Meat Eating

[departuresong]

I know there was a topic on vegetarianism is a while back, but I didn't think it was worthy of being revived.

Please vote on the poll above and discuss your opinion on the consumption of meat. I'll withhold any kind of argument until a discussion begins.

(EDIT: If all you're going to post is something along the lines of "It tastes good." or "I like it." or "It's natural." kindly refrain from doing so. Go ahead and mention it in a larger post, but I would ask that you please avoid making posts like this one.)

 

[Zuu]

I don't really "embrace" it but I don't think it's evil either.

 

[hopeandjoy]

Meat is not obtained ethically very often, and that needs to change. However, meat is eaten by many animals, and are we going to try to stop them? No. Besides, although you can obtain protein from other sources, it creates a more diverse diet which ultimately leads to better health.

So, I don't agree with how we normally get our meat, but I still eat it.

 

[Blastoise Fortooate]

I'd be a vegetarian if meat didn't taste so good.

 

[Zuu]

Oh, in terms of our obtaining of meat particularly in the US, yeah that's pretty damned evil.

But the actual consumption of it isn't. I see that as a beautiful transference of life that happens no matter what you eat.

edit: beautiful on a base level; I don't think nomming a cheeseburger is beautiful

 

[Tarvos]

Where is the: I eat meat because I like it but I don't always eat meat because it's good for the environment option

 

[Zuu]

Yeah, I had to refrain from voting. :P

 

[Zhorken]

These options are worded awfully and polls don't go well on debate threads anyway.

Some meat tastes great and I eat it. Yes, it's terrible how some people raise meat animals. I'll likely go out of my way to avoid such meat once I pay for my own food.

If there's some reason you fundamentally don't like the idea of eating animals, great. Go ahead. Share your views with others, even, but don't be an ass about it; you only end up making vegetarians as a whole look a little bad, and that stacks. There is some general perception that vegetarians in general are like that, though I'm not sure how strong it is.

Of course, meat-eaters who go "YEAAAAAAAH I'M A CARNIVORE" are also obnoxious and people don't generally seem to mind them as much. That does suck.

EDIT: There's also the fact that it takes a lot more energy to get meat to the point where we eat it than it does to get plants there. That, as an argument, interests me more but we put a ton of energy into other luxury things too so it doesn't really bother me. Though I suppose I don't know how much of a difference it really is....

 

[departuresong]

Okay, so if it isn't obvious enough from any previous posts on this forum, I'm a pretty hardcore vegetarian. I've been off of meat for about two months now.

Meat is not obtained ethically very often, and that needs to change.

Is there really a way to ethically kill enough animals to feed the human population?

However, meat is eaten by many animals, and are we going to try to stop them?

This isn't about other animals. This is about humanity: a species very capable of defying nature's less appealing qualities in the name of ethics.

Besides, although you can obtain protein from other sources, it creates a more diverse diet which ultimately leads to better health.

On the contrary, I'm finding that my diet has been expanding ever since I ate my last piece of chicken. A common thing people ask me is "What the hell do you eat if you can't eat meat?" The answer is anything I want. We have meat substitutes that taste very similar and are more beneficial for your health. If anybody (and I don't mean you specifically, Ketsu) believes that cutting meat from your diet means you have to sacrifice flavor, diversity, and nourishment, they are so far from wrong it's ludicrous.

And that's the thing that I've slowly begun to realize: there really isn't any reason to eat meat. It does more harm than it does good. The moral and environmental drawbacks are tremendous; there are also plenty of foods to give you the protein and nutrients you need without jacking up your risk of various life-threatening diseases.

(The health aspect is a really big one for me. If you want more information, I highly suggest reading this article, namely the section titled "The Human Health Toll.")

I'll ask a moderator to remove the poll. My apologies for not making it comprehensive.

 

[ultraviolet]

I eat meat. My ex-boyfriend doesn't, though, unless it's an animal from his own farm because he knows it's been treated humanely throughout its life and that it was healthy before it was eaten.

Personally, I'd like to become vegetarian, but I'm not at the moment because I'm still at home and mum doesn't particularly like me cooking. >:| Mostly I'd like to because I think it would be beneficial if I did it properly, and I really don't approve of the meat business.

 

[Dannichu]

(I apologise in advance - it's physically impossible for me to talk about meat eating without coming off as incredibly arrogant, so I'll just have to ask that you don't judge me too much)

I've been a vegetarian for years (and try and have at least two vegan days a week) for a whole host of reasons; most of them - I don't like the taste of meat, I don't feel comfortable eating dead animals - apply personally to me (as in, I'd choose the "I'm vegetarian, but don't care what anyone else does" option), but recently, after getting more and more into environmentalism, I'm more of the mentality that eating produced meat is selfish and people shouldn't do it, simply because of the horrendous things it does to the environment and various people around the planet.
As the sign one guy at the big climate change protest in London recently said, "You can't eat meat and care about the environment".

Sure, if you go out with your gun and kill a deer in your nearby forest, take it home and eat it, it's not harming the environment in any serious way, but with methane and such gases produced by farm animals being ten times the greenhouse gas carbon is, coupled with the obscene amounts of energy used to both raise (I think everyone knows the statistic that ten times more land is needed to grow meat than veg - chilling when one considers how much of the world's population is starving) and transport (despite the fact that Wales has a big lamb industry, most people in the UK get their lamb from NZ because it's cheaper, even if it means flying it around the world), ethically sourcing meat is nigh-on impossible.
To use my hunted-deer example above, you'd still need to use energy to cook it; there's a large number of vegetarian/vegan dishes that don't require any cooking at all, but if you don't cook your meat, you're at a serious risk of food poisoning.

Basically, what ShiningGlass said about there being no good reason to eat meat. The "because it's tasty" argument, to me, sounds a lot like the guy in the massive SUV that does one mile to the gallon saying he does so "because I can".

(sorrysorrysorry ><)

 

[Effigy of the Forgotten]

I've been a veggie all my life, not for any particular ethical reasons, but because meat tastes fucking vile to me, to the point where if I eat some (whether this be cos veggie food and none veggie food got mixed up or because I was just hungry enough to try some meat) I get gag reflexes in my throat and am sometimes properly sick :S it's the same for most meat, though oddly enough not fish, don't really know why haha

 

[glitchedgamer]

Eating meat is just another way of getting energy. That's how I look at it. It's a natural occurance for animals to eat other animals. Yes, I know humans have a choice, but there's nothing unnatural about it.

I actually know several vegetarians and one vegan. Most of them say they just don't like the taste of meat, the others say it's for more moral reasons.

 

[#1 bro]

I was a vegetarian for like three years before I realized that it was dumb.

Animals are not people. This is something that vegetarians don't fully realize, I think. Animals have nothing to live for, except for eating and sleeping and maybe having sex. Animals do not have emotions, or at least none beyond the most primitive of the primitive. If I kill an animal in a way to ensure that it does not suffer, the animal is unharmed. Yes, unharmed. Sure, now the animal is dead, but of course being dead is not painful. You're just... dead. Contrast with the act of killing a human, in which the enormous potential the human had for the rest of his/her life is now completely lost. But an animal has no potential to do anything much - it's an animal. Additionally, there are no grieving animal widows, contrary to what Bambi might have you believe.

Basically, the way I see it, animal rights are kind of a weird, misguided idea perpetuated by people who identify really strongly with their cats, or people that watched too many talking animal cartoons as a kid, or people who spend a lot of time outdoors with birds and such... you know, "animal lovers". These people, it seems, know in the back of their mind that animals don't really have any capacity for emotion or rational thought, but still have deluded themselves into thinking something like, I don't know, that their cat is attempting to communicate coherent messages with its meows. And okay. There's nothing wrong with a bit of make believe, it doesn't really affect me. But when these people affect politics with their misguided ideals, it really bothers me. People should not be donating money to stop dogs from getting euthanized by animal shelters, or stopping people from dumping oil in the ocean and killing fish, when that money could go to helping all the starving people in Africa, or child laborers in foreign countries, or victims of genocides. You know, humans in peril. I really think we should first make sure that all the humans can live more comfortably, then we can move on to animals. And of course, this will never happen.

Sure, there's no real reason to eat meat, other than the most shallow excuse of "it tastes good". We could all go without the delicious, mouth-watering, succulent, taste and use some other method of getting our protein. But there's also no reason not to. When one becomes a vegetarian, they are not doing so because they believe that their actions will have a tangible effect. One more person not eating meat will not somehow decrease meat production, or bring animals back to life. No, they are doing so because they believe that the movement to make as many people as possible vegetarian, and thus, decrease the amount of killed animals, is a fruitful one. Maybe they hope that their vegetarianism will influence others, or perhaps they just feel like eating meat isn't consistent with their philosophy. (Or maybe they're Hindu.)

But the vegetarian movement is not worth following. Human lives are worth infinitely more than animal lives. And even if the vegetarians win, and in a hundred years no single person on planet Earth eats meat, then what have we really accomplished? Animals will still be killed all the time. In their natural environments by predators, by you when you accidentally step on a bug, by you when you set up traps in your house to kill mice, by hunters when it is deemed that a certain species' population is too high, by harvesting equipment that collects grain to eat, etc. Humans will always be killing animals, and more importantly, we will probably always be killing other humans. The latter is what we should focus our efforts on stopping.


edit: wow this post is really fucking long/poorly written

edit 2: also, any vegetarian who claims that meat substitutes are just as good as the real thing is a liar (or somehow has defective taste buds). those things are disgusting. even when i was a vegetarian i got by on eating mostly fruit and dairy and such.

 

[departuresong]

Eating meat is just another way of getting energy.

...that causes the environment to wither, is relatively unhealthy, and involves inhumane treatment of animals (in most cases).

It's a natural occurance for animals to eat other animals. Yes, I know humans have a choice, but there's nothing unnatural about it.

I hate the way "natural" is always inevitably thrown around in this debate. Your indoor plumbing isn't natural. Computers and keyboards aren't natural. You're a human: you can decide things for yourself instead of letting nature dictate. Quit holding yourself to such a low standard. Whether something is natural or not is completely irrelevant.

@Zeta Reticuli: I don't have time to respond to your whole post now, but do look at Dannichu's points about the environment. Surely you can't be so quick to cast that point aside.

 

[glitchedgamer]

...that causes the environment to wither, is relatively unhealthy, and involves inhumane treatment of animals (in most cases).

I hate the way "natural" is always inevitably thrown around in this debate. Your indoor plumbing isn't natural. Computers and keyboards aren't natural. You're a human: you can decide things for yourself instead of letting nature dictate. Quit holding yourself to such a low standard. Whether something is natural or not is completely irrelevant.
.

...Damn. You really know how to shoot someone down. I'm not letting nature dictate. I CHOOSE to eat meat, and it just happens that it is also part of nature.

 

[departuresong]

I understand that you choose to eat meat. I'm still perplexed about why. Zeta made some really good points that I'm going to respond to eventually, but the impact people have on the world by letting practices of meat companies prosper is disturbing.

 

[#1 bro]

on the environment:

To be honest I hadn't heard very much about the environmental implications of raising livestock until today. No vegetarian I know, when asked why they chose to adopt the diet they do, would say "because I want to reduce greenhouse gases" or whatever. They'd say something about animal rights. (Or, well, "because I'm Hindu"). These facts suggest to me that the environment is not really the major issue at stake, and this aspect of the debate is just a way for vegetarians to say "look, meat-eaters, it's not just philisophical - there's this too".

Either way, I don't know what percentage of greenhouse gases are caused by the meat industry, but it can't be that much, right? I mean, today it's almost like anything and everything is contributing to global warming. But it would require a massive change in the zeitgeist for everyone in America, much less the whole world, to stop eating meat, and therefore it seems like it would be a much more productive use of environmental activists' time to attempt to get big corporations to cut down on their carbon emissions, or get everyone to buy a hybrid car, or something. In fact, we only adopted cars like 120 years ago, it seems like it would be more productive to rally against cars themselves than to rally against the meat industry!

I CHOOSE to eat meat, and it just happens that it is also part of nature.

this is kind of a dumb thing to say. one could also say "I CHOOSE to rape women, and it just happens that it is also part of nature."

 

[Zuu]

I don't understand what environmental ramifications eating meat has. Raising animals on a large scale, perhaps. But not eating meat. Explain?

Also, you not eating meat isn't going to keep the meat industry from filling our atmosphere with animal gas so I don't understand that point.

Totally respect your decision though. I was a vegetarian for like two months then was like "okay this is too much trouble as a sixteen year old living with his parents".

 

[Simon Harron]

I eat meat and I love it, mostly chicken. But I also eat vegetarian food, like veggie burgers and the like. I would like to eat less meat for health and economic reasons (though my meat diet only rarely includes red meats), but as I see it, we have the ability to take nourishment from animals, so why not take advantage of that?

I do hate how animals get treated on some farms, with the crowded cages, poor diets and the like. Even "free range" technically means, as defined by the FDA, that the animal get to spend "some time" out of its cage, but it's not specified how long. That means an animal can have all of five minutes out of every day to run around.

The thing is, an animal that is treated and fed well in life tastes better when butchered and cooked (extreme example: kobe beef). Shouldn't that be the goal with food: the farmer who produces the better-tasting chickens sells more? But whatever.

I suggest that everyone try bacon on veggie burgers: it's delicious!