Abortion

[Cap'n Sofa]

Bold is mine, too lazy to split this into multiple quotes.

I personally am against abortion in its entirety. Truth be told, if you don't want a baby, don't have sex. It's a very simple solution.

A lot of the time, sex ed is low-quality and people don't really learn about the many dangers. Also, even condoms can break, though it's rare.

As for rape cases which everyone brings up when this topic is brought up, if I remember correctly, there's only like a few days per month a women can get pregnant. So figure those chances in with the relatively low amount of rapes, and there's very few children that would be produced from it.

That's AT LEAST 50 children per year in the States alone, actually. AT LEAST. Really quite likely to be more than a hundred. I did the math. Which is relatively small, yes, but I'd say it's too big to justify.

I see no reason why they can't be put for adoption. People try to argue then "oh the child will have a sucky life." There's probably more non-adopted children with a sucky life than adopted ones.

Which still doesn't make it okay to give them terrible lives. A terrible life is one in which you rarely know happiness. For those of us who don't believe in the afterlife, that means that one will practically never be happy. I mean, certainly some adopted children end up happy. I know from experience. But it can really fuck somebody up to know that their parents got rid of them.

AND, if you take into account the fact that carrying a baby and giving birth to it is just hell, AND that the person doesn't even get anything out of it and is just giving it up to some other people who may or may not even be good parents, you might realize why many would rather just abort.

 

[opaltiger]

Also:

Okay umm, to the first paragraph here, even when using both a condom and the pill there is still a chance to get pregnant. Now if you do get pregnant, even during safe sex, your just going to say opps? That is like saying while I didn't mean to do whatever I just did, so I am just going to toss it aside.

I happen to believe that if you take reasonable precautions to prevent something from happening - and I assure you, the combination of condom and pill would reduce the chances of pregnancy to well under 1% - then, yes, you are well within your rights to deal with it as you please if it happens anyway.

EDIT: Zoltea, I have a question for you. How do you think rape happens? I mean, what do you think a typical scenario in which a woman is raped might look like?

 

[Rose]

Also:



I happen to believe that if you take reasonable precautions to prevent something from happening - and I assure you, the combination of condom and pill would reduce the chances of pregnancy to well under 1% - then, yes, you are well within your rights to deal with it as you please if it happens anyway.

Then I hope you don't want kids, because after each abortion the probability of having one goes down. After a few abortions you can no longer have a child, you know if you just don't want kids then get your tubes tied. After a while it probably just wont happen, and if it does you are going to have difficulty with the birthing, and the baby may have problem developing. I am just so glad you think think something is just so disposable. You know you took all the precautions, so kudos to you, and I respect those that do, because you know what I would probably do the same, but after a pregnancy scare I know I couldn't get an abortion, and you know the funny thing, this pregnancy scare was the result of date rape. I've also been through all the symptoms due to a tumor, one that grew to 13 pounds, and was pressing on all my internal organs. And when I say I had all the symptoms I mean I went into the Dr's office and for the longest time they insisted I was pregnant. I know others can't handle it, which is why I am pro-choice, but you know doesn't stop me from losing some respect for the ones that treat it like a reset button.

 

[Zoltea]

Also:



I happen to believe that if you take reasonable precautions to prevent something from happening - and I assure you, the combination of condom and pill would reduce the chances of pregnancy to well under 1% - then, yes, you are well within your rights to deal with it as you please if it happens anyway.

EDIT: Zoltea, I have a question for you. How do you think rape happens? I mean, what do you think a typical scenario in which a woman is raped might look like?

Incredibly traumatic, having a baby or not isn't going to change the trauma. Furthermore if the women does end up finding out she's pregnant, she'll still get the trauma from the abortion too. Now then, you could of course take measures if possible within the next 24-48 hours to insure the pregnancy doesn't occur. I'm rather sure medication would be more cost-efficient in this case.

 

[s k]

Here is my stance on abortion:

Sex is for married people. People should get married until they have enough money saved up and a decent job to support themselves. If they can support a child and wish to have a child, they should produce a child. They should not have sex unless they wish to have a child. Rape doesn't exist due to the body's anti-rape muscles. Unmarried people who have sex need to stop and ask God for forgiveness of their sins. Abortion should not exist. A doctor who performs an abortion can never be forgiven. Abortion is the result of sin and is itself a sin done by all parties involved. Married people who decide to abort their child are horrible people who should have know not to have sex at all in the first place.

 

[Autumn]

Rape doesn't exist due to the body's anti-rape muscles.

WHAT

How can you even say something like that?

 

[Zoltea]

Here is my stance on abortion:

Sex is for married people. People should get married until they have enough money saved up and a decent job to support themselves. If they can support a child and wish to have a child, they should produce a child. They should not have sex unless they wish to have a child. Rape doesn't exist due to the body's anti-rape muscles. Unmarried people who have sex need to stop and ask God for forgiveness of their sins. Abortion should not exist. A doctor who performs an abortion can never be forgiven. Abortion is the result of sin and is itself a sin done by all parties involved. Married people who decide to abort their child are horrible people who should have know not to have sex at all in the first place.

Wrong on the bolded part. The Bible clearly states forgiveness is available to all.

 

[Rose]

Rape doesn't exist due to the body's anti-rape muscles.

You skipped anatomy class didn't you?

 

[Teh Ebil Snorlax]

For the record, I know several rape victims and I find the way Zoltea is trivialising rape to be extremely insulting to them and to the pain and trauma that they went through and are still going through years later.

EDIT: Guys, stop feeding the troll.

Also, Zoltea, being forced to carry the baby does increase the trauma. It's bad enough that this woman has had her body violated and invaded by this man, but then she is forced to have that violation to continue for nine months? You clearly have not had to deal with the consequences of rape, and you should be very thankful that you haven't, but please don't talk bullshit to those of us who have.

 

[opaltiger]

Incredibly traumatic, having a baby or not isn't going to change the trauma. Furthermore if the women does end up finding out she's pregnant, she'll still get the trauma from the abortion too. Now then, you could of course take measures if possible within the next 24-48 hours to insure the pregnancy doesn't occur. I'm rather sure medication would be more cost-efficient in this case.

That's not what I asked. I want to know how you think the majority of rapes actually happen.

EDIT: wow you guys are really bad at spotting trolls

 

[ultraviolet]

Rape doesn't exist due to the body's anti-rape muscles.

what, and women who cry rape are doing it for the attention, are they? do not post unless you know what they hell you're talking about.

Then I hope you don't want kids, because after each abortion the probability of having one goes down. After a few abortions you can no longer have a child, you know if you just don't want kids then get your tubes tied.

source? because scarleteen says otherwise, and I'm pretty sure I've heard that disproven. EDIT: oh, here it is, prochoice disagrees too.
also: that page has some excellent sources about abortion etc, everyone should have a look. Scarleteen is great.

 

[Zoltea]

That's not what I asked. I want to know how you think the majority of rapes actually happen.

I wouldn't be able to describe much on the assaulting party. It is basically forced sex, the victim is either knocked out, beaten senseless, or murdered.

I do not trivialize the trauma, I am aware of how serious trauma is. I suppose the question is whether pregnancy or abortion causes more trauma.

 

[Teh Ebil Snorlax]

Forced pregnancy is more traumatic to those who seek an abortion than abortion. /discussion

 

[opaltiger]

I wouldn't be able to describe much on the assaulting party. It is basically forced sex, the victim is either knocked out, beaten senseless, or murdered.

Aha, I think we have come to the heart of the matter. This is what I call the "dark alley" view of rape, i.e. women walks down dark alley, is assaulted by stranger. In fact, very very few rapes actually happen like that. The vast majority are committed by someone close to the victim, often in the victim's own home.

Tell me, can a husband rape his wife?

 

[Dinru]

anti-rape muscles

You haven't been here very long, have you?

Might I ask, what exactly is an "anti-rape muscle"? And what do you think of people who do claim to have been raped?

 

[Rose]

[/I]source? because scarleteen says otherwise, and I'm pretty sure I've heard that disproven. EDIT: oh, here it is, prochoice disagrees too.
also: that page has some excellent sources about abortion etc, everyone should have a look. Scarleteen is great.

My sources would be this,this,oh and this. Risks aren't normal really, but they are there. Any time you are putting chemicals into our body it is possible to cause damage.

 

[Zoltea]

Aha, I think we have come to the heart of the matter. This is what I call the "dark alley" view of rape, i.e. women walks down dark alley, is assaulted by stranger. In fact, very very few rapes actually happen like that. The vast majority are committed by someone close to the victim, often in the victim's own home.

Tell me, can a husband rape his wife?

Anyone can rape anyone. It is still forced sex.
As well, so long as the victim isn't kidnapped as well, I'm sure they could quickly manage to get medication to prevent pregnancy from occurring.

Just be sure to not misunderstand me, I am very much aware of the seriousness of rape and the trauma surrounded by it. Trauma isn't a matter of comfort either as it can lead to ptsd.

On a different topic:
Casual sex is more or less a comfort, and before indulging in comforts, consequences should be considered first. Most other comforts with bad consequences don't have a magical bail out button, so why is this comfort so much more special?

 

[opaltiger]

Anyone can rape anyone. It is still forced sex.

Oh good! I'm glad you realise that. I'd appreciate it if you now also realised that you emphatically are not aware of the seriousness of rape, if you honestly believe what you've been saying throughout this thread.

On a different topic:
Casual sex is more or less a comfort, and before indulging in comforts, consequences should be considered first. Most other comforts with bad consequences don't have a magical bail out button, so why is this comfort so much more special?

Please stop characterising abortion as a "magical bail out button". It isn't.

But, to answer your question: ... because it does have an alternative to those bad consequences?

Basically you want to ban abortion in order to punish people who have sex. I cannot fathom any other explanation from your posts. If this is correct: fuck off.

 

[Autumn]

Casual sex is more or less a comfort, and before indulging in comforts, consequences should be considered first. Most other comforts with bad consequences don't have a magical bail out button, so why is this comfort so much more special?

Because it can be completely and utterly life-changing, unlike most other comforts?

eta: post-ninja'd

 

[Rose]

Because it can be completely and utterly life-changing, unlike most other comforts?

Is sex really the most emotional thing you can think to do with someone?