Israeli troops admit they might have gone a little overboard

[Harlequin]

um wait

why does the holocaust entitle you to a country exactly? does this mean gays get a country? I'd like a country. We can call it Penisland or something, idk. The gypsies would like a country, too.

 

[OLD ACCOUNT]

How does the Holocaust justify a completely unrelated country having land taken from it? Especially when that nearly all that land has essentially been absorbed into Israel over the past sixty years?

I never said it was okay to take land from the Palestinians; I said the Jews deserve our own country. One does not, technically, equal the other. Obviously, realistically, it does... but that doesn't mean the Jews don't deserve our own land. The ultimate solution would always be finding a piece of land that isn't occupied by anyone, but since that's impossible, I don't see a solution.

And saying that other countries gained land through war is irrelevant in this day and age, it'd be preferable if we got over the mentality of "I beat you up now that's mine". Forceful takeovers are generally* viewed as a bad thing, you know?

Uh, what? I have no such mentality. My point was why are you picking on Israel when EVERY country has done exactly the same thing. Of course it isn't right, but if EVERY COUNTRY did it it's quite hypocritical to choose only one country from all of them and harass only them. Does anyone yell at the US for taking land from the Native Americans? Not seriously.

Attack those countries then. Oops, they're not as defenseless as Palestine, I'd forgotten.

We were just as defenseless as Palestine when the war happened - even more so, since they had way more territory than us and allies surrounding us everywhere. The reason we attacked Palestine was because they were closest, and we made allies with Egypt (and attempted to make allies with Palestine, but we're all asses so that went to hell). There's no need to attack Iran or Iraq since neither one of us wants eachothers' land.

Wait, so what you're doing now (ie slaughtering Palestine) is inexcusable (true) but expanding your country (by slaughtering Palestine) is awesome? That makes perfect sense!

Jesus effing christ, I never said what we did before was 'awesome'. There are shades of gray, you know? Things aren't always black and white.

And, again, we didn't expand our territory simply because we wanted territory. It was because we were at war, and the only way to defeat our enemy was to take their territory; take theirs, or they take ours. It's a rather easy choice.

Ah yes, I have to experience everything and visit every country to form an opinion on it, thank you for reminding me of The Rule. And I didn't mean physically because yeah Jerusalem looks quite nice but religiously and politically? Christ.

Actually yes I would prefer you experience something yourself before forming an opinion on it. Since other sources are generally... crap.

So every minority who ever got persecuted and slaughtered should get a country? Christ, that's a job and a half, buddy.

Most other minorities DO have a country. o_O Or at least someplace to call their own.

I always found that weird too, but apparently either the Muslims got it wrong or that particular hill is special or something.
Genuine question: why can't anyone rebuild the temple? Is there some kind of fixed condition for it to be built again or something?

I'm not sure, uh... I think it's meant to be rebuilt by the Messiah when he comes, or just magically rebuilt. And rebuilding it before than is... blasphemous? *shrugs*

um wait

why does the holocaust entitle you to a country exactly? does this mean gays get a country? I'd like a country. We can call it Penisland or something, idk. The gypsies would like a country, too.

Because if we have our own country, if another holocaust happens then we can flee here instead of trying to flee to other places and being kicked out/rejected.

And if it were up to me, sure. o_O (there are gay women too though so penisland isn't really a great name.)

 

[GameFreakerZero]

The ultimate solution would always be finding a piece of land that isn't occupied by anyone, but since that's impossible, I don't see a solution.

Get land as compensation from the dudes who actually caused the Holocaust or from the countries who were so keen on getting the Jews a country in the first place? I don't see why a random country in the Middle East needs to be dragged into it.

Oh right. Jerusalem. US wanting a buddy in the Middle East. Britain wanting Palestine off its hands.

Of course it isn't right, but if EVERY COUNTRY did it it's quite hypocritical to choose only one country from all of them and harass only them. Does anyone yell at the US for taking land from the Native Americans? Not seriously.

Yes because not mentioning countries completely irrelevant to the discussion just to verify we think colonialism and invasion of other countries are bull shit means we approve of them.

You want me to go on a big rant about how the British Empire, and the general colonial attitude of Europe as a whole, was complete bull shit that majorly fucked up just about every place in the world it went to, leading to oppression, segregation and the destruction of culture and entire races, as shown especially well in the colonisation of the Northern parts of the Americas regarding the mass extinctions of races like the Aztecs and the diminution of other parts of the Native American population, and the effects of which are still felt to this day?

Oh right, we're talking about Israel in this thread, silly me.

And, again, we didn't expand our territory simply because we wanted territory. It was because we were at war, and the only way to defeat our enemy was to take their territory; take theirs, or they take ours. It's a rather easy choice.

Yeah but most land Israel took from countries that weren't Palestine were given back, like that gigantic region of Egypt, Sinai, Israel gained in one of the wars. Meanwhile Palestine has slowly been diminishing over the years, as evidenced by VPLJ's maps.

 

[OLD ACCOUNT]

Get land as compensation from the dudes who actually caused the Holocaust or from the countries who were so keen on getting the Jews a country in the first place? I don't see why a random country in the Middle East needs to be dragged into it.

I don't really see how it's Israel's fault that Germany didn't give us any land?

Yes because not mentioning countries completely irrelevant to the discussion just to verify we think colonialism and invasion of other countries are bull shit means we approve of them.

You want me to go on a big rant about how the British Empire, and the general colonial attitude of Europe as a whole, was complete bull shit that majorly fucked up just about every place in the world it went to, leading to oppression, segregation and the destruction of culture and entire races, as shown especially well in the colonisation of the Northern parts of the Americas regarding the mass extinctions of races like the Aztecs and the diminution of other parts of the Native American population, and the effects of which are still felt to this day?

Oh right, we're talking about Israel in this thread, silly me.

Uh, no. Does it have to be one or the other? Geez. How 'bout instead of either ranting about everything or ranting about nothing, you just - I don't know - decide not to act as if Israel is the only nation that ever took land during war.

Yeah but most land Israel took from countries that weren't Palestine were given back, like that gigantic region of Egypt, Sinai, Israel gained in one of the wars. Meanwhile Palestine has slowly been diminishing over the years, as evidenced by VPLJ's maps.

That's because those countries were willing to allow us to keep the land we didn't return. Palestine, however, isn't content with getting just some land; they want all or nothing. So there isn't really any point, is there?

Like when we offered them several million dollars, and they said they'd only be satisfied when all the Jews are dead? Or when we gave the Gaza and the replied by continuing to bomb us (and seriously you have NO IDEA how much giving away Gaza infuriated the everyone I knew, it was like a civil war or something; imagine giving away, uh, Manchester to France. People would not be happy).

 

[GameFreakerZero]

I don't really see how it's Israel's fault that Germany didn't give us any land?

I don't really see how it's Palestine's fault that the Holocaust happened.

Uh, no. Does it have to be one or the other? Geez. How 'bout instead of either ranting about everything or ranting about nothing, you just - I don't know - decide not to act as if Israel is the only nation that ever took land during war.

And you completely miss my point. Thanks.

My point was that it should not be necessary to have to explain my feelings about other invasions and colonisations in the past and present because the subject matter is about Israel. It should be fairly evident from the fact we're against Israel's actions that we'd feel equally the same about similar actions other countries have perpetrated.

Just because others have done it doesn't mean it's an all right thing to do.

That's because those countries were willing to allow us to keep the land we didn't return. Palestine, however, isn't content with getting just some land; they want all or nothing. So there isn't really any point, is there?

Iirc Fatah was willing to subside with Gaza, and I'm sure most Palestinians would be fine with being given back the land they originally had allocated to them by the UN. Just because a group speaks the loudest doesn't mean they're the most populous.

(and seriously you have NO IDEA how much giving away Gaza infuriated the everyone I knew, it was like a civil war or something; imagine giving away, uh, Manchester to France. People would not be happy).

Surely a better analogy would be, let's say France was given half of England by Japan and China. After a number of wars with Scotland, Wales and Ireland over ideological differences and refusal to recognise France's half of England as a state, France had managed to absorb all of England. After over a half a century of fighting for their land, the English are given Manchester.

Please stop assuming people are saying Israel is the only invasive force they disagree with when you talk about Israel as if it's always been there and the Palestinians are the ones invading.

 

[OLD ACCOUNT]

I don't really see how it's Palestine's fault that the Holocaust happened.

It isn't, and of it's unfair or whatever but it isn't the Jews' fault either. We asked for land and were given this.

And you completely miss my point. Thanks.

My point was that it should not be necessary to have to explain my feelings about other invasions and colonisations in the past and present because the subject matter is about Israel. It should be fairly evident from the fact we're against Israel's actions that we'd feel equally the same about similar actions other countries have perpetrated.

Just because others have done it doesn't mean it's an all right thing to do.

I never said it was an alright thing to do. I'm not using the 'everyone else did it' excuse, so please stop acting like I am.

Things are never 'fairly obvious', especially not in these types of discussions. I don't know about other people but I don't just assume things, though it seems you assumed that I would. Sorry to disappoint?

Iirc Fatah was willing to subside with Gaza, and I'm sure most Palestinians would be fine with being given back the land they originally had allocated to them by the UN. Just because a group speaks the loudest doesn't mean they're the most populous.

But if Fatah wasn't doing anything to stop Hamas, how's that helping us? Hamas was bombing us, so...

Please stop assuming people are saying Israel is the only invasive force they disagree with when you talk about Israel as if it's always been there and the Palestinians are the ones invading.

To Israelis, Israel has always has been here. You must realize that to the Jews, Israel has always belonged to us, since Biblical times; when the Palestinians had it, it was just 'temporary' or until God gave it back or wtfever. Whether it's correct or not that they use religion as a reason or whatever, that's how it is. Religion is crazy but it isn't going anywhere.

 

[Felidire]

Sorry if I overlooked something, but why is it that they all can't just simply share the whole thing as one country? Pride? Ego? ..the misguided belief that their lord would want them to blast the living shit out of other humans, (which he supposedly created) in order for one group of people to have this land & be closer to him than the other ones?

now we need to fight to uproot the gentiles who interfere with re-conquering the Holy Land."

We asked for land and were given this.

That was awesome, made me lol. ,,xD

To Israelis, Israel has always has been here. You must realize that to the Jews, Israel has always belonged to us, since Biblical times; when the Palestinians had it, it was just 'temporary' or until God gave it back or wtfever. Whether it's correct or not that they use religion as a reason or whatever, that's how it is. Religion is crazy but it isn't going anywhere.

They've always been there? ..How long ago was it that Judaism began?

"Indigenous" Australian peoples have apparently lived over here for near 70,000 years, and despite the fact that we killed them and treated them shittily(lol) when we moved in, I don't see them firing missiles(or lolspears) at us.

All they do is run around, graffiti, and break things. <3

 

[Vladimir Putin's LJ]

Palestine is not and has not been attacking you over the past years, ever.
Hamas are doing all the attacking. Hamas are not related to the Palestinian government in any way, shape or form.

I'll reply in more detail later but right I've got a train to catch :v

EDIT: and no the Palestinian government can't really do anything about it right now on account of the fact that they have half a million things to worry about in the remnants of their own country before they take care of groups attacking other countries (this is pre-emptive, I'm not blind and retarded yet).

 

[GameFreakerZero]

It isn't, and of it's unfair or whatever but it isn't the Jews' fault either. We asked for land and were given this.

The Jews were given half of it and then proceeded to devour nearly all of the rest of Palestine into itself.

At this point, I doubt anyone's seriously going to suggest Israel cease to exist, for fairly obvious reasons, but I think the majority of people who're against Israel's actions just want Palestine restored to the amount of land the UN gave it sixty or so years ago.

I never said it was an alright thing to do. I'm not using the 'everyone else did it' excuse, so please stop acting like I am.

While I'll admit I did slightly misunderstand your point, and that what I said was a bit presumptuous, I'd ask you to stop trying to diminish the issue by saying everyone else did it. Not only are unrelated countries actions irrelevant to the discussion, most people here would say the exact same thing about similar situations if they happened in other countries.

Complaining that we're picking on Israel in a discussion about Israel's relations with Palestine is redundant. Reasons for yelling at Israel are evident in the first post.

But if Fatah wasn't doing anything to stop Hamas, how's that helping us? Hamas was bombing us, so...

How is it Fatah's fault that extremists were going and killing Israelis when they were trying to negotiate peace?