Gen VI Pokéchoice Mafia - Game Thread

[Vipera Magnifica]

Re: Gen VI Pokéchoice Mafia - Game Thread

Not sure if I approve of Negrek's plan because it cuts Butterfree and Tailsy out of the equation. I am quite positive that one, if not both of them, are mafia. As a matter of fact, if they are both mafia, then lover is a pretty easy claim to make because 1. no one wants to lynch the lovers because of the risk, and 2. it would explain how they are working together. On top of that, you have the claim that they are "protected" by Butterfree's power - perhaps this is their attempt at explaining why the "mafia" hasn't targeted them yet? The more I think about it, the less I would trust either of them.

Let's just say we ran neg's setup. Butterfree could kill ILS and block Zexion's bodyguarding - this would immediately implicate Zexion as mafia.

If Mai and Butterfree target ILS at the same time, at least then Mai could confirm if her action went through (assuming she has access to that information). blazhy can confirm if I am mafia while I inspect Tailsy. Zexion had probably better flip a coin - if heads, heal blazhy, if tails, heal me. Negrek I already inspected, so unless he has some sort of Godfather-type role, which is unlikely, I highly doubt he could be mafia.

How much time do we have left at this point?

 

[M&F]

Re: Gen VI Pokéchoice Mafia - Game Thread

How much time do we have left at this point?

I've been doling out the time extensions at around 2 AM in my timezone (which, for the record, is 3+ -- one ahead of pretty much every single USA timezone, and I'm not entirely sure how DST is affecting things right now).

So that means about... five or six more hours.

 

[Mai]

Re: Gen VI Pokéchoice Mafia - Game Thread

... I don't feel like doing the thing where I answer through members of Metallica, but, so as long as they go about obtaining their information through active night actions, they can be roleblocked.

Well then! Inconvenient, but.

Does this mean "passive" abilities cannot be blocked?

Not sure if I approve of Negrek's plan because it cuts Butterfree and Tailsy out of the equation. I am quite positive that one, if not both of them, are mafia. As a matter of fact, if they are both mafia, then lover is a pretty easy claim to make because 1. no one wants to lynch the lovers because of the risk, and 2. it would explain how they are working together. On top of that, you have the claim that they are "protected" by Butterfree's power - perhaps this is their attempt at explaining why the "mafia" hasn't targeted them yet? The more I think about it, the less I would trust either of them.

Let's just say we ran neg's setup. Butterfree could kill ILS and block Zexion's bodyguarding - this would immediately implicate Zexion as mafia.

If Mai and Butterfree target ILS at the same time, at least then Mai could confirm if her action went through (assuming she has access to that information). blazhy can confirm if I am mafia while I inspect Tailsy. Zexion had probably better flip a coin - if heads, heal blazhy, if tails, heal me. Negrek I already inspected, so unless he has some sort of Godfather-type role, which is unlikely, I highly doubt he could be mafia.

Yeah, I was uncomfortable at that, too - that plan sounds like it might work better? It all depends on ILS, though.

 

[Butterfree]

Re: Gen VI Pokéchoice Mafia - Game Thread

Not sure if I approve of Negrek's plan because it cuts Butterfree and Tailsy out of the equation. I am quite positive that one, if not both of them, are mafia. As a matter of fact, if they are both mafia, then lover is a pretty easy claim to make because 1. no one wants to lynch the lovers because of the risk, and 2. it would explain how they are working together. On top of that, you have the claim that they are "protected" by Butterfree's power - perhaps this is their attempt at explaining why the "mafia" hasn't targeted them yet? The more I think about it, the less I would trust either of them.

Let's just say we ran neg's setup. Butterfree could kill ILS and block Zexion's bodyguarding - this would immediately implicate Zexion as mafia.

If Mai and Butterfree target ILS at the same time, at least then Mai could confirm if her action went through (assuming she has access to that information). blazhy can confirm if I am mafia while I inspect Tailsy. Zexion had probably better flip a coin - if heads, heal blazhy, if tails, heal me. Negrek I already inspected, so unless he has some sort of Godfather-type role, which is unlikely, I highly doubt he could be mafia.

How much time do we have left at this point?

I can't block one person and kill another - I can only choose to kill the person I picked up at the end of the night, after possibly exchanging messages with them. (Though I really don't understand the logic behind thinking I'm mafia, have a killing action and then chose specifically to tell you truthfully about it before using it. What on earth would be the gain in that for me?)

Can the oracle actually ask a question that will directly reveal the alignment of a particular player? The restriction on asking directly about player alignment isn't worth much if you can just replace the player's username with a euphemism that obviously applies specifically only to them. "Have any mafia-aligned players claimed lovers" is within the line (or at least more so) since it can refer to two different players, but there is only one player who can even in theory be Litleo here.

 

[M&F]

Re: Gen VI Pokéchoice Mafia - Game Thread

Well then! Inconvenient, but.

Does this mean "passive" abilities cannot be blocked?

Not by the kind of roleblocking I'd run conventionally, but who knows what I'm up to this time?

(I feel like there's a blade inching closer to my neck everytime I give these cryptic answers)

 

[Mai]

Re: Gen VI Pokéchoice Mafia - Game Thread

Not by the kind of roleblocking I'd run conventionally, but who knows what I'm up to this time?

(I feel like there's a blade inching closer to my neck everytime I give these cryptic answers)

...

...

...

I can't block one person and kill another - I can only choose to kill the person I picked up at the end of the night, after possibly exchanging messages with them. (Though I really don't understand the logic behind thinking I'm mafia, have a killing action and then chose specifically to tell you truthfully about it before using it. What on earth would be the gain in that for me?)

Can the oracle actually ask a question that will directly reveal the alignment of a particular player? The restriction on asking directly about player alignment isn't worth much if you can just replace the player's username with a euphemism that obviously applies specifically only to them. "Have any mafia-aligned players claimed lovers" is within the line (or at least more so) since it can refer to two different players, but there is only one player who can even in theory be Litleo here.

Possibly to justify vigilante justice/nightkills with "oh, I thought they were mafia?" Ehhh.

Obviously, only blazhy acting through Metallica or Metallica himself can answer that question. :V Generally, it's more something that would reveal alignment is fine, and not alignment itself, I think; though that depends on the game, and the difference between that can be subtle - just not asking alignment itself.

 

[blazheirio889]

Re: Gen VI Pokéchoice Mafia - Game Thread

What about that question Butterfree asked? Is a question like "did any mafia members claim ____" a valid oracle question?

Also guys, I dunno, it might be simpler just to lynch Zexion and then make a plan to gather information? Since everyone seems to be suspicious of him, plus having a bodyguard doesn't /prevent/ mafia kills, only redirects them. And if we have an inspector and a pseudo-inspector, then idk if we really need to redirect stuff?

Finally, with how MF is answering questions, clearly the only valid thing to do is to lynch MF.

 

[Mai]

Re: Gen VI Pokéchoice Mafia - Game Thread

What about that question Butterfree asked? Is a question like "did any mafia members claim ____" a valid oracle question?

Also guys, I dunno, it might be simpler just to lynch Zexion and then make a plan to gather information? Since everyone seems to be suspicious of him, plus having a bodyguard doesn't /prevent/ mafia kills, only redirects them. And if we have an inspector and a pseudo-inspector, then idk if we really need to redirect stuff?

Finally, with how MF is answering questions, clearly the only valid thing to do is to lynch MF.

That was the question she asked, yes?

Hmm, yeah, maybe??? Though we have a nice plan now. Zexion, how does your bodyguarding work, precisely? Do you have any special attributes, or are you just die-in-place?

Lynch the GM and everyone wins!

 

[blazheirio889]

Re: Gen VI Pokéchoice Mafia - Game Thread

Yeah, but MF didn't seem to see it, or just decided to tiptoe around it instead of getting a cryptic answer and having the phantom blade inch closer to his neck. :P So I'm asking again.

As VM pointed out, though, the big problem with the plan is that it cuts Tailsy and Butterfree out. And since it's likely either are mafia and thus both will act like mafia, that could seriously ruin our plans. So I'unno which would be better, lynching Zexion, or just going along with Negrek's plan.

(just in case it wasn't clear, my vote still technically stays as abstain :P)

 

[Mai]

Re: Gen VI Pokéchoice Mafia - Game Thread

Yeah, but MF didn't seem to see it, or just decided to tiptoe around it instead of getting a cryptic answer and having the phantom blade inch closer to his neck. :P So I'm asking again.

As VM pointed out, though, the big problem with the plan is that it cuts Tailsy and Butterfree out. And since it's likely either are mafia and thus both will act like mafia, that could seriously ruin our plans. So I'unno which would be better, lynching Zexion, or just going along with Negrek's plan.

(just in case it wasn't clear, my vote still technically stays as abstain :P)

Follow VM's plan, then? I think it'd still work roughly the same way - just incorporating them, so.

 

[Negrek]

Re: Gen VI Pokéchoice Mafia - Game Thread

I haven't read through everything carefully and considered it all yet, but what if VM and Zexion are mafia, both have targeted actions, but neither of them are the don?

Like I said, we would be screwed.

Not sure if I approve of Negrek's plan because it cuts Butterfree and Tailsy out of the equation.

Fair enough. I didn't include them because I didn't see them being able to easily mess with things without us knowing and figured we could deal with them later. I was assuming Butterfree could only kill whomever she targeted with the roleblock, as she said earlier.

If Mai and Butterfree target ILS at the same time, at least then Mai could confirm if her action went through (assuming she has access to that information).

Ah yeah, I forgot about Mai's targeting ability. If she can tell whether she hit successfully, then we don't need Zexion to guard him since it doesn't matter whether or not he lives (erm, sorry ILS). Of course he hasn't bothered to show up and say anything so relying on him isn't an ideal scenario anyway. This means we don't get any read on Zexion's alignment, but should get something about Butterfree, which I think is preferable.

We can lynch Zexion today I guess if you're really convinced, but if he flips innocent doesn't that mean we lose at the end of the night as long as the mafia are successful in their attack?

time to bandwagon MF

 

[blazheirio889]

Re: Gen VI Pokéchoice Mafia - Game Thread

If he's innocent and the mafia go through with their kill and Butterfree doesn't manage to kill a mafia member, then yes, we lose. The question is if we're more confident in our nightplan, or in our belief that Zexion is mafia.

 

[Butterfree]

Re: Gen VI Pokéchoice Mafia - Game Thread

Okay, so I block Mai tonight? Everyone in agreement on that? I'm going to bed now, but if I find tomorrow that everyone has recommended something different I'll do that instead.

 

[Negrek]

Re: Gen VI Pokéchoice Mafia - Game Thread

No. Block ILS.

 

[blazheirio889]

Re: Gen VI Pokéchoice Mafia - Game Thread

Okay wait can Negrek repost the final plan in one post, to minimize confusion and night action oops?

 

[Negrek]

Re: Gen VI Pokéchoice Mafia - Game Thread

I believe it's supposed to be:

Mai targets ILS
Butterfree targets ILS
Zexion flips and protects either VM or blazheirio889, 50/50 chance.
VM inspects Tailsy
blazheirio889 asks after VM's alignment--somehow? I don't know if we've come up with the question here.

That's VM's proposal, anyway.

We should be able to confirm that Butterfree's power works as advertised based on what Mai and ILS report. (Though tbh I don't know if this means much?? Roleblocking is often a mafia power, isn't it?)

I don't like this as much as my original proposal because for me the problem was that I don't know if I trust either VM or blazheirio889 (VM much less trustworthy IMO) and this plan does nothing to comment on VM's alignment. It also won't directly reveal any mafia members unless, again, we trust VM's alignment (and we only get any information at all if he survives the night!). It will however confirm that Butterfree is a roleblocker; I don't know how much that information's worth.

My original proposal was as follows:

VM inspect ILS
Zexion protect ILS
blazheirio889 ask about ILS' alignment
Butterfree blocks Tailsy

The idea was primarily to guarantee that we get enough information to likely make at least one lynch tomorrow with some degree of confidence. (But since we've never gotten a response on ILS' power, it might all just be bollocks anyway; VM's plan will work as long as ILS' power is at least vaguely similar to what we think it is.)

But honestly, several people have expressed that the problem with the original plan was that it didn't account for Butterfree/Tailsy and they don't trust them. If we're that worried about those two, why don't we just lynch one and have done with it? We have the potential to get some info about one of their alignments through VM's plan, but it hinges on VM not being mafia and surviving the night in order to work. I think it would be safer to just lynch now if we're feeling that suspicious.

 

[blazheirio889]

Re: Gen VI Pokéchoice Mafia - Game Thread

We're really running out of time here, so I doubt we can lynch either Butterfree or Tailsy. I don't find them suspicious enough to lynch, given that if we're wrong we'll definitely lose. I /do/ find Zexion suspicious enough to lynch, but then I don't think we've formulated a plan on if we do that, and it might be too late to do anyway.

Don't we get VM's alignment from my oracle question? Granted, if I die, then whoops.

Wait, in Negrek's original plan, why does Butterfree have to block Tailsy?

 

[Negrek]

Re: Gen VI Pokéchoice Mafia - Game Thread

Again, only if you don't die, and only if we assume you aren't mafia.

I only said for Butterfree to block Tailsy in order to protect her--if we're assuming they're innocent, then we don't want them dead tomorrow night, and that gives the best defense we can, I think?

It's late in the game, but I can force a lynch vote, of course, if that's the desired outcome. I personally don't suspect Zexion nearly so much as I suspect Butterfree and Tailsy, but if we want him dead I can make that happen. If he dies then we would simply go with VM's plan, I guess, in which case the mafia do 100% get to decide whether they'd rather you or VM (or, hey, someone else) die because there's not even a chance of defending you--but if you're that sure Zexion is mafia anyway, you essentially have no protection to begin with and nothing is lost by lynching now.

 

[blazheirio889]

Re: Gen VI Pokéchoice Mafia - Game Thread

Didn't we establish that doing the thing won't be a good idea because the mafia can essentially hijack the vote?

Butterfree said that they'll /probably/ be okay if Butterfree doesn't target Tailsy. It's really whether we want to protect them, or whether we want to confirm Butterfree's role (and we can do that by, say, telling Butterfree to target Mai).

 

[Negrek]

Re: Gen VI Pokéchoice Mafia - Game Thread

We can confirm Butterfree's role but not her alignment. How does that help?