with fling and king's rock works too.

Shuckle may have astronomical Attack after using it, but it also has paper-thin Defense, and no matter what the situation, you're going to be screwed over. Shuckle's speed is the lowest in the game, so you'll be crushed flat before you can pull off a single attack. Drop it for Knock Off. Protect is a viable option to stall for Toxic damage, but Stealth Rock is a nice move that your team happens to be missing.

Leftovers is the item for this set - there's pretty much no other option.

use encore. chestorest is a mediocre but workable option. toxistall and encore is basically all shuck can do. well, or wrap for more toxic damage.

Replace the Muscle Band with either a Choice Scarf or a Choice Band - Scarf for speed, Band for pure power. Replace Brick Break with Close Combat, and Leaf Blade for Ice Punch. If you decide to run a Choice Band set, replace Aerial Ace with Shadow Sneak; if you're using a Scarf, use Night Slash.

CC/shadow sneak gets perfect coverage, though shadow sneak does mediocre damage. I like subsalac swords dance on gallade, but YMMV.

Blaziken is too slow to pull off an effective sweep without any sort of boost. Either give him a Choice Scarf or replace Shadow Claw with Agility. I'd also suggest dropped Sky Uppercut for Superpower.

fighting/ghost is perfect coverage, though. of course, you can scarf it, and it'll still be a brilliant wallbreaker.

Hoo boy. First off, there is no point in having a Focus Sash on something as bulky as Blissey. Drop it for Leftovers. Next, Endeavor is terrible on Blissey. Her Attack is terrible, and it'll be pathetically weak even with the status effect boost. Softboiled is good. Charge Beam... eh. I suppose it could work, but you'd probably be better off with either Toxic or Seismic Toss. Psychic isn't a good attacking type unless it has STAB, so drop it for Ice Beam. Serene Grace is workable with your current set, particularly in conjunction with Charge Beam, but Natural Cure's probably the better option since Blissey's inevitably going to get hit with Toxic, and being able to clear that away is a nice ability to have.

you're confusing endeavor with facade. endeavor is just even more terrible on blissey.

 

[J.T.]

subpetaya and life orb don't work well. at 25% hp, you're going to die after three attacks.

I didn't mean use them both at the same time - you can't, anyway. I meant he should use Life Orb if he doesn't run the SubPetaya set.

also hp ice 30 is still horrible.

Right, didn't think to mention that.

choice items are a choice, too, pun intended.

Never really seen a Choiced Zapdos, but that doesn't sound like a bad idea. Again, though, Zapdos doesn't have the greatest attacking movepool. Guess you could put something like Toxic in the last slot.

explosive trick roomer (id est, bronzong). slow trick roomer with fling and king's rock works too.

Problem with that is that when Bronzong or whatever explodes, you still have to spend your first turn using Power Trick. So Shuckle will go first, swap its defense and attack, and get OHKOed by whatever the opponent sent out.

you're confusing endeavor with facade.

Oh. :| Sorry. Still not a good move.

 

[1. Luftballon]

:/ you're quoting me as HPM. lol.

I didn't mean use them both at the same time - you can't, anyway. I meant he should use Life Orb if he doesn't run the SubPetaya set.

oh yes.

Never really seen a Choiced Zapdos, but that doesn't sound like a bad idea. Again, though, Zapdos doesn't have the greatest attacking movepool. Guess you could put something like Toxic in the last slot.

typically something like tbolt/heat wave/hp something/u-turn.

Problem with that is that when Bronzong or whatever explodes, you still have to spend your first turn using Power Trick. So Shuckle will go first, swap its defense and attack, and get OHKOed by whatever the opponent sent out.

I mean in doubles. actually, explosion was not strictly necessary. or useful.

Oh. :| Sorry. Still not a good move.

actually probably worse.

 

[J.T.]

:/ you're quoting me as HPM. lol.

Oops. Fix'd.

typically something like tbolt/heat wave/hp something/u-turn.

Ah. Makes sense.

I mean in doubles. actually, explosion was not strictly necessary. or useful.

Oh, doubles. Yeah, I think Explosion would do more harm than good there, since it'd hit Shuckle too.

 

[Holy Pokemon Master]

OK, I have a very good idea of how my team should be. Thank you.

 

[Holy Pokemon Master]

I've returned. I haven't changed anything on Empoleon because I like the moveset (don't critique, Modest nature by the way). Here are the natures of the other Pokémon and also the move changes:

Zapdos
Nature: Modest
Charge changed to Rain Dance

Blissey
Ability: Serene Grace
Nature: Calm
Endeavor changed to Heal Bell

Shuckle
Ability: Sturdy
Nature: Impish
Fourth move is Stealth Rock

 

[1. Luftballon]

I've returned. I haven't changed anything on Empoleon because I like the moveset (don't critique, Modest nature by the way).

...if you are unwilling to make a change from mostly useless to its user to something better in almost every way, you cease to be battling competitively. steel and bug are horrible offensive types. hydro pump and surf is a bit of a trade-off, though I prefer that if you can get perfect accuracy and decent power, take it over slightly higher power and non-perfect accuracy, but if your choices are already inaccurate, go with the higher power.

for the rest, you should read the responses. helpful responses aren't helpful if you don't read them.

 

[J.T.]

Natures are perfect, I'll give you that. But why the hell would you ask for help developing your team if you refuse to take it?

 

[1. Luftballon]

well, timid is more recommended on non-boosting sweeping zapdos, and the +*def,-atk natures are used for bulky zapdos. but modest is an decent choice.

 

[Holy Pokemon Master]

I meant to say don't critique Empoleon. Everything else you can critique. Sorry...:sad:

 

[1. Luftballon]

then I'll say, replace it.

 

[Holy Pokemon Master]

No...I am not replacing it. I guess I'm not a good competitive battler then...

 

[Autumn]

No...I am not replacing it. I guess I'm not a good competitive battler then...

Er, no. Any particular reason why you refuse to replace it/change its moveset?

 

[J.T.]

Generally, if someone's suggesting you change something up, it's because there's something wrong with it that needs improving. I didn't think I'd need to point that out, but.

Yeah, a reason why you refuse to take suggestions would be nice.

 

[Holy Pokemon Master]

Well, maybe its because of the fact that I've won many matches that went down to the wire with Empoleon. By the way, you all are right about the Signal Beam thing. It HAS to go. But now I need to find Grass Knot's TM. I'm sorry if I am causing you all any trouble... T.T