Sword and Shield Choice Pokéresistance

[Keldeo]

Re: Sword and Shield Choice Pokéresistance

We have to send a fourth person on this mission, qva, so to have them all be Resistance, we have to send everyone but the two Spies. Stryke + the previous team shouldn't be sent because there is definitely a Spy within that group, unless you think Panini and I are Spies together but imo that's a little silly.

I think I would support a team of me/qva/Butterfree/Stryke. It's possible Chemist is Resistance and I'm wrong about one of Butterfree/Stryke, or qva has been playing a good distancing game from Panini because she knows a 4-person mission was coming up, but...

I think the fact he's now proposing teams that contain both Butterfree and qva is suspicious and one of them is likely to be the other mole. I'm leaning it's qva

Mission 2, Ballonlea - Proposal 1 (Butterfree, qva, Chemist1422):
Accept: Keldeo, Butterfree, Stryke, qva, Panini, Chemist1422​

This makes me think Stryke is Resistance, maybe? :huh: Like, it probably wasn't going to be rejected anyway given the people on the team would have voted for it and my vote was predictable, but I don't really think Panini votes against her stated reads just for a 3-Resistance team. I also think it's a bit unlikely that it's Stryke/Panini and she did it just to get this reaction from me, because I don't think she would know that I'd have this reaction, or even notice the vote.

Panini/Chemist ~> Panini/Butterfree ~> Panini/Stryke > Panini/qva, in likelihood??

Ehhh, Chemist is kind of at the top of my Spy-list just by process of elimination. Him saying he didn't have a read on Panini so he needs to see Panini's response, then Panini responding, then Chemist posting without anything about her response (when he disagreed with her about Butterfree and qva being sent, but seemingly for mechanical reasons) was a little weird. He also originally just said he didn't have a read on Panini, which kinda implies he had some thoughts on me, but if he had any sort of lean on me he should have the opposite lean on Panini. I did like him posting about a fail this round acting as an alignment check, since it felt like he was thinking through the consequences of the results.

My original reason to Resistance-read Butterfree was not actually that great. But her floating the idea of sending three people besides herself and Panini, even as just a conjecture, felt alright, as did her accepting my clear of qva - maybe she'd fight a correct clear more as a Spy, to keep options open? I don't know what to make of Panini's like... meditation about what it would be like if Butterfree was a Spy because it didn't have to do with what Butterfree's posted in the game, which I think has been readable enough. /shrug

The above is pretty much the only thing I've got about Stryke. His posting hasn't really had an agenda or a desire to control things, I guess. I'm not sure, could swap him and Butterfree.

Panini saying the last Spy is qva and the tone of qva's response both make me continue to feel good about qva. Her saying the same team should be sent again is a bit odd given there's 4 people in this mission, but I guess it's a natural reaction to a success as either alignment.

Anyway, sorry for posting another wall, haha. I hope this gets my thoughts across. Like a bolt from the blue, it's the Opal Review...!

 

[Stryke]

Re: Sword and Shield Choice Pokéresistance

The above is pretty much the only thing I've got about Stryke. His posting hasn't really had an agenda or a desire to control things, I guess. I'm not sure, could swap him and Butterfree.

hell yeah babey im just along for the ride

For real though, I'm not exactly a mafia game expert, let alone a resistance expert, so I'm mostly going along with what you all decide, since I don't consider myself educated enough to form an opinion. Since I'm the mission leader now, I'll definitely try to analyze what you all are saying better so I can make an informed decision and post more so you can get a better read on me. But yeah, now you know why I've been somewhat mute.

 

[kyeugh]

Re: Sword and Shield Choice Pokéresistance

oh, idk why i read that it was a four person mission and just point blank went “wow, another three person mission, sweet!” thank you brain.

keldeo i’m not sure i really understand your reasoning on stryke. i agree that chemist’s noncommittal attitude on panini is a bit weird but i’m much more suspicious of “i have no idea what’s going on, tell me what to do”— that to me reads as an easy way to handwave a lack of activity (and thus a lack of posting to read into) and “i’m mostly going along with what y’all decide” could easily be a communication to his teammate to suggest a team so he can latch onto it. which, maybe that’s too on the nose, but idk, at the very least i’m getting worse vibes from it than i am from chemist, who i think has made some contribution despite his wishywashiness.

at any rate i’m on board for me/bfree/keldeo, not really sure who i like in the fourth slot but i’m leaning stryke over chemist personally. but again i don’t really understand keldeo’s reasoning on stryke at all so maybe that’ll change.

 

[Keldeo]

Re: Sword and Shield Choice Pokéresistance

keldeo i’m not sure i really understand your reasoning on stryke. i agree that chemist’s noncommittal attitude on panini is a bit weird but i’m much more suspicious of “i have no idea what’s going on, tell me what to do”— that to me reads as an easy way to handwave a lack of activity (and thus a lack of posting to read into) and “i’m mostly going along with what y’all decide” could easily be a communication to his teammate to suggest a team so he can latch onto it. which, maybe that’s too on the nose, but idk, at the very least i’m getting worse vibes from it than i am from chemist, who i think has made some contribution despite his wishywashiness.

at any rate i’m on board for me/bfree/keldeo, not really sure who i like in the fourth slot but i’m leaning stryke over chemist personally. but again i don’t really understand keldeo’s reasoning on stryke at all so maybe that’ll change.

I understand that read on his posting style. I just don't really get Panini's vote for the team if Strke is her partner. Maybe she thought it'd be accepted anyway...?

And anyway Stryke's not going to not send himself so I think the discussion on whether it should be him or Chemist is a little moot.

Why do you think Butterfree is Resistance?

--

Also, I'd be down for a phase extension, since it's almost Christmas.

 

[Phoenixsong]

Re: Sword and Shield Choice Pokéresistance

But almost Christmas means it isn't Christmas, so surely you've got plenty of—

Oh, fine. Yeah, I think giving everyone until the end of Friday or so should hopefully be reasonable? If people need more time than that, just holler.

Phase deadline extended until 11:59 PM EST on Friday, December 27th.

Happy holidays, all!

 

[Stryke]

Re: Sword and Shield Choice Pokéresistance

Ok I had a chance to digest some of this now, and I guess my behavior is kind of scummy (spy-y?), but if I were a Spy, I don't think I would wait until the very end of the second night to start posting and potentially communicate stuff to my partner. At the very least, I would have said something on D1 so that my partner wouldn't feel like they were doing all the work like its some group project in college. I know its not rock-solid evidence for my innocence, but its the best I can offer.

Anyway, some of the stuff Keldeo has been up to has been kind of dodgy to me. At the beginning of the game, he mentioned that a good strategy to follow was to take a team that has already succeeded before and add one more person to it, but now that we have a team thats succeeded, he's against it because there could be a spy in there, and even though he acknowledges the possibility that maybe he and Panini are the spies, he just kind of dismisses it and moves on. He also mentioned that I wouldn't send myself, but... why wouldn't I? Let's say I send the previous team, but I go as well. If we succeed, yay, we're that much closer to winning. If we fail, then it does bring us that closer to losing, which is bad, but its not great for me either, because now that's where all the blame will probably be cast. I guess it is kind of high-risk, high-reward, but you guys have said I've been difficult to read, so I'm willing to put my reputation on the line if it'll put you guys at ease. Like I said, I'm not some kind of seasoned mafia expert, and this definitely isn't a perfect plan or flawless reasoning, but idk, it just seems to me that a lot of Keldeo's assertions rely on the fact that he's assumed to be in the clear.

 

[Keldeo]

Re: Sword and Shield Choice Pokéresistance

At the beginning of the game, he mentioned that a good strategy to follow was to take a team that has already succeeded before and add one more person to it, but now that we have a team thats succeeded, he's against it because there could be a spy in there, and even though he acknowledges the possibility that maybe he and Panini are the spies, he just kind of dismisses it and moves on.

No, what I'm saying is you're choosing the team, and so it's not a matter of "there could be a spy in there" - I think from your point of view, there has to be a spy there.

Like, we can separate the players into
[Stryke] - if you are Resistance, you know you're Resistance
[Keldeo, Panini] - there has to be at least 1 Spy here based on the result of Mission 1
[Butterfree, qva, Chemist] - the previous team - there has to be exactly 1 Spy here, unless you believe that [Keldeo, Panini] contains both Spies

In other words, sending [Stryke, Butterfree, qva, Chemist] as the team means your viewpoint of the Spy team must be exactly [Keldeo, Panini]. So, in this situation, of course I'm not going to advocate for sending the same team again.

This could be a perspective slip but it could be me not explaining this very well, hehe.

He also mentioned that I wouldn't send myself, but... why wouldn't I?

Sorry, my wording was probably confusing - I said you wouldn't not send yourself. You're right - why wouldn't you? That's why I can't push for sending something like [Keldeo, Butterfree, qva, Chemist] with you as the Leader.

idk, it just seems to me that a lot of Keldeo's assertions rely on the fact that he's assumed to be in the clear.

Yeah, I'm not really interested in arguing from the position that assumes that I'm a Spy, because I know I'm not. At the start I was arguing both sides to make my points more persuasive to other Resistance people who don't know for sure, but at this point I think you have to be in one of the worlds: I'm Resistance, Panini's Resistance, or we are both Spies. And I've already said why I wouldn't send a Spy/Spy team on the first mission.

 

[Keldeo]

Re: Sword and Shield Choice Pokéresistance

Also...

[hide=]

[/hide]

 

[kyeugh]

Re: Sword and Shield Choice Pokéresistance

will explain more later but scummy stryke, pls put chem in the team instead

 

[Stryke]

Re: Sword and Shield Choice Pokéresistance

No, what I'm saying is you're choosing the team, and so it's not a matter of "there could be a spy in there" - I think from your point of view, there has to be a spy there.

Like, we can separate the players into
[Stryke] - if you are Resistance, you know you're Resistance
[Keldeo, Panini] - there has to be at least 1 Spy here based on the result of Mission 1
[Butterfree, qva, Chemist] - the previous team - there has to be exactly 1 Spy here, unless you believe that [Keldeo, Panini] contains both Spies

In other words, sending [Stryke, Butterfree, qva, Chemist] as the team means your viewpoint of the Spy team must be exactly [Keldeo, Panini]. So, in this situation, of course I'm not going to advocate for sending the same team again.

This could be a perspective slip but it could be me not explaining this very well, hehe.


Sorry, my wording was probably confusing - I said you wouldn't not send yourself. You're right - why wouldn't you? That's why I can't push for sending something like [Keldeo, Butterfree, qva, Chemist] with you as the Leader.


Yeah, I'm not really interested in arguing from the position that assumes that I'm a Spy, because I know I'm not. At the start I was arguing both sides to make my points more persuasive to other Resistance people who don't know for sure, but at this point I think you have to be in one of the worlds: I'm Resistance, Panini's Resistance, or we are both Spies. And I've already said why I wouldn't send a Spy/Spy team on the first mission.

Alright, that kinda clears things up for me; sorry for getting so defensive. I'm still suspect (or so I've been told), so the teams looking like it'll consist of Keldeo, Butterfree, qva, and Chemist... Any objections?

 

[Keldeo]

Re: Sword and Shield Choice Pokéresistance

Alright, that kinda clears things up for me; sorry for getting so defensive. I'm still suspect (or so I've been told), so the teams looking like it'll consist of Keldeo, Butterfree, qva, and Chemist... Any objections?

Well, for this team to work, Stryke and Panini would have to be the Spies. That's a possible world to me, but if you know you're a Resistance member, you should send yourself.

 

[Keldeo]

Re: Sword and Shield Choice Pokéresistance

Sorry for the double post. I forgot to ask -

qva, when you get a chance, why do you think Stryke is scummy, and Butterfree towny/resistancey?

 

[Phoenixsong]

Re: Sword and Shield Choice Pokéresistance

As half of the players still have yet to post, I'm going to give this another two days. Phase deadline extended until 11:59 PM EST on Sunday, December 29th.

 

[Stryke]

Re: Sword and Shield Choice Pokéresistance

Well, for this team to work, Stryke and Panini would have to be the Spies. That's a possible world to me, but if you know you're a Resistance member, you should send yourself.

Just trying to appease the masses; I figured it'd look better if I keep people happy and stay behind than if I go anyways and risk having the mission fail, potentially putting me in a worse spot before.

 

[Stryke]

Re: Sword and Shield Choice Pokéresistance

Just trying to appease the masses; I figured it'd look better if I keep people happy and stay behind than if I go anyways and risk having the mission fail, potentially putting me in a worse spot before.

And then 2 hours after posting this I realize that the flaw here is that if I don't go then I increase the odds of the mission failing anyways, because I'm depleting the number of Resistance members that could be sent and giving the Spies an edge by excluding myself, so that's cool and fun. Why am I scummy, anyways?

 

[Stryke]

Re: Sword and Shield Choice Pokéresistance

It's the day of the deadline, and there's still radio silence, so unless someone has a good argument against it, I'm gonna switch the team to me, Butterfree, Keldeo, and qva.

 

[Butterfree]

Re: Sword and Shield Choice Pokéresistance

Whoooops I kept forgetting to post

This makes me think Stryke is Resistance, maybe? Like, it probably wasn't going to be rejected anyway given the people on the team would have voted for it and my vote was predictable, but I don't really think Panini votes against her stated reads just for a 3-Resistance team. I also think it's a bit unlikely that it's Stryke/Panini and she did it just to get this reaction from me, because I don't think she would know that I'd have this reaction, or even notice the vote.

That's an interesting line of logic but I don't really buy it. Assuming Team Yell Panini (which from your perspective would have to be true), would she really make a strategic choice to go against her stated reads to approve a team, when that team is fairly obviously going to be approved regardless? If your scenario is true and the team had a spy, and Panini considered strategically whether to approve or disapprove of the team, surely the correct strategic choice from her perspective would be to vote against it - which would be sticking to her stated reads as well as giving her distancing cred if the spy then goes on to fail the mission. There's no reason for her to go out of her way to choose to vote to approve a team with a spy in it, unless there's an actual chance it might get rejected if she doesn't.

I agree that it's highly unlikely Panini was trying to get you to think this - but instead I'm just inclined to assume it's a lazy throwaway vote with not much thought put into it. It feels like she's being widely read as scum at this point, so I wouldn't be surprised if that just leaves her kind of "eh, whatever" on the game (supported by the fact she hasn't been posting). I doubt there's much to read into the choice to approve here.

Ehhh, Chemist is kind of at the top of my Spy-list just by process of elimination. Him saying he didn't have a read on Panini so he needs to see Panini's response, then Panini responding, then Chemist posting without anything about her response (when he disagreed with her about Butterfree and qva being sent, but seemingly for mechanical reasons) was a little weird. He also originally just said he didn't have a read on Panini, which kinda implies he had some thoughts on me, but if he had any sort of lean on me he should have the opposite lean on Panini.

These are all pretty interesting and valid points, I think.

Panini/Chemist in general seems a fairly plausible team, reading back; Chemist was specifically reluctant to opine on Panini at all as you say even after saying he needed to get a reaction from her, and Panini said she was most inclined to send Chemist on the basis of not being likely to be teamed with Keldeo.

There is still the world where Keldeo was the spy, but Panini fading out of the game suggests to me that she's prooobably a spy? Like, if she were Resistance she could still make useful contributions even if people don't really trust her, and there's not really a reason to get so much less enthusiastic about the game.

So, hmmm, yeah, I thiiiink I'm on board with Stryke/me/Keldeo/qva, but I would really like to hear from qva about why she thinks Stryke is scummy. (To me he seems confused but well-intentioned, but maybe there's something I didn't pick up on.)

 

[Phoenixsong]

Re: Sword and Shield Choice Pokéresistance

I think I'm going to give this one more day just in case, as well as a few prods (phase deadline extended until 11:59 PM EST on Monday, December 30th); after that, folks are just gonna have to make their opinions known through votes.

 

[Keldeo]

Re: Sword and Shield Choice Pokéresistance

Okay, Butterfree, I see your reasoning about Stryke and why Panini might still reject if there was a Spy on the team. I guess I'm just not really sure why Panini would vote Accept, either way. I feel like that might be a more likely "eh, whatever" vote if her partner is on the team anyway?

It's not very strong, I guess, and probably less strong than Stryke wanting to send the team that wouldn't include either himself or Panini. That just seems weird to me if Panini and him is the team.

There is still the world where Keldeo was the spy, but Panini fading out of the game suggests to me that she's prooobably a spy? Like, if she were Resistance she could still make useful contributions even if people don't really trust her, and there's not really a reason to get so much less enthusiastic about the game.

I honestly think Panini is probably just busy / tired from real life or out-of-game stuff. I think she'd be here if she could.

 

[Panini]

Re: Sword and Shield Choice Pokéresistance

Hey, sorry about the absence!

I honestly think Panini is probably just busy / tired from real life or out-of-game stuff. I think she'd be here if she could.

This is pretty much accurate, I've just been getting kind of busy and burnt out from holiday stuff so I kinda forgot about this. I'll try to keep on top of it going forward!

Stryke having control of the next mission is kind of dubious - the simple logic kind of suggests that maybe him being the only one not to go on a mission + the previous mission succeeding increases the chances he's a spy. I'm definitely not approving if Keldeo is on that team since I know he's a spy and since 4 people means every resistance member has to be in it to succeed, I'm also not approving unless I'm in it because you're otherwise guaranteed to have a spy in one of the slots.

As for why I voted positive even though I had said I didn't want qva or Bfree on the mission - I thought about it during the voting phase and Chem's suggestion that it would work like a check for the last slot seemed like a good idea. It's not like I was objecting due to hard information and seeing the outcome seemed more important than like. Personal pref reads at that stage? Maybe that's a weak argument but in truth I didn't think about it that much and kind of thought it wouldn't matter anyway since it seemed like the majority of people didn't really have a reason to object there.