2001/9/11 Tribute

[Teh Ebil Snorlax]

Re: It's THAT thread.

As others have already said, moments of silence and other such are a silly thing to do.

When a group of terrorists hijacked four planes, what did they want to do with them? They wanted to attack the heart of America, they wanted to attack its spirit.

They struck the Twin Towers, the World Trade Center, a shining symbol of America's proud tradition of capitalism.
They struck the Pentagon, the lock and key of America's sense of security.

When they committed these vile acts, when they murdered all those people, they weren't attacking people, they were attacking the American spirit and what America stands for.

When the towers came down, what did everyone and their grandmother say?

"We won't let this change us. If we do that, the terrorists will win."

Well, unfortunately for you, America, the terrorists have won.

You have allowed paranoia, Islamophobia and racism to flourish since 9/11. You haven't just let the fire burn; you've fanned the flames.

So have your moment of silence, America. You've already let them change you. Why shouldn't you let them silence you too?

Also;

the IRA (a group of Irish extremists who want reclaim Northern Ireland)

A couple of things here;

1) There are many IRAs, not just one.
2) Not all of the IRAs have the same goal.
3) That bombing you speak of was committed by Fatah.

 

[Autumn]

"I have gay friends so I can't be a homophobe"

"I have black friends so I can't be racist"

"I have female friends so I can't be sexist"

Ketsu was referring to your stance in the Ground Zero Mosque topic.

 

[Pwnemon]

Wait a sec, so now to respect one group I have to disrespect another?

This will be very tough. And you all disrespect relatives of people who died in 9/11.

 

[Autumn]

And you all disrespect relatives of people who died in 9/11.

If I had a relative who died in 9/11 I suspect they'd want me to move on instead of mourning for them at the same time every year

 

[Pwnemon]

If I had a relative who died in 9/11 I suspect they'd want me to move on instead of mourning for them at the same time every year

Well you all supported the muslims building the mosque.

I'll put it a different way. Which do you "disrespect," Isrealis or Palestinians?

 

[Teh Ebil Snorlax]

And you all disrespect relatives of people who died in 9/11.

At 8:42 EST on the 11th of September this year (i.e. yesterday), I was rolled up in a blanket yelling "I AM A CATERPILLAR IN A COCCOON", laughing, hugging and rolling around on my bed with my girlfriend.

I was just getting on with my day. When the terrorists attacked the Twin Towers and the Pentagon, they wanted it to change the world. If you give them that moment of silence, they've succeeded; terror has won and America has lost. Because if you concede a single inch, the world will take a mile.

I respect those who died by not letting what happened to them change the way I act.

EDIT:

Well you all supported the muslims building the mosque.

I'll put it a different way. Which do you "disrespect," Isrealis or Palestinians?

Why must you disrespect only one? Why can't you disrespect both or neither?

Also, if you are going to try and make an analogy out of this you will fail. Just warning you.

 

[Autumn]

Well you all supported the muslims building the mosque.

yeah! because there's no real reason not to. it's possible to respect muslims ~and~ 9/11 victims you know. because -GUESS WHAT- there were almost inevitably 9/11 VICTIMS THAT WERE MUSLIMS GASP.

 

[Teh Ebil Snorlax]

"I have gay friends so I can't be a homophobe"

"I have black friends so I can't be racist"

"I have female friends so I can't be sexist"

Ketsu was referring to your stance in the Ground Zero Mosque topic.

"I have human friends, so I can't be a misanthrope."

 

[Pwnemon]

That was exactly my point, TES. It's a stupid argument to say that because I oppose the mosque that I disrespect muslims. Just because I take one side in a conflict does not mean I hate the other.

 

[goldenquagsire]

Well you all supported the muslims building the mosque.

I'll put it a different way. Which do you "disrespect," Isrealis or Palestinians?

both sides are acting like idiots. Palestinians blowing themselves up and firing rockets at Israel is endearing nobody to their cause, but Israelis are clearly making a mockery of human rights. and let's not forget the blame which the US and the UK share for their complicity with Israel. if anything, the UN are probably most at fault for setting up a Jewish state in an area they had no right to occupy, but that's history and we can't do shit about it.

but that isn't relevant to the thread, so yeah.

 

[Pwnemon]

Actually the UK owned Palestine and it was never a free state.

So yeah they sure as heck had a right to set up Israel.

Back to topic.

 

[Autumn]

That was exactly my point, TES. It's a stupid argument to say that because I oppose the mosque that I disrespect muslims. Just because I take one side in a conflict does not mean I hate the other.

I think TES was agreeing with me...

also to the last part of your statement. do you or do you not want muslims to be allowed to worship freely in nyc.

 

[Tarvos]

I don't disrespect neither Israelis nor Palestinians. Civilians are civilians. It goes on a case by case basis.

I do have to mention that I know more Israelis and Jews than I do Muslims, though. That's probably rooted in the fact I am with a Jewish lady.

However, the Muslim community in NY could obviously have realised that putting a mosque near Ground Zero was bound to attract hate mongering from idiot conservative Tea Partiers?

 

[Teh Ebil Snorlax]

That was exactly my point, TES. It's a stupid argument to say that because I oppose the mosque that I disrespect muslims. Just because I take one side in a conflict does not mean I hate the other.

I wasn't agreeing with you in any way. You do disrespect Muslims by opposing the mosque. You treat all Muslims as terrorists because some terrorists were Muslims.

And no one ever said that you hated Muslims because you opposed the mosque. It was said that you disrespect the 9/11 dead by disrespecting Muslims because you have allowed the actions of a few small, weak men change you.

And all this is a distraction from the actual argument. Stop trying to sidetrack us with meaningless disputes in order to avoid actually answering our points.

EDIT:

Actually the UK owned Palestine and it was never a free state.

So yeah they sure as heck had a right to set up Israel.

Back to topic.

No, the UK occupied Palestine, a nation which only precedes the formation of the United Kingdom by a few thousand years.

Also, you are implicitly approving of colonialism, external displacement of native populations and the denial of national sovereignty.

So yeah.

I think TES was agreeing with me...

Well I sure as fuck wasn't agreeing with Pwnemon.

 

[Tarvos]

Besides the fact that not all Muslims are terrorists, I do actually think Muslim fundamentalism is a threat to the sovereignty of Western Europe. I'm thinking of the Sharia bullshit, separate courts for Muslims in the UK etc...

But I think Christian fundamentalism is a de facto threat to the US sovereignty.

I think the problem lies with religion and gullibility, and de facto with those who want to impose their incuriosity on other people.

 

[Pwnemon]

You know what I give up.

I can't even make a simple thread to respect the dead without getting FLAMED for it.

 

[Blastoise Fortooate]

there were almost inevitably 9/11 VICTIMS THAT WERE MUSLIMS GASP.

*brain breaks*

seriously?!?

I sat up in my chair earlier and said to my parents something like, "It's been nine years since 9/11!" because I was honestly surprised, considering how there has been some 'Koran Burning' near my state.

ALSO

nobody is flaming you, Pwnemon

 

[Teh Ebil Snorlax]

You know what I give up.

I can't even make a simple thread to respect the dead without getting FLAMED for it.

Fuck you all.

You made in the debating forum. What were you expecting? Consensus?

 

[Autumn]

*brain breaks*

seriously?!?

YES SERIOUSLY I MEAN IT SURPRISED ME TOO BUT

 

[Flora]

SO since we brought up Muslims here, I might as well mention something I saw:

You guys all know about that idiot pastor who wanted to burn the Quran, right? Well, I saw an editorial in a newspaper about it that said something along the lines of "this wouldn't be happening if moderate Muslims would apologize."

I hope to God that's a typo, because why the hell do moderate Muslims need to apologize for something they didn't do?