Is Chess a Sport?

[ultraviolet]

I thought that was called Bacci? Is it called Lawn Bowls in Australia?

They're actually two different games! Bacci (or Bocce) is much older and plays slightly differently. Balls in Lawn Bowls are also biased so they roll in a curve, unlike Bocce balls.
I've played both and they're both kinda boring, haha. :V

 

[opaltiger]

Roger Ebert thinks the interactivity of video games makes them not art, because art is a pure expression of the intent of the creator and can't be affected by the viewer, only interpreted. I wouldn't define it that way, but no, by that definition they clearly aren't "art".

Of course, this says nothing real about the merits of video games, just about Roger Ebert's curious definition of "art" - much like the sports question here.

So... what does he think about other kinds of interactive art? Lots of contemporary installations are interactive in one way or another. What about concerts where the performer interacts with the audience?

 

[sovram]

"has an element of chance" is kind of bogus in consideration of, you know, things that are generally accepted to be sports.

such as what? no striking examples come immediately to mind unless you're talking about, like, changes in wind affecting the flight path of a football or something, which I would think is more or less negligible compared to Take Down having a 15% chance of missing or whether or not your paralyzed Pokemon will be able to act this turn

 

[Tailsy]

They're actually two different games! Bacci (or Bocce) is much older and plays slightly differently. Balls in Lawn Bowls are also biased so they roll in a curve, unlike Bocce balls.
I've played both and they're both kinda boring, haha. :V

I can also testify to this - there are a lot of (lawn) bowl clubs in Scotland! They are different games, and both incredibly tedious to watch.

There are a lot of old people here.

 

[Adriane]

such as what? no striking examples come immediately to mind unless you're talking about, like, changes in wind affecting the flight path of a football or something, which I would think is more or less negligible compared to Take Down having a 15% chance of missing or whether or not your paralyzed Pokemon will be able to act this turn

Except you would never use Take Down in competitive Pokémon. Status and criticals are really the only two notable true luck-based elements of standard play, and only criticals are you actually powerless against (ignoring Lucky Chant because the moveslot and duration aren't really worth it for a 6.25% chance of critical). Opting for a higher-power/lower-accuracy (over a 100% accurate move) is on your behalf and not necessary.

Luck elements in sports are less apparent, yes, but weather effects can actually be rather huge, especially in some sports like golf. Tee-off time alone can really screw you over. Also there are reasons players are continuously changing court side in tennis, etc.

 

[sovram]

Except you would never use Take Down in competitive Pokémon. Status and criticals are really the only two notable true luck-based elements of standard play, and only criticals are you actually powerless against (ignoring Lucky Chant because the moveslot and duration aren't really worth it for a 6.25% chance of critical). Opting for a higher-power/lower-accuracy (over a 100% accurate move) is on your behalf and not necessary.

Luck elements in sports are less apparent, yes, but weather effects can actually be rather huge, especially in some sports like golf. Tee-off time alone can really screw you over. Also there are reasons players are continuously changing court side in tennis, etc.

you have a point about move accuracy. I think what I was really trying to say, however, is that chance is actually designed into the game, in the form of criticals and statuses (and accuracy but that is avoidable); weather effects or any other "luck" mechanics aren't "designed" into games like tennis, football/soccer, or chess, other than, say, flipping a coin, which I think is arguably just the (Western?) way of fairly choosing who moves first rather than an important facet of the game itself.

I figure that, with enough practice, skill, and concentration, weather effects can at least be compensated for, while criticals and status effects are always going to be (pseudo)random and there's not a whole lot you can do about it.

 

[Adriane]

you have a point about move accuracy. I think what I was really trying to say, however, is that chance is actually designed into the game, in the form of criticals and statuses (and accuracy but that is avoidable); weather effects or any other "luck" mechanics aren't "designed" into games like tennis, football/soccer, or chess, other than, say, flipping a coin, which I think is arguably just the (Western?) way of fairly choosing who moves first rather than an important facet of the game itself.

This is why I specified competitive Pokémon, where the game is essentially redesigned to make luck a non-issue as much as possible (through move and item bans, etc.). A critical at the wrong time can throw a match for you, true, but it can also be argued that criticals are essential because stalling/defensive tactics would become much more difficult to beat (critical hits ignore defense boosts and attack drops). The vast majority of matches come down to "who played better?"

I figure that, with enough practice, skill, and concentration, weather effects can at least be compensated for, while criticals and status effects are always going to be (pseudo)random and there's not a whole lot you can do about it.

Elaborating on the golf example some, if it's sunny at 10:00 but raining by 13:00 and you tee off at 15:00, you're at a serious disadvantage to those who played in the morning and you have no control over that. What about a college/pro football team based in the south having to fight in snow up north? They can have the best quarterback in the league but it doesn't mean a thing if they aren't used to the cold/snow and (apart from a really really huge snow machine, I guess) there isn't really anything you can do about that, either. Injuries are also huge in many sports. Rules and regulations exist to help prevent and minimise injury, but they still happen and except in the case of a rogue player, tend to happen due to chance.

 

[sovram]

ok you make pretty good points. I concede.