HG/SS What? Slow Pokemon?

[Chief Zackrai]

So now an Aggron with Head Smash, Iron Head, Superpower, and Earthquake? Or maybe Thunderpunch in there somewhere? This, Earthquake, and Superpower can take down Empoleon rather efficiently, I would think.

 

[1. Luftballon]

Give it Hidden Power Ice or Grass, then. Hidden Power Ice would be generally more usable since it hits Flygon that otherwise sponges anything Ampharos throws at it. As I said, Thunder Wave goes against what a Trick Room team should be doing; being slower.

power gem is still relatively unnecessary. it has loads and loads of support moves, though. probably could use one of those.

Sorry, didn't quite understand that. Sure you only need one Pokémon to get Trick Room up, but what happens when that Pokémon faints? The team is ruined. Keeping the Trick Roomers alive is key to the team working. As you say, Water Spout and Eruption need to come in almost for free. For that reason, you can't have the Trick Room users sharing the same weaknesses as the sweepers, else you'll never get them.

most TR sweepers are fairly bulky anyway, with speed as their major drawback. eruption/water spout are ruined, but most others can still run decently even without trick room.

But he wouldn't be using Water/Ice, he'd be using Water/Ice/Grass, which has far more coverage than Water/Grass/Poison. Namely, it hits Dragons, but also gives you a better time against Flying types too.

I like to have my perfect coverage before adding on extra types, but yeah, water/ice/grass is decent coverage. (why you don't just go water/ice/ground or electric or fighting with a hidden power is an entirely different matter.)

Full Power Water Spout vs. Standard SubPetaya Empoleon - 37% - 43.8%
This is without any boosts from items. Therefore, if Octillery can manage to not do minimum damage to on both hits (one on the switch in and one on the next turn when it outspeeds), Empoleon will not be able to set up a substitute.

Charge Beam is 50 power whereas STAB max power Water Spout is 225. Even against Empoleon, Water Spout is going to do more. (50x2 = 100, 225/2 = 112.5)

but remember to factor in charge beam's 70% spa raise, although it gives free switchins on a choice set. also water spout damage is invariant. it's maximum every single time.

Oh, and you might want to consider a Physical sweeper instead of Camerupt. Aggron can work wonders due to Head Smash having no recoil on Aggron. Rampardos can work too but it can NEVER switch in and lacks the ability to use Head Smash.

my personal favorite TR physical sweeper is machamp, but YMMV.

 

[blazheirio889]

Personally, I love Marowak as a TR sweeper. With Thick Club, EVs in attack, and an Adamant nature, it achieves the highest attack in the entire game - it surpasses even that of Attack Deoxys. You may want to run a moveset of Stone Edge, Earthquake, Fire Punch, and Double-Edge (due to Rock Head), but you could drop an attack for Swords Dance if you want further boosting (not sure if it's even needed, though!).

 

[Chief Zackrai]

O.O

Must have... That's so awesome!

 

[Mustardear]

Personally, I love Marowak as a TR sweeper. With Thick Club, EVs in attack, and an Adamant nature, it achieves the highest attack in the entire game - it surpasses even that of Attack Deoxys. You may want to run a moveset of Stone Edge, Earthquake, Fire Punch, and Double-Edge (due to Rock Head), but you could drop an attack for Swords Dance if you want further boosting (not sure if it's even needed, though!).

I knew I was missing something...

 

[Chief Zackrai]

... I kinda want to get rid of Octillery, because it dies too quickly against things that it shouldn't, and Water Spout is amazing, but I'm not too keen on its power depending entirely upon its current HP.

I was thinking maybe...

W/ Expert Belt N: Quiet Ability: Chlorophyll
Power Whip
Sludge Bomb
Aerial Ace (for some reason it can learn this...)
Sunny Day

so yeah. It uses Power Whip and Sludge Bomb to rip through just about anything, but it knows Aerial Ace for the stray Machamp, which is why it also has the Expert Belt. Sunny day is for after my Trick Roomers are gone, so Chlorophyll works its magic. (mostly being hopeful there. the movepool is shallow) Would be EV trained in HP and SP. Attack.

or,

W/ ??? N: Quiet Ability: Chlorophyll
Sludge Bomb
Trick Room
Psychic
Energy Ball

Energy Ball over Leaf Storm because of the Lowering of the Sp. Attack stat issue, and another Trick Room pokemon. Again with Sludge Bomb, and Psychic for the STAB. Would be EV trained in HP and Sp. Attack.

 

[1. Luftballon]

at a glance, aerial ace is no good for the passing machamp, because no guard power whip always deals more damage than aerial ace.

 

[Chief Zackrai]

mmm. I was unaware of that... But still, the movepool is shallow, so suggestions.

 

[Mustardear]

It doesn't have many options... Sleep Powder can be good for support when Trick Room runs out; Focus Blast is sort of borderline due to its shaky accuracy. Earthquake could work, although I'm not sure how useful it would be. Eggy looks good I think but also suffers from lack of movepool.