Blank Canvas Mafia Game Thread

[Keldeo]

Spoiler: What do you call a sleepy cow?

Besszzz...

(It works besst if you pronounce zzz as three letter Zs and the letter Z as "zee" instead of "zed".)

 

[Eifie]

I got mooed at overnight. I also encountered some cows in real life. You really have to see it to belieef it.

@Keldeo so, I'm curious why you refused to join me on the mewt vote yesterday when you seemingly had much more reason to vote her than I did.

I don't remember when exactly in the day you voted her, but earlier in the day I wanted to keep more votes on Mawile to see about reactions to that train, although obviously I did not end up doing the right thing with this information. Later on, when kyeugh wasn't showing up / after kyeugh had said she wouldn't be able to play eod, I did not want to deny mewt the chance to play together with kyeugh when it seems like she had been really looking forward to that. (Not to single out kyeugh among the folks who haven't recently played on here but ykwim.) There was another thing that I was going back and forth on but don't really want to say right now.

idk what you mean by much more reason, I definitely didn't think I felt as strongly about mewt as you did?

the only reason I had for my vote was her reasoning behind the Dodge vote, while you listed several more reasons about her play this game in general. and you listed them multiple times even when EoD was approaching so it wasn't like you just changed your mind about those reasons. and it felt kind of like you were egging me on a bit (maybe strong wording, but yk) and yet you never voted her yourself. and now we know she was town and I am feeling a bit like you knew that already and didn't want to be associated with a mis-elim on a prominent player.

I mean, no? The stronger reason was that she had made reads I thought had thin reasons and stuck with them, and I think I said that could have come from town who had limited time/material to use to get into the game (what are we doing but forcing reads right now man; she said also that she hadn't reread the game.) The lighter reason was that some of her posts had read as piggybacking on other people's suspicions. If I can be honest now that we know you were wrong, the Dodge thing was more like, okay Eifie really seems to believe in this, I think Eifie is town, and Eifie is generally better at making reads than me.

but that didn't apply to mewtini despite you having your own other reasons to suspect her too?

I think you're misunderstanding the post you're responding to (my fault, I'm in a rush). By "the Dodge thing" I mean the reason you expressed for sussing mewtini, namely her Dodge suspicion. I am not talking about my reasons for suspecting anyone besides mewtini in this post, so I'm confused what you mean by "that didn't apply to mewtini" - what didn't apply to mewtini, and who was the person it did apply to?

um... now I'm also confused. sorry.

I'm probably repeating myself because I lost track of the conversation and I'm honk shi moo, but it seems like you're saying the stuff I said about the Dodge read was compelling to you at the time. and you also had other reasons for suspicion, so I find it strange that you didn't vote.

Oh, I think I might understand: are you saying, if I was voting Mawile for reactions, why didn't I join you on mewt for reactions, too? I considered it. One consideration against was that mewt was townread by more people, whereas people trying to save Mawile would be a bigger and more notable shift. But honestly it was just mostly not wanting to d1 daykill the person who cheered for everyone signing up, even if there was a legitimate world she was mafia.

I admit the end result looks strange/bad, but also like... what mafia gameplan exactly involves mafia me openly stoking the vocal town's suspicions of mewt, which as you note seems to suggest setting her up to be eliminated without me having a vote that looks bad - and then not only ending the day with a vote that looks bad anyway, but also nightkilling the person I'm supposedly setting up for suspicion? (This is a rhetorical question, I think probably the conversation could continue ad infinitum with you saying well, that's still weird and I'm still gonna tinfoil you, and me saying well, my reasons are still real and you'd still be wrong to do so. Honk sheep moo.)

hum. I will think about it. (just kidding, I will probably not think about it...) I also realized that mewtini being town doesn't actually factor into this because it would be just as strange, if not worse, if she was mafia. (like in that hydra game where you fled the premises so that you wouldn't have to vote your mafia partner that I was asking you to vote lmao)

(though also I think if you are mafia, you did not pick the night kill and were like "I don't want to kill mewtini, but if you must")

 

[Eifie]

I am also curious @Butterfree what your thoughts are in general after the flip of Mawile and in particular about the wagon that formed on you?

Very lightly liking kyeugh's posting so far. I think the progression from saying she had no thoughts to spooling out many thoughts after Eif's question feels natural. And also my phone keeps autocorrecting her name to Kyleigh.

@Eifie as requested, five thousand questions:
1. Have any off-the-cuff thoughts on Ever's EOD posting? I don't mind if you don't have any/want to hear mine first, this is mostly to remind myself to reread that sometime
2. I had drawn a couple conclusions reflexively based on the sleepiness of EOD, but is it reasonable to say that those conclusions should probably just be ignored because of how many people were not around?
3. I have some questions about your Dodge vote and world building but I guess they should probably wait until after he answers my questions
4. If I have a couple hours tomorrow is there anything I can do to try to help convince you I am town?

If it isn't clear Eifie is still my top town read mostly for tonal and activity reasons.

requested?! I am fleeing the premises.

1. I can't remember if I already said but I no longer townread ver as much. but I'm not sure like... instinctively I like ver posts at EoD, you know? like they were very self-assured and reasonable... but I also think wolves were staying away from the main wagons, and ve sure was also doing that. also, I think I was wrong about ver thought process for initially voting MF (which I had thought was towny). I won't say more about that but everything needed to figure that out is public information now.

2. I'm not sure... I think many people were around and not actually posting. (which, to be clear, I am not criticizing - play the game the way you like that is fun for you!) I think maybe the conclusions you have might be the same as my thoughts? also this is irrelevant but it's kind of funny that you say this because yeah in hindsight it was kinda sleepy but boy was I losing my mind while it was happening. well like the last five minutes. which, probably you are considering a larger time window.

3. honestly I haven't put much thought into it lol and I don't know if I feel like putting thought into it at any point. I just wanted to start with my main point of contention with mewt and see what happens because I feel like I kind of owe her that lol.

4. nah. just do whatever you would normally do. hoomf sheep moo

 

[Dodge]

How many mafia members do ya'll think there are, in a game this size? We wouldn't get a warning yet if it was 4, but is that more likely than 2 or 3?

I'd say probably 3, possibly 2.

What made you ask this question? Is the answer relevant to how you're thinking about the game?

Mawile is dead and you say you now trust MF; who are your main suspicions right now?

Mostly I was worried 4 mafia would mean we're at risk already. I don't know what's a "normal" Mafia:Town ratio, and my first game started in MYLO, so I think that taught me some paranoia
But this is a bigger game than that, so it's probably more balanced, 2 or 3 makes sense

On my suspicions, I don't think anyone in particular right now? Aside from agreeing with kyeugh that there's probably at least one wolf among the abstainers/non-voters. If they saw us already voting Townies, they'd probably want to stay out of the way and unremarkable

 

[kyeugh]

And also my phone keeps autocorrecting her name to Kyleigh.

 

[kyeugh]

the only real leans i came up with for anyone were the ones i get habitually in every game—i always want to read mf as scummy, i always find keldeo and butterfree impossible and dangerous to read, i always instinctively want to trust eifie and mewt. idk. none of these impulses feel useful to the game at all, but i’m having real trouble overcoming them.

I'm curious, what would you want to see from some of the people you haven't mentioned? Particularly people like missingno, DarkAura? Does that question make any sense? (Also, I am happy you are here now, and hoping you are doing alright!)

it makes sense! i’d like to see some kind of readlist, i guess, to start. both darkaura and missingno feel like black boxes right now. i think im somewhat more inclined to read darkaura charitably because “everyone is town” doesn’t feel like a wolf post and also theyve barely been in the thread.

and aww, i’m happy you’re here too! we’re all here!! it’s tcod ultimate! i’m doing pretty well, i hope you are as well!! my life has been really crazy at baseline lately, but i’m adapting to the chaos. :)

 

[Eifie]

may I also be part of tcod ultimate

 

[Eifie]

the only real leans i came up with for anyone were the ones i get habitually in every game—i always want to read mf as scummy, i always find keldeo and butterfree impossible and dangerous to read, i always instinctively want to trust eifie and mewt. idk. none of these impulses feel useful to the game at all, but i’m having real trouble overcoming them.

I'm curious, what would you want to see from some of the people you haven't mentioned? Particularly people like missingno, DarkAura? Does that question make any sense? (Also, I am happy you are here now, and hoping you are doing alright!)

it makes sense! i’d like to see some kind of readlist, i guess, to start. both darkaura and missingno feel like black boxes right now. i think im somewhat more inclined to read darkaura charitably because “everyone is town” doesn’t feel like a wolf post and also theyve barely been in the thread.

and aww, i’m happy you’re here too! we’re all here!! it’s tcod ultimate! i’m doing pretty well, i hope you are as well!! my life has been really crazy at baseline lately, but i’m adapting to the chaos. :)

I don't think I agree about wolves not saying "everyone is town" but I'm kind of pocketed by oh sideways perhaps Otis we're really in it now

 

[Eifie]

How many mafia members do ya'll think there are, in a game this size? We wouldn't get a warning yet if it was 4, but is that more likely than 2 or 3?

I'd say probably 3, possibly 2.

What made you ask this question? Is the answer relevant to how you're thinking about the game?

Mawile is dead and you say you now trust MF; who are your main suspicions right now?

Mostly I was worried 4 mafia would mean we're at risk already. I don't know what's a "normal" Mafia:Town ratio, and my first game started in MYLO, so I think that taught me some paranoia
But this is a bigger game than that, so it's probably more balanced, 2 or 3 makes sense

On my suspicions, I don't think anyone in particular right now? Aside from agreeing with kyeugh that there's probably at least one wolf among the abstainers/non-voters. If they saw us already voting Townies, they'd probably want to stay out of the way and unremarkable

if you had to vote one of those abstainers/non-voter, who would it be?

 

[missingno?]

Hi hello I live ٩(ˊᗜˋ*)و ♡ (ish. I'm doing games but have more online leeway than yday!)

@missingno? @xrunner48 can we expect thoughts and votes for you today? iirc it was the two of you who said that d2 was when you'd start doing analysis proper.

(no rush, of course, esp missingno I know you're not here today)

Yes, I will be doing the voting and the thinking thing today. I can't promised GOOD thoughts but I will do my best ! EOD is tomorrow?

 

[missingno?]

I don't think I agree about wolves not saying "everyone is town" but I'm kind of pocketed by oh sideways perhaps Otis we're really in it now

I think me talking about me being towny makes me extremely innocent actually

Source: it came to me in a dream

 

[Eifie]

Hi hello I live ٩(ˊᗜˋ*)و ♡ (ish. I'm doing games but have more online leeway than yday!)

@missingno? @xrunner48 can we expect thoughts and votes for you today? iirc it was the two of you who said that d2 was when you'd start doing analysis proper.

(no rush, of course, esp missingno I know you're not here today)

Yes, I will be doing the voting and the thinking thing today. I can't promised GOOD thoughts but I will do my best ! EOD is tomorrow?

yep, it's tomorrow. happy to hear any thoughts you have!!

 

[Dodge]

How many mafia members do ya'll think there are, in a game this size? We wouldn't get a warning yet if it was 4, but is that more likely than 2 or 3?

I'd say probably 3, possibly 2.

What made you ask this question? Is the answer relevant to how you're thinking about the game?

Mawile is dead and you say you now trust MF; who are your main suspicions right now?

Mostly I was worried 4 mafia would mean we're at risk already. I don't know what's a "normal" Mafia:Town ratio, and my first game started in MYLO, so I think that taught me some paranoia
But this is a bigger game than that, so it's probably more balanced, 2 or 3 makes sense

On my suspicions, I don't think anyone in particular right now? Aside from agreeing with kyeugh that there's probably at least one wolf among the abstainers/non-voters. If they saw us already voting Townies, they'd probably want to stay out of the way and unremarkable

if you had to vote one of those abstainers/non-voter, who would it be?

Hmm...I feel like xrunner was the biggest advocate of abstaining, which isn't really AI so I'm not particularly sus, but feels like the most relevant play between those, I think. Still, if I HAD to vote someone right now with what we've got, he's probably the one I trust the least? I dunno, I wanna hear his thoughts and Missingno?'s before I start typing in bold

 

[Keldeo]

Before this joke stops being relevant, here's the vote cownt:

Dodge (tri-tip): Eifie, kyeugh, Keldeo
No vote (7-bone steak): Butterfree, DarkAura, Dodge, Ever, MF the ISOable, missingno?, xrunner48

 

[Eifie]

Before this joke stops being relevant, here's the vote cownt:

Dodge (tri-tip): Eifie, kyeugh, Keldeo
No vote (7-bone steak): Butterfree, DarkAura, Dodge, Ever, MF the ISOable, missingno?, xrunner48

explain meme

 

[Butterfree]

Hello, I'm deeply sorry for unexisting, my weekend has been a lot more busy than I expected @_@

I am also curious @Butterfree what your thoughts are in general after the flip of Mawile and in particular about the wagon that formed on you?

My biggest thought is a big welp. I had a lot of tunnely associations going on yesterDay and none of that really meant anything. Need to properly sort through and update thoughts on everyone else in light of town!Mawile, but the main place my brain is going is Dodge, and I really regret that I didn't get to rereading him, since I had been feeling mildly worse about him as the day went on but by that time I was a bit too deep on Mawile for it to properly register. I think that's my first stop after this post, squinting at Dodge's posting again.

The wagon on me looks pretty circumstantial to me - MF voted me initially based on a misreading, then mewtini voted me out of wanting an alternative to Dodge/Mawile, and then Mawile voted me for self-preservation. Something I noticed better when I reskimmed EoD was MF's answer to you about why she stayed on me:

still the placement of the vote on Mawile; I was wrong about the thought that she hadn't sussed them at all prior, but she still spoke of it very little for it to be the final move, especially being that she sounded like she was going a lot stronger on me

...which again seems like a misreading of my post, since I placed the two of them on the same tier of suspicion in my read summary and was thinking of them as about equally suspect until I placed my science vote on Mawile. I can probably get it if MF just sort of perceived my expressed suspicion of her more strongly than on Mawile because I wrote more words about her...? Generally, misunderstandings make things feel less agenda'd to me, so on balance this tips me toward town!MF. But I can see a world where mafia!MF was looking to park her vote innocuously on an alternative wagon, read my ISO quickly and saw something that looked like a lack of progression, jumped on it as an easily-justified vote, and then didn't want to have to look for something else so she just sort of quickly argued herself into the lack of progression still sort of being a thing without examining it too closely.

 

[Ever]

Busy weekend for me as well, sorry for the inactivity !! I have tomorrow off, so planning to reread the whole game tonight or tomorrow morning and hopefully sort my thoughts a bit in light of the last two elimoonations.

 

[Butterfree]

Man, Dodge's ISO is actually shorter than I thought. If I had not been half-asleep before EoD I totally could have covered this.

Dodge I'm not getting a very substantial read on even on an ISO, feels reasonably at ease but I would need to check out his previous games to know if that means much. @Dodge Out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on MF after getting her response regarding her potential reasons for Keldeo to pick Mawile? I saw you said you found it enlightening re: Mawile, but it sounded like you expected MF's reasons to be joke reasons; does the fact it wasn't change your impression of MF at all?

I did expect the reasons to be joke ones, because it felt too early to have any real ones, basically. So it was either jokes or knowledge of Mawile's prior playstyle. It being the latter doesn't reeeeally change my impression, though. But I'll agree that a confused mafia would be asking about missing a night action in mafia chat instead of in the thread (source: that was me last game, I was the confused mafia)

I figured it was a joke vote or a way to start conversation, and Mawile thought the same too

this isn't really in line with how i interpreted mawile's reaction (i thought he had a more substantial one) but now i'm wondering if i'm off?

Between you being off and me being off, I think the latter's more likely lol
I figured Mawile took it as either a joke or a conversation starter due to not really responding to it at first. The no elim vote does seem a bit panicked, which does make me lean slightly to suspecting Mawile, but I still feel like it's too early to really tell? I dunno, the fence is where I live apparently

I figured it was a joke vote or a way to start conversation, and Mawile thought the same too

this isn't really in line with how i interpreted mawile's reaction (i thought he had a more substantial one) but now i'm wondering if i'm off?

I think at first Mawile basically did nothing and was like I am chill, then the no elim vote came later

I sort of got the sense that Dodge posted a thought about the first ~2 pages of that interaction and then did not update/has not yet updated that thought given new developments in the thread.

Yeah, my bad, haven't been talking much lol

I think this was the first post that struck me as a bit less at ease than his earlier posts, probably because it's more waffly and defensive which projects more nerves. Which can just be new player under some pressure, but.

In general Dodge got substantially wafflier and more noticeably evasive/reluctant to actually commit as the pressure to state opinions increased. New players can be that way a bit either way, but it's not a great look.

Oh boy, I'm back after a while! I'm caught up now, though
I can understand the wariness towards me considering my tone is kinda, well, all over the place.
In my first game as Town, I didn't talk much partly because the game was short, and partly just standard-issue social anxiety lol
I'd like to think I'm getting more comfortable with time, but nervous jokes are still my default I guess.

Regardless, in my second game, as Mafia, I started posting more in the hopes of getting people lynched despite worrying about incriminating myself (which almost backfired, I remember mewtini almost gave me a heart attack near the end), but people going inactive kinda carried me there

Of course, all of this to say that I probably do sound nervous rn (especially with multiple votes for me now), but I do believe that's not too different from before? I dunno, I'm not gonna try to pull the smol bean "I'm not evil, I'm just bad" defense two games in a row (especially when I was evil when I did, I'm pretty much the boy who cried skill issue)

Either way, even with my head on the chopping block, I'm still hesitant to risk voting out an innocent, so I wanna hear more from ya'll before I cast any votes. I know abstaining too often isn't the best, but I still feel MF, mewtini and Butterfree are contributing similarly to how they did the previous recent games (I haven't gone back to check, but I think Butterfree was a bit more quiet than this when she was Mafia in my first game?) So I guess at most I could be persuaded to vote for Mawile? But I'll have to read back some more for that as well

Again waffly and also rather defensive, with the big focus on analyzing his own meta. What really sticks out to me, though, is indicating town meta reads on MF/mewtini/me and being most inclined to vote for Mawile on the basis of a process of elimination from there, but:

OK, reading back through the thread and trying to get my thoughts in order a bit:
Slightly Trust: mewtini, Butterfree (both seem about as active and contributing takes as when they were Town recently)
Eifie, Keldeo (basically the same on contribution, except I haven't played with them before so slightly lighter read I guess)
missingno? (I just think they're neat)


Slightly Iffy: Mawile (Maybe I'm being swayed by Butterfree's recent posts, but I do think that mafia would probably have pushed a bandwagon to vote him, and the fact that it instead died off and diverted into multiple other people does seem a bit off)
MF (a bit more vibes based I guess, but the recent push for targetting Butterfree and especially doing so while she's continuing to pressure Mawile kinda rubs me the wrong way?)


IDK: Everyone else (either hasn't posted much/at all or just kinda didn't stand out as particularly towny or mafia-y)

The reasoning for Mawile being iffy feels a bit confused, sort of sheeping me but put as if there wasn't a Mawile bandwagon when obviously there was, without bringing up the previously indicated process of elimination as part of it? That's definitely pinging me as post-hoc reasoning, especially since Dodge had already determined in the previous post that he might vote for Mawile and then brings this out.

Meanwhile, MF is now slightly iffy simply by association with Mawile, even after the previous town read, which also feels like sheeping.

Oh no! RIP mewtini, she seemed so happy to be here...
Also RIP Mawile, I lowkey wish I knew who he was gonna target that was "Either the best or worst mafia play ever"

i am raising an eyebrow at dodge. i think his justification for his suspicion of mawile is baffling, and their read list just feels very, like, inoffensively constructed (maybe intentionally so) but the explanations of the reads seem vague and like they could be post-hoc?? i am hesitant to lean too hard on a read for dodge because i think i could easily be sheeping suspicion here, particularly as i’m given to do that on people whose play styles i don’t exactly understand (in ways that aren’t always AI).

That's understandable tbh. The reason my reads sounded vague is because, well, I wasn't very sure on any of them? Like, that's why I labeled them as "Slightly trust" and "Slightly Iffy", I wasn't leaning too hard on any of them, with little info.

I don't think they've changed too much after the two flips, except that what distrust I had on MF before was based on multiple logical leaps off of Mawile. So I'd probably say I Slightly Trust MF now, I guess

Which does leave me with no suspects at this time, though the idea of quieter wolves makes sense to me too
I know my head is on the chopping block, but I'm afraid I don't have much else to offer at this time, aside from some speculation on the side:
How many mafia members do ya'll think there are, in a game this size? We wouldn't get a warning yet if it was 4, but is that more likely than 2 or 3?

I, for one, welcome our new mooing overlords

Diverting the conversation onto the setup while having no opinions to express again isn't a great look either.

I dunno, most of these things could be done by nervous town but I'm not feeling great about the totality of it at all. I've yet to take a further look at others buuuut it is 2:20 AM and I really need to go to sleep so I think I feel good about throwing in a Vote: Dodge for tonight.

 

[Keldeo]

I'll unvote Dodge just to be mindful of majority (6 people).

Before this joke stops being relevant, here's the vote cownt:

Dodge (tri-tip): Eifie, kyeugh, Keldeo
No vote (7-bone steak): Butterfree, DarkAura, Dodge, Ever, MF the ISOable, missingno?, xrunner48

explain meme

Um... I just wanted to make a joke involving the beef cut 7-bone steak because there are/were 7 people not voting. I guess the joke didn't quite loind for you?

Spoiler

(though also I think if you are mafia, you did not pick the night kill and were like "I don't want to kill mewtini, but if you must")

(Obviously I would argue strenuously against killing someone who had laughed at cow jokes.)

I think maybe the conclusions you have might be the same as my thoughts? also this is irrelevant but it's kind of funny that you say this because yeah in hindsight it was kinda sleepy but boy was I losing my mind while it was happening. well like the last five minutes. which, probably you are considering a larger time window.

Could I ask, why do you think wolves were avoiding the main wagons?

What I was thinking was, no one seemed really alarmed by the Butterfree train or interested in saving her. But looking back at the timestamps, Butterfree basically only became a wagon in the last 15 minutes of the day, starting from Mawile's vote for her. I think the only people there at that point were us, Mawile, and Ever (who did express more of a desire to vote Mawile than Butterfree, despite not moving ver vote.) So it's less helpful than I had thought.

 

[Keldeo]

How many mafia members do ya'll think there are, in a game this size? We wouldn't get a warning yet if it was 4, but is that more likely than 2 or 3?

I'd say probably 3, possibly 2.

What made you ask this question? Is the answer relevant to how you're thinking about the game?

Mawile is dead and you say you now trust MF; who are your main suspicions right now?

Mostly I was worried 4 mafia would mean we're at risk already. I don't know what's a "normal" Mafia:Town ratio, and my first game started in MYLO, so I think that taught me some paranoia
But this is a bigger game than that, so it's probably more balanced, 2 or 3 makes sense

On my suspicions, I don't think anyone in particular right now? Aside from agreeing with kyeugh that there's probably at least one wolf among the abstainers/non-voters. If they saw us already voting Townies, they'd probably want to stay out of the way and unremarkable

So I have been reading Dodge's posting today with somewhat of a critical/confirmation-biasy eye, but I agree with others that his lines of thought seem disconnected / potentially made up. If he was thinking today might have been MYLO, I would expect him to have, if not some worry about the fact he might die and lose town the game, at least some suspicion of the people who've voted him with no justifications. It could be newer town who's just having trouble making decisions and hasn't been particularly aware of the vote positions, like Butterfree mentioned. On balance I lean toward mafia having trouble faking content and not wanting to tip the hand.

It's weird that no counterwagon or movement against the previously-4-vote Dodge train has formed in any way, but also half the players have not checked in or have only checked in to say they're busy (which is, to be clear, totally valid), so I'm again having trouble convincing myself that that means anything. idk.

If Dodge is mafia, ...I guess MF sticks out as the "level 1" teammate for her early townread of him for fairly light reasons / Dodge's leaning away from her when pressed to choose her or Mawile. In terms of vote position I think kyeugh's vote today would be a good look for her. I don't have as strong feelings about Butterfree's vote simce this seems like a pretty opportune time for potential mafia Butterfree to hop on the bus given that the three most active people today are all voting for him. (Notwithstanding my existing quite strong read on her, there was a moment I squinted at yesterday where Eifie was just like "nah I don't see it" when I talked about suspecting Dodge, but mafia Eifie could have done like anything else today besides start off a train on Dodge, so.)