Blank Canvas Mafia Game Thread

[Eifie]

@missingno? @xrunner48 can we expect thoughts and votes for you today? iirc it was the two of you who said that d2 was when you'd start doing analysis proper.

(no rush, of course, esp missingno I know you're not here today)

Probably, I think that yesterday's votes and the night murder could help in some decisions.

This time, I think I'll need to look into things a bit closer before reaching a decision on voting.

looking forward to it! take your time

 

[Keldeo]

I got mooed at overnight. I also encountered some cows in real life. You really have to see it to belieef it.

@Keldeo so, I'm curious why you refused to join me on the mewt vote yesterday when you seemingly had much more reason to vote her than I did.

I don't remember when exactly in the day you voted her, but earlier in the day I wanted to keep more votes on Mawile to see about reactions to that train, although obviously I did not end up doing the right thing with this information. Later on, when kyeugh wasn't showing up / after kyeugh had said she wouldn't be able to play eod, I did not want to deny mewt the chance to play together with kyeugh when it seems like she had been really looking forward to that. (Not to single out kyeugh among the folks who haven't recently played on here but ykwim.) There was another thing that I was going back and forth on but don't really want to say right now.

idk what you mean by much more reason, I definitely didn't think I felt as strongly about mewt as you did?

 

[Keldeo]

Vote: Dodge

My heifert* will be nonexistent for about the 12 hours before EOD, sorry in advance. (Translator's note: it's a cow pun on "effort" that it did take me 10 minutes to come up with.)

 

[Eifie]

Vote: Dodge

My heifert* will be nonexistent for about the 12 hours before EOD, sorry in advance. (Translator's note: it's a cow pun on "effort" that it did take me 10 minutes to come up with.)

definitely thought this was some sort of pun about my name

 

[Eifie]

I got mooed at overnight. I also encountered some cows in real life. You really have to see it to belieef it.

@Keldeo so, I'm curious why you refused to join me on the mewt vote yesterday when you seemingly had much more reason to vote her than I did.

I don't remember when exactly in the day you voted her, but earlier in the day I wanted to keep more votes on Mawile to see about reactions to that train, although obviously I did not end up doing the right thing with this information. Later on, when kyeugh wasn't showing up / after kyeugh had said she wouldn't be able to play eod, I did not want to deny mewt the chance to play together with kyeugh when it seems like she had been really looking forward to that. (Not to single out kyeugh among the folks who haven't recently played on here but ykwim.) There was another thing that I was going back and forth on but don't really want to say right now.

idk what you mean by much more reason, I definitely didn't think I felt as strongly about mewt as you did?

the only reason I had for my vote was her reasoning behind the Dodge vote, while you listed several more reasons about her play this game in general. and you listed them multiple times even when EoD was approaching so it wasn't like you just changed your mind about those reasons. and it felt kind of like you were egging me on a bit (maybe strong wording, but yk) and yet you never voted her yourself. and now we know she was town and I am feeling a bit like you knew that already and didn't want to be associated with a mis-elim on a prominent player.

 

[Eifie]

I am always mooing at you overnight. btw.

 

[kyeugh]

what did you think of the eod wagons?

i don’t know. lol!!!

i feel like i don’t understand anyone’s reasoning on the bfree wagon. mewt jumped on there strategically, i think? i didn’t get the impression she particularly scumread bfree. i don’t really understand mf’s logic on it. it seems like she initially voted there because she missed a post in bfree’s iso and thought its absence was sus, and then jumped back on because ????. am i missing something?

the mawile wagon … well, i think my brain is too small to suspect you right now, eifie, and i thought free’s explanation for her vote there made decent enough sense (although she usually does…). i think i share your feelings on keldeo right now. i am raising an eyebrow at dodge. i think his justification for his suspicion of mawile is baffling, and their read list just feels very, like, inoffensively constructed (maybe intentionally so) but the explanations of the reads seem vague and like they could be post-hoc?? i am hesitant to lean too hard on a read for dodge because i think i could easily be sheeping suspicion here, particularly as i’m given to do that on people whose play styles i don’t exactly understand (in ways that aren’t always AI).

i really feel there could be a wolf in the abstain voters. if the mawile wagon was mostly town-driven, i think it could make sense for wolves (especially new players) to just sit back and park somewhere that feels unremarkable.

tfw mewtini and the two people who have associations with mewtini are all on the same wagon

i’m curious how you think this looks for mf now with the hindsight that everyone else on the wagon was v.

Pls i am so excited to play tcodfia and i finally randed town i will be devastated if i die d1

idk if it’s worthwhile to speculate around the choice of kill, but i’m having a hard time getting my head around mewt going down. she had enough suspicion on her that it doesn’t feel like an obvious target … and, i have no clue if this is bad meta, but the kill made me a bit personally sad because of how pogged out mewt was to be in this game, so it kind of makes me wonder if the mafia might be composed of newer folks who didn’t pick up on that. is that a weird thought?

 

[kyeugh]

it kind of makes me wonder if the mafia might be composed of newer folks

* partly composed.

 

[Keldeo]

I got mooed at overnight. I also encountered some cows in real life. You really have to see it to belieef it.

@Keldeo so, I'm curious why you refused to join me on the mewt vote yesterday when you seemingly had much more reason to vote her than I did.

I don't remember when exactly in the day you voted her, but earlier in the day I wanted to keep more votes on Mawile to see about reactions to that train, although obviously I did not end up doing the right thing with this information. Later on, when kyeugh wasn't showing up / after kyeugh had said she wouldn't be able to play eod, I did not want to deny mewt the chance to play together with kyeugh when it seems like she had been really looking forward to that. (Not to single out kyeugh among the folks who haven't recently played on here but ykwim.) There was another thing that I was going back and forth on but don't really want to say right now.

idk what you mean by much more reason, I definitely didn't think I felt as strongly about mewt as you did?

the only reason I had for my vote was her reasoning behind the Dodge vote, while you listed several more reasons about her play this game in general. and you listed them multiple times even when EoD was approaching so it wasn't like you just changed your mind about those reasons. and it felt kind of like you were egging me on a bit (maybe strong wording, but yk) and yet you never voted her yourself. and now we know she was town and I am feeling a bit like you knew that already and didn't want to be associated with a mis-elim on a prominent player.

I mean, no? The stronger reason was that she had made reads I thought had thin reasons and stuck with them, and I think I said that could have come from town who had limited time/material to use to get into the game (what are we doing but forcing reads right now man; she said also that she hadn't reread the game.) The lighter reason was that some of her posts had read as piggybacking on other people's suspicions. If I can be honest now that we know you were wrong, the Dodge thing was more like, okay Eifie really seems to believe in this, I think Eifie is town, and Eifie is generally better at making reads than me.

 

[Eifie]

what did you think of the eod wagons?

i don’t know. lol!!!

i feel like i don’t understand anyone’s reasoning on the bfree wagon. mewt jumped on there strategically, i think? i didn’t get the impression she particularly scumread bfree. i don’t really understand mf’s logic on it. it seems like she initially voted there because she missed a post in bfree’s iso and thought its absence was sus, and then jumped back on because ????. am i missing something?

the mawile wagon … well, i think my brain is too small to suspect you right now, eifie, and i thought free’s explanation for her vote there made decent enough sense (although she usually does…). i think i share your feelings on keldeo right now. i am raising an eyebrow at dodge. i think his justification for his suspicion of mawile is baffling, and their read list just feels very, like, inoffensively constructed (maybe intentionally so) but the explanations of the reads seem vague and like they could be post-hoc?? i am hesitant to lean too hard on a read for dodge because i think i could easily be sheeping suspicion here, particularly as i’m given to do that on people whose play styles i don’t exactly understand (in ways that aren’t always AI).

i really feel there could be a wolf in the abstain voters. if the mawile wagon was mostly town-driven, i think it could make sense for wolves (especially new players) to just sit back and park somewhere that feels unremarkable.

honestly I'm not really sure either and I kind of glazed over the posts where it happened because they were while I was out of thread. I wanna see what MF thinks today.

wanna join me on Dodge and see if anything happens? I should... maybe go count and see if I should be worried about early hammer. it seems like it should be ok rn.

I agree about there being at least one wolf off the main wagons (this includes possibly Ever (my townread there has cooled) on ver vanity wagon). I think at least some of the wolves were probably trying to stay away from the action and avoid having attention put on them.

tfw mewtini and the two people who have associations with mewtini are all on the same wagon

i’m curious how you think this looks for mf now with the hindsight that everyone else on the wagon was v.

this is so funny because i was actually thinking about this like 5 minutes before i opened my computer and i was like "i'm pretty sure trying to make a conclusion off of that now is bad stats". so in an effort to avoid logical fallacy I am trying to keep an open mind and see what we hear from MF today lol...

Pls i am so excited to play tcodfia and i finally randed town i will be devastated if i die d1

idk if it’s worthwhile to speculate around the choice of kill, but i’m having a hard time getting my head around mewt going down. she had enough suspicion on her that it doesn’t feel like an obvious target … and, i have no clue if this is bad meta, but the kill made me a bit personally sad because of how pogged out mewt was to be in this game, so it kind of makes me wonder if the mafia might be composed of newer folks who didn’t pick up on that. is that a weird thought?

any chance it's because of her suspicion on Dodge?

 

[Eifie]

I got mooed at overnight. I also encountered some cows in real life. You really have to see it to belieef it.

@Keldeo so, I'm curious why you refused to join me on the mewt vote yesterday when you seemingly had much more reason to vote her than I did.

I don't remember when exactly in the day you voted her, but earlier in the day I wanted to keep more votes on Mawile to see about reactions to that train, although obviously I did not end up doing the right thing with this information. Later on, when kyeugh wasn't showing up / after kyeugh had said she wouldn't be able to play eod, I did not want to deny mewt the chance to play together with kyeugh when it seems like she had been really looking forward to that. (Not to single out kyeugh among the folks who haven't recently played on here but ykwim.) There was another thing that I was going back and forth on but don't really want to say right now.

idk what you mean by much more reason, I definitely didn't think I felt as strongly about mewt as you did?

the only reason I had for my vote was her reasoning behind the Dodge vote, while you listed several more reasons about her play this game in general. and you listed them multiple times even when EoD was approaching so it wasn't like you just changed your mind about those reasons. and it felt kind of like you were egging me on a bit (maybe strong wording, but yk) and yet you never voted her yourself. and now we know she was town and I am feeling a bit like you knew that already and didn't want to be associated with a mis-elim on a prominent player.

I mean, no? The stronger reason was that she had made reads I thought had thin reasons and stuck with them, and I think I said that could have come from town who had limited time/material to use to get into the game (what are we doing but forcing reads right now man; she said also that she hadn't reread the game.) The lighter reason was that some of her posts had read as piggybacking on other people's suspicions. If I can be honest now that we know you were wrong, the Dodge thing was more like, okay Eifie really seems to believe in this, I think Eifie is town, and Eifie is generally better at making reads than me.

but that didn't apply to mewtini despite you having your own other reasons to suspect her too?

 

[Dodge]

Oh no! RIP mewtini, she seemed so happy to be here...
Also RIP Mawile, I lowkey wish I knew who he was gonna target that was "Either the best or worst mafia play ever"

i am raising an eyebrow at dodge. i think his justification for his suspicion of mawile is baffling, and their read list just feels very, like, inoffensively constructed (maybe intentionally so) but the explanations of the reads seem vague and like they could be post-hoc?? i am hesitant to lean too hard on a read for dodge because i think i could easily be sheeping suspicion here, particularly as i’m given to do that on people whose play styles i don’t exactly understand (in ways that aren’t always AI).

That's understandable tbh. The reason my reads sounded vague is because, well, I wasn't very sure on any of them? Like, that's why I labeled them as "Slightly trust" and "Slightly Iffy", I wasn't leaning too hard on any of them, with little info.

I don't think they've changed too much after the two flips, except that what distrust I had on MF before was based on multiple logical leaps off of Mawile. So I'd probably say I Slightly Trust MF now, I guess

Which does leave me with no suspects at this time, though the idea of quieter wolves makes sense to me too
I know my head is on the chopping block, but I'm afraid I don't have much else to offer at this time, aside from some speculation on the side:
How many mafia members do ya'll think there are, in a game this size? We wouldn't get a warning yet if it was 4, but is that more likely than 2 or 3?

I, for one, welcome our new mooing overlords

 

[kyeugh]

any chance it's because of her suspicion on Dodge?

i wouldn’t be mind blown if that was why, but it feels too wifom-y for it to make me any more sus of dodge than i already am. however, considering i indeed already am…

wanna join me on Dodge and see if anything happens?

yeah, sure. dodge

 

[Keldeo]

I got mooed at overnight. I also encountered some cows in real life. You really have to see it to belieef it.

@Keldeo so, I'm curious why you refused to join me on the mewt vote yesterday when you seemingly had much more reason to vote her than I did.

I don't remember when exactly in the day you voted her, but earlier in the day I wanted to keep more votes on Mawile to see about reactions to that train, although obviously I did not end up doing the right thing with this information. Later on, when kyeugh wasn't showing up / after kyeugh had said she wouldn't be able to play eod, I did not want to deny mewt the chance to play together with kyeugh when it seems like she had been really looking forward to that. (Not to single out kyeugh among the folks who haven't recently played on here but ykwim.) There was another thing that I was going back and forth on but don't really want to say right now.

idk what you mean by much more reason, I definitely didn't think I felt as strongly about mewt as you did?

the only reason I had for my vote was her reasoning behind the Dodge vote, while you listed several more reasons about her play this game in general. and you listed them multiple times even when EoD was approaching so it wasn't like you just changed your mind about those reasons. and it felt kind of like you were egging me on a bit (maybe strong wording, but yk) and yet you never voted her yourself. and now we know she was town and I am feeling a bit like you knew that already and didn't want to be associated with a mis-elim on a prominent player.

I mean, no? The stronger reason was that she had made reads I thought had thin reasons and stuck with them, and I think I said that could have come from town who had limited time/material to use to get into the game (what are we doing but forcing reads right now man; she said also that she hadn't reread the game.) The lighter reason was that some of her posts had read as piggybacking on other people's suspicions. If I can be honest now that we know you were wrong, the Dodge thing was more like, okay Eifie really seems to believe in this, I think Eifie is town, and Eifie is generally better at making reads than me.

but that didn't apply to mewtini despite you having your own other reasons to suspect her too?

I think you're misunderstanding the post you're responding to (my fault, I'm in a rush). By "the Dodge thing" I mean the reason you expressed for sussing mewtini, namely her Dodge suspicion. I am not talking about my reasons for suspecting anyone besides mewtini in this post, so I'm confused what you mean by "that didn't apply to mewtini" - what didn't apply to mewtini, and who was the person it did apply to?

 

[Eifie]

I got mooed at overnight. I also encountered some cows in real life. You really have to see it to belieef it.

@Keldeo so, I'm curious why you refused to join me on the mewt vote yesterday when you seemingly had much more reason to vote her than I did.

I don't remember when exactly in the day you voted her, but earlier in the day I wanted to keep more votes on Mawile to see about reactions to that train, although obviously I did not end up doing the right thing with this information. Later on, when kyeugh wasn't showing up / after kyeugh had said she wouldn't be able to play eod, I did not want to deny mewt the chance to play together with kyeugh when it seems like she had been really looking forward to that. (Not to single out kyeugh among the folks who haven't recently played on here but ykwim.) There was another thing that I was going back and forth on but don't really want to say right now.

idk what you mean by much more reason, I definitely didn't think I felt as strongly about mewt as you did?

the only reason I had for my vote was her reasoning behind the Dodge vote, while you listed several more reasons about her play this game in general. and you listed them multiple times even when EoD was approaching so it wasn't like you just changed your mind about those reasons. and it felt kind of like you were egging me on a bit (maybe strong wording, but yk) and yet you never voted her yourself. and now we know she was town and I am feeling a bit like you knew that already and didn't want to be associated with a mis-elim on a prominent player.

I mean, no? The stronger reason was that she had made reads I thought had thin reasons and stuck with them, and I think I said that could have come from town who had limited time/material to use to get into the game (what are we doing but forcing reads right now man; she said also that she hadn't reread the game.) The lighter reason was that some of her posts had read as piggybacking on other people's suspicions. If I can be honest now that we know you were wrong, the Dodge thing was more like, okay Eifie really seems to believe in this, I think Eifie is town, and Eifie is generally better at making reads than me.

but that didn't apply to mewtini despite you having your own other reasons to suspect her too?

I think you're misunderstanding the post you're responding to (my fault, I'm in a rush). By "the Dodge thing" I mean the reason you expressed for sussing mewtini, namely her Dodge suspicion. I am not talking about my reasons for suspecting anyone besides mewtini in this post, so I'm confused what you mean by "that didn't apply to mewtini" - what didn't apply to mewtini, and who was the person it did apply to?

um... now I'm also confused. sorry.

I'm probably repeating myself because I lost track of the conversation and I'm honk shi moo, but it seems like you're saying the stuff I said about the Dodge read was compelling to you at the time. and you also had other reasons for suspicion, so I find it strange that you didn't vote.

 

[Eifie]

A message!

GREETINGS, MY HERD. THIS IS YOUR SHEPHERD SPEAKING. I LOVE YOU. MY HEART BRIMS WITH JOY THAT I MAY LEARN THE CONTOURS OF YOUR VAST, VAST, OCEANIC SOULS. PLEASE ASK ME ANYTHING. I CRAVE YOUR GENTLE MOOING. I WILL ALWAYS TRY TO ANSWER YOU. TONIGHT'S ARTWORK: TRAGEDY OF THE COWMMONS

the physical form was feeling kind of bad so I went and reread this and it cheered me up. I moo gently in thanks and ask my humble shepherd to cure the physical form of its woes

 

[Keldeo]

I got mooed at overnight. I also encountered some cows in real life. You really have to see it to belieef it.

@Keldeo so, I'm curious why you refused to join me on the mewt vote yesterday when you seemingly had much more reason to vote her than I did.

I don't remember when exactly in the day you voted her, but earlier in the day I wanted to keep more votes on Mawile to see about reactions to that train, although obviously I did not end up doing the right thing with this information. Later on, when kyeugh wasn't showing up / after kyeugh had said she wouldn't be able to play eod, I did not want to deny mewt the chance to play together with kyeugh when it seems like she had been really looking forward to that. (Not to single out kyeugh among the folks who haven't recently played on here but ykwim.) There was another thing that I was going back and forth on but don't really want to say right now.

idk what you mean by much more reason, I definitely didn't think I felt as strongly about mewt as you did?

the only reason I had for my vote was her reasoning behind the Dodge vote, while you listed several more reasons about her play this game in general. and you listed them multiple times even when EoD was approaching so it wasn't like you just changed your mind about those reasons. and it felt kind of like you were egging me on a bit (maybe strong wording, but yk) and yet you never voted her yourself. and now we know she was town and I am feeling a bit like you knew that already and didn't want to be associated with a mis-elim on a prominent player.

I mean, no? The stronger reason was that she had made reads I thought had thin reasons and stuck with them, and I think I said that could have come from town who had limited time/material to use to get into the game (what are we doing but forcing reads right now man; she said also that she hadn't reread the game.) The lighter reason was that some of her posts had read as piggybacking on other people's suspicions. If I can be honest now that we know you were wrong, the Dodge thing was more like, okay Eifie really seems to believe in this, I think Eifie is town, and Eifie is generally better at making reads than me.

but that didn't apply to mewtini despite you having your own other reasons to suspect her too?

I think you're misunderstanding the post you're responding to (my fault, I'm in a rush). By "the Dodge thing" I mean the reason you expressed for sussing mewtini, namely her Dodge suspicion. I am not talking about my reasons for suspecting anyone besides mewtini in this post, so I'm confused what you mean by "that didn't apply to mewtini" - what didn't apply to mewtini, and who was the person it did apply to?

um... now I'm also confused. sorry.

I'm probably repeating myself because I lost track of the conversation and I'm honk shi moo, but it seems like you're saying the stuff I said about the Dodge read was compelling to you at the time. and you also had other reasons for suspicion, so I find it strange that you didn't vote.

Oh, I think I might understand: are you saying, if I was voting Mawile for reactions, why didn't I join you on mewt for reactions, too? I considered it. One consideration against was that mewt was townread by more people, whereas people trying to save Mawile would be a bigger and more notable shift. But honestly it was just mostly not wanting to d1 daykill the person who cheered for everyone signing up, even if there was a legitimate world she was mafia.

I admit the end result looks strange/bad, but also like... what mafia gameplan exactly involves mafia me openly stoking the vocal town's suspicions of mewt, which as you note seems to suggest setting her up to be eliminated without me having a vote that looks bad - and then not only ending the day with a vote that looks bad anyway, but also nightkilling the person I'm supposedly setting up for suspicion? (This is a rhetorical question, I think probably the conversation could continue ad infinitum with you saying well, that's still weird and I'm still gonna tinfoil you, and me saying well, my reasons are still real and you'd still be wrong to do so. Honk sheep moo.)

 

[Keldeo]

How many mafia members do ya'll think there are, in a game this size? We wouldn't get a warning yet if it was 4, but is that more likely than 2 or 3?

I'd say probably 3, possibly 2.

What made you ask this question? Is the answer relevant to how you're thinking about the game?

Mawile is dead and you say you now trust MF; who are your main suspicions right now?

 

[Keldeo]

the only real leans i came up with for anyone were the ones i get habitually in every game—i always want to read mf as scummy, i always find keldeo and butterfree impossible and dangerous to read, i always instinctively want to trust eifie and mewt. idk. none of these impulses feel useful to the game at all, but i’m having real trouble overcoming them.

I'm curious, what would you want to see from some of the people you haven't mentioned? Particularly people like missingno, DarkAura? Does that question make any sense? (Also, I am happy you are here now, and hoping you are doing alright!)

 

[Keldeo]

I am also curious @Butterfree what your thoughts are in general after the flip of Mawile and in particular about the wagon that formed on you?

Very lightly liking kyeugh's posting so far. I think the progression from saying she had no thoughts to spooling out many thoughts after Eif's question feels natural. And also my phone keeps autocorrecting her name to Kyleigh.

@Eifie as requested, five thousand questions:
1. Have any off-the-cuff thoughts on Ever's EOD posting? I don't mind if you don't have any/want to hear mine first, this is mostly to remind myself to reread that sometime
2. I had drawn a couple conclusions reflexively based on the sleepiness of EOD, but is it reasonable to say that those conclusions should probably just be ignored because of how many people were not around?
3. I have some questions about your Dodge vote and world building but I guess they should probably wait until after he answers my questions
4. If I have a couple hours tomorrow is there anything I can do to try to help convince you I am town?

If it isn't clear Eifie is still my top town read mostly for tonal and activity reasons.