"Deviantart, Binarism, and Transphobia" - Discussion

[Medical Meccanica]

So I saw Alraune's post mention this article on dA. Now, I'm not a dA worshiper, but I find it's easy to use, helps get you exposure, and happens to be larger than Sheezyart and such. So don't go into this thinking I'm a dA fangirl/boy.

So... I consider myself bigender, meaning I can consciously/unconsciously move between male and female personalities. Thus, I fall under the transgender umbrella. And yet I don't understand the big deal about this in the first place.

I understand that what the staff member said about there being two sexes is offensive, but there was really nothing for this person to write in about in the beginning. Everyone has SOMETHING below the belt. Pick which it is and go on with your life.

Honestly I'm tired of transgenders throwing a hissy-fit whenever something isn't in line with their view of the world. Yes, we're mistreated, but I find it a lot more appalling when someone goes "HEY! You're making a decision that will work best with most people, but is a minor inconvenience for trans people! Fix it or else you're a transphobe!"

So, someone who's more into the transgender community PLEASE explain to me why this is such a big deal? =/

 

[opaltiger]

So, someone who's more into the transgender community PLEASE explain to me why this is such a big deal? =/

Because the assumption of a gender binary ensures that you will forever be part of a fringe group of individuals who are weird and don't fit in.

"HEY! You're making a decision that will work best with most people, but is a minor inconvenience for trans people! Fix it or else you're a transphobe!"

Is it that hard to add an "other" option for gender? No. A tiny bit of effort can go a long way towards making people feel included.

 

[Medical Meccanica]

Because the assumption of a gender binary ensures that you will forever be part of a fringe group of individuals who are weird and don't fit in.

We are a fringe group of individuals, though. And currently we ARE considered weird and don't fit in.

And no, it's not hard. But it's also not necessary. Pick one and move on.

 

[Shiny Grimer]

Honestly I'm tired of transgenders throwing a hissy-fit whenever something isn't in line with their view of the world. Yes, we're mistreated, but I find it a lot more appalling when someone goes "HEY! You're making a decision that will work best with most people, but is a minor inconvenience for trans people! Fix it or else you're a transphobe!"

I'm not into the transgender community, but I'll give this a shot. I'm going to start saying some really obvious stuff you already know so please bear with me!

Having only two options under gender excludes people who aren't binary. Being forced to identify with a gender you don't identify with can make someone feel frustrated or bad. It would be very easy to just add an option saying "other" or "unspecified" - this option would make everyone happy as now people who aren't part of the majority can identify themselves properly, too. The refusal to do this usually stems from ignorance or transphobia. Basically, once someone informs you that something you're doing is making a minority uncomfortable, you ought to change it so that everyone can be comfortable.

Everyone has SOMETHING below the belt.

And what if someone doesn't want to mention their sex? What reason is there for someone to mention their sex? Deviantart isn't a dating site (and actually I'd argue that a dating site should be even more careful with gender and sex for obvious reasons) so there's really no need to mention it. If something's causing problems (making people reveal information they don't want to reveal/identify themselves in a misleading way) and it's not necessary or even wanted... why not remove it or change it?

 

[Dark Shocktail]

We are a fringe group of individuals, though. And currently we ARE considered weird and don't fit in.

And no, it's not hard. But it's also not necessary. Pick one and move on.

Well, don't you want to be considered 'not weird' and accepted by people? Because I'm pretty sure if the gay men and women of the world took this view, the whole gay rights movement wouldn't have gotten very far.

 

[Zora of Termina]

So, someone who's more into the transgender community PLEASE explain to me why this is such a big deal?

Because telling people to pick and choose impedes progress as a society and furthers the idea of a gender binary, which most people under the trans umbrella (except apparently you), the LGBT umbrella in general, and most smart people would rather not be furthered in the first place?

 

[opaltiger]

We are a fringe group of individuals, though. And currently we ARE considered weird and don't fit in.

Right. And you're... fine with that? You're fine with, say, police brutality against transgendered persons? Because that isn't going to stop until people start seeing that there is more to gender than male and female.

And no, it's not hard. But it's also not necessary. Pick one and move on.

I'm sorry, but I don't think you comprehend just how insulting that is.

 

[Medical Meccanica]

Okay, I understand now that dA was being lazy/transphobic/whatever. But was such a huge hissyfit really necessary? I still don't see it as being a huge deal.

Well, don't you want to be considered 'not weird' and accepted by people? Because I'm pretty sure of the gay men and women of the world took this view, the whole gay rights movement wouldn't have gotten very far.

Yeah, but shouldn't the trans community work on bigger issues first?

Because telling people to pick and choose impedes progress as a society and furthers the idea of a gender binary, which most people under the trans umbrella (except apparently you), the LGBT umbrella in general, and most smart people would rather not be furthered in the first place?

Uhh, thanks for the personal attack?

I don't want the idea of gender binaries furthered, but I still don't think it's such a huge deal to cause such commotion.

Right. And you're... fine with that? You're fine with, say, police brutality against transgendered persons? Because that isn't going to stop until people start seeing that there is more to gender than male and female.

I'm sorry, but I don't think you comprehend just how insulting that is.

There's a difference between being considered weird and being beaten the crap out of for who you are. I'm not in favor of the latter, but like I said, there are bigger issues than a large art site that's considered stupid by many anyways doing something that doesn't fly with a small group of people.

And uhm, sorry, I don't. Explain?

 

[Dark Shocktail]

Yeah, but shouldn't the trans community work on bigger issues first?

Like how Rosa Parks should've started on a bigger issue than being sat at the back of a bus? Most of these movements start over something that seems petty or small. It isn't a big deal really - just add the "other" option. Hell, I'm not even transgendered and I'd use it, just because I don't want people on dA to know my gender.

 

[Aisling]

This is a few days late- they've made a few changes since then

1) They changed Gender to Sex
2) They added Other to the new Sex
3) They apparently added a field in your profile or something where you can put whatever you identify as into a blank field

So they ask you for both your sex and gender. You can pick pick Other and leave the gender field blank if that bothers you, but it was still a lot of extra work on their end. People who had Unspecified for their Gender (before that part was changed to Sex with a new Gender field added) before they removed it still had it, so it was still in the coding somewhere. All they had to do was put it back, but instead they chose to totally ignore or tell off this person who was trying to get it into their heads. That is the issue.

dA has a bunch of stupid scandals like this all the time, from defending CP to failing to address users soliciting other underage users, and I don't really want to be associated with it anymore, if you want my opinion as to just why I left. This recent thing wasn't the only reason, it was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

 

[opaltiger]

Yeah, but shouldn't the trans community work on bigger issues first?

There are bigger issues than "not being considered weird"?

There's a difference between being considered weird and being beaten the crap out of for who you are.

True. That doesn't mean the latter would happen without the former.

I'm not in favor of the latter, but like I said, there are bigger issues than a large art site that's considered stupid by many anyways doing something that doesn't fly with a small group of people.

There's no easy way out. There is no magic solution that will make transphobia disappear. It has to be fought, inch by inch, at every turn. Every site that conforms to the gender binary is contributing, a little, towards transphobia; and every site which does the opposite is contributing a little to an overall acceptance in society.

This is how civil rights are obtained. It doesn't happen in an instant, and the largest obstacle is apathy.

And uhm, sorry, I don't. Explain?

Transgendered people are brought up in a society that expects them to be cisgendered. They're expected to be either male or female, depending on their sex. Never is an alternate option presented, And yet, that doesn't feel right. "Male" and "female" are not always enough. Even if they are, perhaps they conflict with the accident of conception that defines gender. All the pressures of society are forcing you to conform to one side or the other, and you don't feel like you belong to either.

And you're telling these people to "pick one and move on"?

 

[Medical Meccanica]

opaltiger, I wasn't saying that to transgenders in general - I understand the pressure. I get the same thing from my friends and parents. I was saying it regarding the deviantart gender-selection thing. I'm sorry for sounding like a dick.

Alright, I understand you guys, though I may not totally agree with you.

And Alraune, Kam just alerted me that you wrote that. I am so sorry, I thought you were just linking to it. I'll clear shit up in a PM.

So uhm. Can someone lock this? I don't want to insult anyone else.

 

[Aisling]

And Alraune, Kam just alerted me that you wrote that. I am so sorry, I thought you were just linking to it. I'll clear shit up in a PM.

Wait, what do you mean? I'm not transfinite, I was just linking to it. :p A lot of people besides transfinite itself left dA over it, if that's what you were inferring from...?

There's a few people still viewing this thread so I'll give them a chance to say their piece before I close it I guess?

 

[Medical Meccanica]

Sorry, Kam told me you wrote it. A clear-cut case of secondhand information. Ignore the PM I sent you.

Still want this locked. Didn't mean to insult anyone, and I've got my question answered.