Pokémafia - Super Mystery Dungeon

[Herbe]

(i didn't go double check my pm before talking about stuff and i dismissed astronomer as flavor stuff since i didn't recognize it and register it as A Role Name... it's Expedition Society Astronomer so i really did just read it as flavor.) also for the record if i was fakeclaiming/mafia this would be the worst most panicked lying i've ever done where i really wouldn't have that much reason to panic with an entire day ahead of me and not that serious of a push on me

like seriously i am just completely fucking floundering but that's borne from me telling the truth in a scattered not-well-planned-out way tbh.... which we will all see confirmed when i flip town/talk in the postgame. aurgh. like i know none of this is a good defense i am some degree of self aware

anyway rnp is lying about something. increasingly suspicious this really is payback for PLA. unvote bc i think keeping him and me alive is worth the solve for tomorrow (and hey if i survive i have an additional lore drop which would be confirmed when y'all kill me tomorrow and i flip town)

 

[RNP]

Beware not bloodied blade alone:
But the quartz lens marred with infectious stone.
Beware the truth that the rock doth kill:
And "good news" is a herald for the ill.

i don't doubt that this was a part of herbe's role pm but herbe you do know that a) the way characters "die" in smd is by turning to stone, which was lined out in the sign-up post, and b) quartz lenses are used for telescopes which an astronomer would have

did... did you just post your flavor, herbe.

 

[Herbe]

Beware not bloodied blade alone:
But the quartz lens marred with infectious stone.
Beware the truth that the rock doth kill:
And "good news" is a herald for the ill.

i don't doubt that this was a part of herbe's role pm but herbe you do know that a) the way characters "die" in smd is by turning to stone, which was lined out in the sign-up post, and b) quartz lenses are used for telescopes which an astronomer would have

did... did you just post your flavor, herbe.

if i did zori would have modkilled me or will modkill me. i asked and she said i could post my poem result verbatim but like. no i didn't know that and no i didn't remember reading that in the sign up post because i am bad at paying attention to things.

I also think that that could indicate that i was poisoned by someone this night

 

[Herbe]

it wasn't part of my role pm !! it was a result from last night !!

 

[Herbe]

i feel like i'm watching myself crash a car in a dream and the steering wheel isn't working.

 

[qenya]

incidentally @haneko you haven't posted yet! and @Zero Moment @qenya y'all haven't posted since the start of the day! I'm interested to hear the three of y'all's thoughts on this

i have been awork, sorry! but i have tomorrow off so i can make it to the end of the Day without any other hiatuses (hiati?)

it's probably just as well i was absent though since it was an absolute rollercoaster reading this page with RNP and Herbe dripfeeding info about their roles... i think i would have jumped to a hasty and wrong conclusion if I'd only had half of it to go on.

anyway. fundamentally - RNP and Herbe are contradicting each other, right? RNP says his role only informs his targets if they would be killing someone that night; Herbe says they were informed of the targeting even though they weren't killing anyone. so either one of them is lying or a third person is fucking with them (which I think we can assume implies a scum role since otherwise they would have cleared it up by now? proooobably?)

i don't see how Herbe could be lying because RNP had already explained his role before Herbe came in-thread, so if they had tried to kill someone N0 they could just have... not mentioned receiving the message. RNP lying to frame Herbe seems weird too, though, because his deception would be immediately obvious as soon as Herbe flipped green; I think the only situation where it would make sense is if the mafia were confident about being able to win immediately on N1 or otherwise protecting RNP from the D2 vote somehow.

so that leaves the "third role shenangians" option. but i'm having trouble with that too because I have no idea what that could be. it can't just be some kind of redirector because Herbe was not, in fact, roleblocked. the only thing I can think of is a role that causes someone's night action to announce itself to its targets for the duration of that night, used on RNP. but it seems like quite a stretch to have two roles that would naturally interfere with each other like that in an 8-person setup... (Eifie's voice echoes: "stop doing setup spec")

so yeah that was a lot of words to say i am undecided so far. i will mull it over some more.

 

[qenya]

biggest point, I think, is that a poisoner is basically certainly not going to try to start a yeet train on their poison target. so I think that says for sure that RNP is not a poisoner (and is not ingroup mafia with someone else who is a poisoner, not that that's exactly relevant to this debate)

IF herbe's poem is real, that does point to a poisoner existing, though, so in the hypothetical world that herbe's poem is real, that would indicate that either the hypo!notRNP!poisoner is 3p and we separately have a blocked/healed mafia kill that we don't know about, or the hypo!notRNP!poisoner is mafia which clears RNP from being mafia (he could still be 3p but shrug who knows)

oh and yeah agree with all of this (except i don't think a third-party player is likely with only 8 players; I know zori said survivors might exist in the signup thread, but in her shoes that's one of the first i'd cut if downsizing from 10 players to 8)

 

[Zero Moment]

tbh I feel like Herbe's roleposting is too detailed to be born from the aether (and if not, good job!) so I don't feel any inclination to vote for them.
On the other hand I feel like RNP's shtick has gotten stale and I'm kinda lowkey peeved about This Shit Happening Again. Not enough to put forth a vote but like.

 

[RNP]

I have been helpfully informed that despite language indicating to the contrary, my role will inform a player of my visit regardless of whether they were attempting a kill. I will consider the further ramifications of this revelation while performing duties at my place of employment.

 

[qenya]

 

[Novae]

traditional mafia gaming i see

 

[Novae]

Zero Moment

hello

 

[Novae]

unvote

nvm i'm gonna try reengaging again later

 

[Herbe]

I have been helpfully informed that despite language indicating to the contrary, my role will inform a player of my visit regardless of whether they were attempting a kill. I will consider the further ramifications of this revelation while performing duties at my place of employment.

fascinating development and i don’t think you’d be incentivized to do this here if you were W so i townread you now that i have no reason to think youre mechlying

i do still think there’s a poisoner out there fwiw which would explain no kill tonight

 

[haneko]

hi everyone, just trying to wrap my head around herbe/rnp-posting sorry if i am not particularly active, but i definitely want to try to understand the game more than i did last time.

TL;DR I'm more inclined to believe Herbe than RNP

Herbe is putting up a contradictory claim; they're claiming oracle, which would lack a kill action

The roles in this game seem pretty non-traditional to me; I wouldn't rule out an oracle having the ability to kill, or block, or anything else.

On the topic of Herbe, I think the only thing we can gain from the poem right now is that there's a poisoner around. "Quartz lens" does seem most likely to belong to Herbe the astronomer, tbh, but it could also just be flavour?

My thoughts on the poem:

Beware not bloodied blade alone: = Mafia nightkills aren't the only way to die

But the quartz lens marred with infectious stone. =
This is the most ambiguous line to me. If RNP is a poisoner, and the quartz lens symbolises Herbe - the astronomer - this could symbolise Herbe getting poisoned.

Beware the truth that the rock doth kill: = People who die are "turned to stone"
And "good news" is a herald for the ill. = People who get visited will get poisoned.

Based on the last two lines it seems like getting turned to rock is a slow process... that seems consistent with the effects of poisoners being delayed. And if Herbe wrote this himself, then, of course it's consistent with his claims... but the level of desperation in his posts seems like he's not lying.

I have been helpfully informed that despite language indicating to the contrary, my role will inform a player of my visit regardless of whether they were attempting a kill.

This seems like 1) an easy thing to make up, 2) very fishy from a gameplay perspective; since I can't see how that would help a town!roleblocker!RNP stay alive... RNP, do you get informed whether or not your roleblock has succeeded the same night you perform the block, or do you have to wait until the day?

Targets being informed of a visit feels a lot more appropriate for a poisoner since it would set up breadcrumbs for villagers to catch a hostile role.

Placing a vote on RNP for Pressure (tm)

 

[haneko]

Oh yeah, the other meanings to the 2nd line of the poem i could think of were:

• Herbe has the ability to perform kills - maybe his lens can turn people to stone? I feel like there's less evidence for this than RNP the poisoner
• There is somebody with a role that gives people contagious stone - so like, if their target interacts with somebody else, that somebody else gets turned to stone, or something like that. (if anyone has played SMD and knows lore that confirms this please say)
• I just feel like infectious is a really weird way to describe stone.
• Quartz lens could refer to someone other than Herbe... maybe there's a Diancie/Carbink in our midst?

 

[Herbe]

And "good news" is a herald for the ill. = People who get visited will get poisoned.

you've got a good potential take on this for sure but i did think that this was a reference to the "good news guys" daystart meme although it could definitely be deeper than that

 

[RNP]

targets being informed of a visit for a poisoner equals a dead poisoner d2

 

[RNP]

And if Herbe wrote this himself,

themself

 

[Herbe]

i mean sure yeah but that's only if a) the person connects the dots (and normally people wouldn't be given the poem w the info cause that's my role) and b) the person says something in the thread about it and c) town correctly connects that to the death the next night/doesn't attribute it to other things

no longer accusing you of poisoner fwiw