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Religion

Has anyone ever seen Religulous? I haven't seen it, though I've seen snippets, and there's one bit I liked quite a bit...

He was talking to a U.S. senator, I believe. And Bill Maher started... (roughly, from memory) "Some people believe that there will be an apocalypse... specifically, the Rapture, in which the earth will be destroyed and life will be ended... do you believe that such an event will occur? And sometime soon?"
"Yes, I do."
"Well... don't you think that'll erase all motivation to do something about the conditions now?"
"..."
 
Zeta Reticuli said:
Why is this true and "religion doesn't hurt a goddamn thing, people do" isn't?
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My prime reason is that religion is inherently intellectually dishonest. Knowledge is a good thing, so false knowledge is a bad thing.

Besides that, the very notions of heaven and monotheism lead to xenophobia and segregation.

Note that I am considering the effect religion has on a religious person, as distinct from the effect a religious person has on other people. I don't see a whole lot of grand healing effects religion has directly on people. Most often I just hear that "God helped me through X", which doesn't seem to mean much of anything and still means that someone needed a delusion to get over some problem.
 
... I guess so, but surely those things would exist even without religion? It seems to me that religion does not give people reasons to do wicked things as much as it helps justify reasons people already have.
 
No see I mentioned these two aspects specifically because they encourage divisiveness. They create an artificial us-vs-them that would not exist without religion.
 
I still think that people would find reasons to be xenophobic even without religion. Instead of "hey, those guys over in the east worship Zeus! that's blasphemy!" and "hey, those guys in the west deny Zeus, those heathens!" you would have "hey, those guys in the east have arranged marriages, what weirdos!" and "hey, those guys in the west are allowed to marry whoever they want, those anarchists!" and etc.
 
Religion isn't the root of all evil, but causes a lot of it.

On a related note: I still think it's strange that people see knowledge as something inherently good... *prod Harlequin and Eevee*
 
On a related note: I still think it's strange that people see knowledge as something inherently good... *prod Harlequin and Eevee*
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Meh, can't answer for them, but I'll throw my own two cents in.

Knowing stuff is good. There's practical good that can come of it; certain types of knowledge can make peoples' lives better directly, like medicine or chemistry. Even knowledge with not such apparent practical use is good, since using knowledge instead of not knowing things means that you're able to discover new knowledge with practical use. Logic and reason as opposed to superstition is a better state of mind to be in.

I've never really felt a need to justify the pursuit of knowledge, though I suppose that if I don't justify it, it's no better than religion.
 
Zeta Reticuli said:
I still think that people would find reasons to be xenophobic even without religion. Instead of "hey, those guys over in the east worship Zeus! that's blasphemy!" and "hey, those guys in the west deny Zeus, those heathens!" you would have "hey, those guys in the east have arranged marriages, what weirdos!" and "hey, those guys in the west are allowed to marry whoever they want, those anarchists!" and etc.
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Well yes obviously, and those do happen even now (when religion exists), but religious intolerance is yet another thing that causes dicrimination (and a lot of it). If religion didn't exist, there'd be less discrimination, and a lot less problems. Look at all the wars caused by religion. All the murders. It's ridiculous.
 
Music Dragon said:
Religion isn't the root of all evil, but causes a lot of it.

On a related note: I still think it's strange that people see knowledge as something inherently good... *prod Harlequin and Eevee*
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The only reason knowledge could not be good is if it is something that makes you unhappy. But ask yourself the question: do you want a society that is happy because it is blind to its own flaws and has been deluded to believe that everything is right, or do you want a happy society that is happy because it has battled to overcome its flaws and has none because it knew what the flaws were?

Knowledge always makes you happier. People say that ignorance is bliss, but this is so fervently untrue it's almost a crime. Knowledge allows us to treat each other better with the methods that we have. It's that simple.
 
Mm... I still don't agree. Knowledge is often a good thing, but not always.

Personally, I believe that happiness is the only thing that really matters. Knowledge is good insofar as it can be used to further the well-being of people. Certain kinds of knowledge do more harm than good. Ignorance is rarely bliss when it comes to the truly important things, but...
 
Vladimir Putin's LJ said:
Well yes obviously, and those do happen even now (when religion exists), but religious intolerance is yet another thing that causes dicrimination (and a lot of it). If religion didn't exist, there'd be less discrimination, and a lot less problems. Look at all the wars caused by religion. All the murders. It's ridiculous.
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I agree with this. What I think I'm trying to say is that there are two things we should all be able to agree on:

a) Religion should not be blamed for all our problems
b) Good things and bad things come from religion, and good things and bad things come from atheism
 
Yes, do tell us what bad things stem from atheism. And make sure to back up your claims with sources, I'm tired of calling bullshit on every single argument.

For the record, withholding knowledge is quite an evil thing. Knowledge itself is pretty much only good.
 
I'm not going to go out and find sources, but I believe that religious people are more likely to do things not in their own self-interest, under the assumption that they'll one day be rewarded somehow. For example, Christians are more likely to give to charity than atheists, Christians are more likely to join the army than atheists, etc.
 
Zeta Reticuli said:
I'm not going to go out and find sources, but I believe that religious people are more likely to do things not in their own self-interest, under the assumption that they'll one day be rewarded somehow. For example, Christians are more likely to give to charity than atheists, Christians are more likely to join the army than atheists, etc.
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I think white people are more likely to give to charity than black people. Source? I don't need a source, I just believe that white people are more likely to do things not in their own self-interest!

You know, if you'd given a source for this maybe I wouldn't have taken this so personally, but the fact you believe this baselessly is really quite a horrible thing; disbelief in a deity does not make you a dick, neither does belief in one.
 
If anyone here truly believes that knowledge is an inherently good thing, then they should go watch Ibsen's The Wild Duck. Tragic story, but very thought-provoking...!

Zeta Reticuli said:
I'm not going to go out and find sources, but I believe that religious people are more likely to do things not in their own self-interest, under the assumption that they'll one day be rewarded somehow. For example, Christians are more likely to give to charity than atheists, Christians are more likely to join the army than atheists, etc.
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Religious people may have more of an incentive to act "altruistically", so to speak - but in reality, I don't think this makes much of a difference. Sure, somewhere out there, there are probably a couple of benevolent Christians who donate generously to charity. Then again, there are probably a couple of benevolent non-Christians who donate generously to charity.
 
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