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HG/SS Hey! Help Me. (Please?)

Chief Zackrai

pingpong wixard
Alright. I kind of feel bad about how my last thread on this went, so I thought I'd start over. Thanks in advance for the help.

If you've already seen my team, this will not be new information to you. But if you haven't here it is:
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W/ Muscle Band A: Poison Point N: Sassy
Ice Beam
Stone Edge
Earthquake
Megahorn/ Superpower/ Filler move

He's a brawler. I have a couple pokemon like this, so different ideas for pokemon/ moves wanted.

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W/ Life Orb A:Magic Guard N: Relaxed
Meteor Mash
Flamethrower
Moonlight
Magic Coat

Gave this one a little more thought. Not much else can be said.

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W/ Expert Belt A: Battle Armor N:Adamant
Nightslash
Waterfall/Aqua Tail
Stone Edge
Brick Break

Another brawler. He's strong, and has decent types.

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W/Leftovers A: Inner Focus N:Brave
Draco Metoer
Aerial Ace
Dragon Claw
Fire Blast

I've heard this one is not recommended. I like it, it's one of my standards.

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W/ ??? Item A:Static N: Bold
Thuderbolt
Signal Beam
Focus Blast
??? move

I need some real help with this one. However, it is another pokemon I really like to use.

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W/ Toxic Orb A: Poison Heal N: Careful
Seed Bomb
Mach Punch
Swords Dance
Spore/ some other move like this

Once again, just a pokemon I would like to use. I've been told the moveset is decent, but I wouldn't know the truth.

Also, if someone could explain some of these terms to me, that would be much appreciated.

Thanks!
 
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Well i dont competitive battle and i suck at this but if no one else has anything to say fireblast is very innacurate and you should probably use flamethrower.
 
Well i dont competitive battle and i suck at this but if no one else has anything to say fireblast is very innacurate and you should probably use flamethrower.

Fire Blast isn't *that* inaccurate compared with some of the other moves that get used (Focus Blast anyone?) and on something physical-based like the Dragonite the extra power's somewhat more important than the accuracy.
 
Yeah, I'd probably have to agree with Leafpool on that one. I chose Fire Blast for that reason.

Please, someone explain these competitive battling terms to me!
 
Define "these competitive battling terms". I know what you mean in general but what are you specifically looking to have defined?
 
things like UU, and some other terms that I can't remember right now. I'll edit after I look for them.

EDIT!: ABP, BP, a few others I couldn't find (sorry)
 
my computer doesn't like that site. is it on any others?
Tiers are basically limitations in a tournament.

Uber: Mew/Two, Lugia/Ho-oh, Dragon Trio, Weather Trio, Lati, Darkrai, Arceus, Manaphy, Skymin, Garchomp, Wobuffet/Wynaut. Banned from competitive play.
Overused: Everything bar the Ubers.
Borderline: All the sub-standard Pokemon. IE Everything but the Overused.
Underused: As the label says.
Neverused: As the label says.
Not Fully Evolved: As the label says.

Also, we need to learn IVs and EVs of your Pokemon to make a complete check.

IVs: Individual values. Its characteristics. It should say on the status page.
EVs: Effort values. To make sure these are exactly the way you want, feed it EV reducing berries, then calculate the level and the base stats to figure out the IV. Then move on from there.

IVs are what Pokemon are born with. For example, Mudkip A has 6 speed while B has 12 speed as IVs. Therefore to get the same EV stat, A has to work harder to get to the same level as B. So it helps. EVs are what's added to the Pokemon's stats when leveling up. Notice that when you give your Pokemon vitamins the stat gains a point every level. That's 10 EV points to that stat. Every Pokemon has an EV yield. I remember Graveler having 2 for Defense. To get the maximum defense EVs, I need 252 points in Defense. Therefore I need to defeat roughly 125 Graveler.

Unless you play Shoddy Battle. In which case, ignore the last paragraph.
 
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To clarify a bit on what Grimdour said:

OU = Overused
UU = Underused
NU = Neverused
NFE = Not fully evolved

A team belongs to a tier depending on what Pokemon are on it. For example, if it has 6 Pokemon from the UU (Underused) tier, it would probably be considered a UU team, although that's not necessarily the case. It would be able to play in UU tiers as well as every tier above UU - that is, OU and Uber (although it probably wouldn't do very well). However, if you have even one Pokemon who's OU, then that team is above UU - you are no longer allowed to play in UU matches, only OU and Ubers. Breloom and Dragonite are both OU, therefore so is your team.

The tiers go basically in the order Grimdour posted - Uber, OU, UU, NU, and NFE. Not everyone considers Ubers a tier - it was originally created as a banlist for OU where people could stick Pokemon that were too powerful and unfair. For example, if you're battling someone with a good OU team and you whip out something like Kyogre, you're probably going to win unless they have something that's ridiculously specialized in order to beat Kyogre. Therefore, Kyogre is not allowed in OU, or anything lower than that. There's a similar tier in between OU and UU, called BL (or Borderline). It basically serves the same purpose, but it's a banlist for UU. Almost no one does BL battles, and it's my opinion that they could probably just stick BL within OU, but I understand that the OU tier is based on usage rather than ability.

Ubers consists mostly of the more powerful legendaries. As a general rule of thumb, if it's a significant legendary within the games, then it's probably Uber. Members of legendary trios (Articuno/Zapdos/Moltres, Entei/Raikou/Suicune, Regice/Regirock/Registeel, Uxie/Mesprit/Azelf) tend not to be Uber, and some even fall as low as the NU tier. Latias is not considered an Uber unless she has Soul Dew as a hold item, but Latios is an Uber in all cases. Shaymin is Uber if it's in its Sky forme, but not if it's in its regular forme. Phione isn't Uber, but Manaphy is. As well, not all Pokemon in Ubers are legendaries. Wobbuffet and Garchomp are both Ubers - Wobbuffet because its huge HP, its ability, and its moveset essentially guarantee that it will kill the opponent, and Garchomp because it completely upset OU and required people to form entire teams to counter it. It gets kinda confusing keeping track, so try looking up a tier list sometime. Smogon's a good one, but if you can't get on Smogon, I can send you a private message listing all Ubers.

OU is also called the Standard tier, mainly because it's by far the most commonly-played tier. In fact, Pokemon are by definition Overused if they're among the top 50 most-used Pokemon on Shoddy. A few of the more powerful non-Uber legendaries are in it, as well as the majority of the strongest non-legendaries. As I said, your Dragonite and Breloom are both OU.

UU requires a bit more strategy because the people in it tend to be a little more skilled on average - this is probably because the majority of new players pick the strongest Pokemon they can and end up in OU. Your Clefable, Nidoking, and Kabutops are all UU.

NU... well, good luck finding someone to play NU with you. If something ends up here, it doesn't necessarily mean they're bad. It just means they'll need a hell of a strategy to work, and even then there's probably something that can do the job better and more easily. Your Ampharos is NU, which isn't exactly a good thing.

NFEs, for the most part, aren't worth considering. There are two exceptions that I can think of - Scyther, who works great in UU where Scizor is banned; and Chansey, who's basically Blissey for UU. It should be noted that if a Pokemon has something major over its evolution, it is placed in a higher tier (usually NU). For example, because Vigoroth doesn't get Truant whereas Slaking does, Vigoroth is in NU. Scyther and Chansey are both in UU because of usage; Scyther is faster than Scizor, and Chansey has only slightly worse special walling abilities than Blissey.

Okay, EVs stand for Effort Values. Effory Values are the number of Effort Points your Pokemon has from battling. This sounds as clear as mud now, but let me explain. The way the Pokemon games work, the stats you get when your Pokemon levels up is dependent on the things you kill. Every time you defeat another Pokemon, every Pokemon involved in that battle (even the ones that switched out before they did anything or the ones outside of battle holding an Exp. Share) gains a set amount of Effort Points (EPs) in a certain stat depending on what they beat. Let's use Zubat as an example; defeating Zubat gives 1 EP in Speed. So whenever your, let's say Nidoking defeats a Zubat, it will get 1 EP in Speed. You won't see the value anywhere in the game, but you'll definitely notice the results of EV training once your Pokemon levels up.

For every 4 EPs your Pokemon has in one stat, it will get an additional point in that stat when it is at its max level (100). So let's say your Nidoking would have 300 Speed at Lv100 without any Effort Points (which is bullshit, but bear with me). Having just 4 EPs will raise that Speed to a total of 301 by the time your Nidoking is Lv100. That doesn't sound like much, but you can have a maximum of 255 EPs in any one stat. That's a boost of 63 points to whatever stat you're training in. However, because stat boosts are only implemented in increments of 1 stat points for even 4 EPs, having 255 in that stat is pointless. So you round down to 252 for the best results.

Now, this doesn't mean you can create some super-godly 252-EVs-in-every-stat Pokemon. Your Pokemon can only have a grand total of 510 EVs altogether in all its stats. So that means you can pick two stats to put 252 points into, and one stat to put the remaining 6 EVs into. That's not always the best solution, however. It's best to either use Smogon to determine the best EV setup for your Pokemon, Google it, or (since you're already here) ask for help from people here or on other forums.

So okay, by the sounds of what I'm saying, you'll have to kill about 510 Pokemon to get the best EVs you can. If you're a normal person, you are probably currently thinking "fuck that noise" or something to that effect. But killing Zubats or Seedots or whatever isn't the fastest way, or the most recommended. First, you should find something that gives more EVs per kill. For example, Golbat gives 2 EVs instead of 1. That's still not a lot, granted, so let's look at hold items. The Macho Brace will halve your Pokemon's Speed, but double the number of EVs it gains per kill. So while holding that Macho Brace, your Pokemon will gain 4 EVs for every Golbat it kills. Now that's faster, but there's still something left to speed it up, although it's rare - the Pokerus. Every time you battle in the wild, your Pokemon has a chance of getting Pokerus. If you go heal your Pokemon at a Pokemon Center, the nurse will tell you about it. It appears as a status effect if you look at your Pokemon's details, and it wears off after a while leaving a smiley face on your Pokemon's summary window, but it's not harmful - on the contrary, it doubles the number of EVs your Pokemon gets per kill again. So if you have a Pokemon with a Macho Brace and Pokerus, you're getting 8 EVs per Golbat kill. Damn, that's fast! And what's better, the Pokerus has a chance to spread to other Pokemon in your party (but only when it's shown as a status effect - when it's healed, as in with the smiley face, it'll still affect your Pokemon's EVs, it just won't spread).

Grimdour mentioned vitamins, so I will too - vitamins such as Carbos will boost your Pokemon's EVs by 10. They're not affected by Pokerus or Macho Braces, and they stop working once your Pokemon has over 100 EVs, but they can be nice to use.

If you want a bit more information, such as other EV-boosting items and locations on where to EV train, go here.

IVs, like Grimdour said, affect stats as well. IV stands for Individual Value. Every Pokemon, upon being caught or hatched, is assigned an IV to each of its stats. The IV can be any number between 0 and 31. When your Pokemon hits Lv100, its stats will be higher depending on how high its IV in each stat is. For example, if your Lv100 Nidoking with 300 Speed had 0 IVs, the same Nidoking would have 331 Speed if it has 31 IVs. IVs can't be changed, but they can be influenced through breeding. Every time two parent Pokemon breed and a child Pokemon is formed, the child will take one random IV from each of its parents in a random stat.

Natures affect stats as well. Every nature gives a 10% boost to one stat and a 10% drop to another. As an example, let's use the nature Timid. Timid gives a 10% boost to your Pokemon's Speed, but a 10% drop in its Attack. So this is a great ability for something like Jolteon or Alakazam, something that relies on speed and uses special attacks instead of physical attacks. Some natures (Serious, Bashful, Hardy, Docile, and Quirky) give a 10% boost in one stat, followed by a 10% drop in the same stat, thus negating both the boost and the drop. These are called neutral natures.

A good rule in determining what boost or drop each nature gives is by finding out what kinds of Poffins your Pokemon likes or dislikes. The flavours below are matched to their corresponding stat:

Spicy = Attack
Dry = Special Attack
Sour = Defense
Bitter = Special Defense
Sweet = Speed

If a Pokemon likes one of these flavours, then their nature boosts the stat corresponding to that flavour; if a Pokemon dislikes one of these flavours, then their nature drops the stat corresponding to that flavour. So an Adamant Pokemon would like Spicy foods (therefore getting a boost in Attack) but dislike Dry foods (therefore getting a drop in Special Attack). Alternatively you can just look it up on the internet. o.o

If you play on ShoddyBattle, then you get to set all this stuff - natures, EVs, and IVs - when you create your team. I really hope you don't play Shoddy because god damn, wouldn't it suck to know I just wrote all of the above for no reason?
 
alright, now I have a reference for all of this! yes, I can't get to smogon.

So, If I have a pokemon that is in a lower tier, I don't have to battle in that particular tier, right? I can still use my ampharos in the UU, I think. Although, I do understand why Ampharos is in the NeverUsed tier. IT IS SO DAMN SLOW!! (sorry for all caps there) However, we could EV train out of that, correct? so it could be a moderately fast Ampharos instead of a copmletley slow moron with good Sp. Attack (which is not a bad thing, I like Ampharos, it is just slower than molassass) *walks off with Ampharos towards that group Golbat over there, holding a macho brace, and a pokemon infected with Pokerus*

Just because I'm different, which pokemon would you suggest if I want to be able to interchange between UU and OU tiers? (dragon-type and grass-type suggestions are recommended, but not necessary)

Other than this, I would probably just google some of this information if it involves a list.

Thanks!
 
So, If I have a pokemon that is in a lower tier, I don't have to battle in that particular tier, right? I can still use my ampharos in the UU, I think.

You can, but as a general rule of thumb, it's not usually a good idea unless you have a good plan for it.

However, we could EV train out of that, correct? so it could be a moderately fast Ampharos instead of a copmletley slow moron with good Sp. Attack (which is not a bad thing, I like Ampharos, it is just slower than molassass)

Well... Looking at Ampharos's stats, it has base 55 Speed, which means that even with a +Speed nature, max EVs, and perfect 31 IVs, its Speed isn't going to get any higher than 229 at Lv100. As a frame of reference, a Pokemon with base 100 Speed with no EVs and a neutral nature (as in, not boosting or lowering Speed) and perfect 31 IVs - in other words, one that is not at all focusing on Speed - has 236 Speed. And that's without any Speed EVs. Your Ampharos will still get outrun by pretty much everything.

However, as far as Electric-types go, Ampharos has some decent defense. It's still not much to brag about, but it's not going to get killed by a stray breeze like some other Electric-types. In addition, it has access to Reflect and Light Screen to boost those defenses even further. Substitute is another option. If Ampharos comes in on something that it can scare into switching (which probably won't happen very often, admittedly), it can set up a Substitute and take potshots at opponents with Focus Blast, Thunderbolt, and a good Hidden Power type.

Overall, I'd honestly suggest getting rid of Ampharos. If you'd like, you can tell me what role you were planning on using Ampharos for, and I can give some other suggestions.

Just because I'm different, which pokemon would you suggest if I want to be able to interchange between UU and OU tiers? (dragon-type and grass-type suggestions are recommended, but not necessary)

If you want to battle UU, you'll have to drop Dragonite and Breloom. Replacement suggestions, uh, let's see...

For Breloom, Sceptile is one that pops up in my mind. It's got ridiculous Speed, and it can use some nice moves like Substitute and Leech Seed. It can act as a physical attacker, special attacker, or even both. Leaf Blade would probably be a staple of its physical moveset, and something like Leaf Storm would be its main special attack. Leafeon is similar, but the roles are sort of reversed - it's got good Attack but slightly below-average Speed. Also don't try using special attacks with it. In return, though, it has great Defense. It could use Swords Dance, Leaf Blade, Return, and X-Scissor as a moveset, which would have great type coverage in UU (but subpar coverage in OU).

There's not many Dragon-types in UU. In fact, the only one I can think of is Altaria. It can resist most of the common move types in UU, but it'll get completely outclassed in OU by things like Salamence. All its stats seem somewhat low at first save for its Special Defense, but it has access to Dragon Dance, which is a wicked move. Teach it Dragon Dance, Dragon Claw, Roost, and Heal Bell, and opponents will have a tough time taking it down (plus, Heal Bell will heal not only Altaria's status problems, but all its teammates' as well). If you want a more offensive route, try Dragon Dance, Earthquake, Outrage, and either Roost or Fire Blast. EQ and Outrage should cover most of your bases in terms of type coverage. The only things I can think of that would resist both Dragon and Ground attacks are Skarmory and Bronzong, and both of those are OU so you won't see them in UU battles.
 
mm-hmm. Well, I was mostly using ampharos for I suppose what you would call a special sweeper because of his high sp. attack stat.
 
Good way of putting it there.

If you want a UU sweeper to replace Ampharos, I have two suggestions that come to mind. Houndoom is a nice option. The ability Flash Fire gives him a boost to his own Fire-type attacks every time you switch in to a Fire attack (and makes him immune to said Fire attacks to boot). He has access to Nasty Plot to boost his already-decent Special Attack sky-high if you can't switch in on a Fire attack. He has decent STAB options in Fire Blast, Flamethrower, and Dark Pulse. If you decide to run a Choice set, Overheat is great for a hit-and-run style attack. You might have some trouble getting a good Hidden Power (Flying's the ideal type, and 70's the ideal power - it's kind of complicated to find out both of those), but there are some... admittedly rather improvised options in Shadow Ball and Toxic if you can't get a good HP type. I've used a Houndoom before, and it works pretty damn well.

The other option is Alakazam. He has incredible Speed and Special Attack, and would work well with pretty much any decent sweeping hold item. Admittedly, his defense is pathetic, which is a serious problem because of how common priority moves are in UU, but once you get away from that, Alakazam can rip through pretty much anything in UU, save for (maybe) Chansey.

If you want OU suggestions, ask.
 
in electrics, manectric is a nice choice - it has really nice type coverage with random flamethrower and overheat, and has 105 spa and speed. it can also use highly subpar crunch (and maybe quick attack_ running off 75 attack on mixed sets. hp ice and thunderbolt cover everything, with crunch to destroy special walls works quite nicely, even in OU. I use overheat as the last move with a life orb, but there are plenty of things that work there.

POST-SCRIPT: and it's defensive stats are fairly good for an electric.
ADDENDUM: I mean, not compared to ampharos, but most electrics suck defensively, even though it's a great typing in the current metagame.
 
Me likes the idea of Alakazam. I was going to have a houndoom in the first place (in place of Clefable), but, I decided to get random. hmmm... If I had to choose, it would be hard. Houndoom has more immunities, but psychic isn't exactly common....

Movesets!

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Ability: Synchornize W/ idk N:Bold
Psychic
Shadow Ball
Recover (?)
Torment

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Ability: Flash Fire W/ idk N: Bold/relaxed
Will-O-Wisp/Nasty Plot
Flamethrower
Dark Pulse
Iron Tail/ Smog/ Spite

What is thought of these things? Tell me, and you might get a yummy cookie. (okay, probably not, but it would still be nice to get feedback.)

EDIT!: something else that I've always wanted to do is a Hypno.

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Ability: Forewarn W/ Idk N:Modest
Psychic
Nasty Plot
Signal Beam
Magic Coat/ Lightscreen/ Meditate
 
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gbc097.gif
Ability: Forewarn W/ Idk N:Modest
Psychic
Nasty Plot
Signal Beam
Magic Coat/ Lightscreen/ Meditate

Hypno isn't an attacker unless you put Choice Specs on it, it's special attack simply isn't high enough to make a dent in anything otherwise.
 
don't you see nasty plot there? put life orb on any one of those. they use life orb well. but ftlyd, don't go bold on something with defense that horrible. modest or timid.

I'd think of something else to say, but I'm not in a thinking mood right now. sorry.
 
I'm lost on what ftlyd means, just so you know. Now I might be confused here, but doesn't bold raise defense?

I know Hypno is a bad option, but I tend to be known for my questionable choices.

So I just read the last two posts over, for I was at a loss as to what to say, and if I read that right, sresservoir, you said maybe I could do Hypno if I put the life orb on it? Cool. Hypnos are my buddies. Also, because of its ability, couldn't I send out Hypno first and have it be kind of a scout? Just thinking.
 
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