Trainer Class Pokéchoice Mafia - Game Thread

[Eifie]

Re: Trainer Class Pokéchoice Mafia - Game Thread

To continue The Eifie Show (sorry): I forgot to mention it yesterday but that bit where Superbird said he'd somehow gotten information that hopeandjoy is innocent was really bothering me. hopeandjoy apparently knew nothing about it (so no Friendly Neighbour power or anything) and nobody has said that they have any power like that, or gotten any similar information. And like, if someone has some sort of power that tells a random innocent (or maybe a person of their choice) about another random innocent... why use it only once, and if it just happened to be one-use, why not claim afterward, and why pick Superbird over... okay, I don't know who appears very innocent, really. It feels very strange, though. I remember thinking that Superbird might have just completely made that up to... I don't know what.

Honestly, we don't really have anything to go on and I guess everyone is reluctant to actually start a lynch. I'm going to vote for Superbird mostly because: I'm somewhat inclined to trust Butterfree right now (I suspected for a while that the confrontation with Negrek could have been staged, but if it was there was zero reason for Negrek to reveal that the even/odd night limitation would be removed on one of their deaths; that would be giving up a valuable advantage), i.e. I don't think she caused Zexion's death; Superbird revealed his power on the first day, and it was quite useful, which would have made him a good target for conversion; as I said before, he has a great opportunity to frame anybody he likes since he can go ahead and use their power on anybody he wants (I do wonder how it's decided which one he uses if someone has multiple powers, though); as I also said before, I think he's been strangely absent; and in small part because that hopeandjoy thing rubs me the wrong way.

Blah, that paragraph is probably somewhat hard to follow but I don't feel like editing...

 

[Eifie]

Re: Trainer Class Pokéchoice Mafia - Game Thread

Ooh, just realized that Superbird apparently has a secondary power. Intrigue. Am I the only one who only has one power?! young whippersnappers need to stop being so greedy with your gifts from jesus

 

[hopeandjoy]

Re: Trainer Class Pokéchoice Mafia - Game Thread

I only have one power myself.

 

[Superbird]

Re: Trainer Class Pokéchoice Mafia - Game Thread

...I've actually been back from band camp for almost two weeks now, but I've had nothing in particular that I felt needed saying, and my primary attention has been focused elsewhere so I really haven't been following this game very much.

First of all, I wasn't lying about my power -- Mirror Move is my first night action, which "will use one (and only one) of the first target's submitted night actions for that night, targeting the second player." Other restrictions include that the action has to be single-target.

I do have a second action that I didn't mention, but it's not a night action. Basically, once in the game during a day phase, I can send a PM to MF. At the end of said day, night falls, but there is a party, which everyone attends. Night actions are still sent in, but players may post in the thread and all out-of-thread communication is temporarily banned for the duration of the night. As of yet, I have obviously not used this.

The information that hopeandjoy is innocent came from a Wargle, who is dead but whose night action allows her to talk to one random person per night (I've been picked twice now, presumably by being lucky), and I have no idea how she got that information but I trust her because she's been right once.

What I mean by that is that, last night, I talked to her again and was given two more innocent people's names: Zexion and RespectTheBlade. Zexion is dead now, in the aftermath of that conversation, and he was indeed innocent, so I'm inclined to believe RTB is as well.

As for other players, I find it hard to believe that Eifie is mafia. A cult recruiter (this would make perfect sense what with the converting, actually), perhaps, or [more likely] a doctor, but not the mafia. Not dangerous, at any rate.

So, assuming I'm not mafia myself (I'm not, by the way) the scum (or whoever we're supposed to be lynching) would be out of Mai, Alligates, and Butterfree.

On N0, Mai did things that lessened their suspicion, and Alligates is some sort of crier. Clearly, since we haven't hit a mafia yet and there are probably at least three in a game of this size, we have to lynch a mafia today.

I vote Butterfree.

My reasoning is as follows: This isn't the first time Butterfree has been under the bus. A few days ago it was nearly a coin-flip between her and Negrek. There is already a precedent. Secondly, it was pointed out how Butterfree's role paralleled Negrek's role. I don't think this was a lie. Butterfree and Negrek essentially switched actions every night. It would make perfect sense, then, that one of the parallel roles was innocent and one was the mafia, and since Negrek was innocent, Butterfree would have to be mafia.
Also, I think it's perfectly reasonable that Butterfree might have been lying about the "only even-numbered nights" kill schedule.

too tired to do more reasoning right now, though

 

[Keldeo]

Re: Trainer Class Pokéchoice Mafia - Game Thread

warning long post incoming
I have two powers. The one besides Uproar is pretty much useless.

Idk Superbird figuring out hopeandjoy's thing was apparently "complicated" and he "wasn't allowed to talk about it" (or he didn't know, I'm too lazy to go back and check) meaning could have been him Mirror Move-ing an inspector/nexus->inspector.. as he is at band camp i am not inclined to believe he's cult, at least not on that rationale; idk what rationale though. Probably for the utility of his power(s). (Mirror Move iirc copies the move that is used, which means two cultings a night - if culted. He did claim early, so probably was a cult target or at least set to be one, if we are doing the inactive cult leader thing [which seems to be the case])

Four-night thing seems random and un-MF-y, especially considering most games would not be set up to have 8 nights much less 12

living people:
Mai - if we're going with the 'strangely absent' rationale here's another one; has not claimed powers besides Skill Swap (and we still don't know what power she got from Light) Yeah she has not been talkative at all so. Could you speak up or something? idk um

hopeandjoy - have you used your power?? anyway, /was/ innocent as of whenever that thing happened (seriously though this game has been going on for way long :|) and if Superbird and she were both cult at the time and it was an arranged trust thingy it was a) not done very well b) impossible because cult logistics and stuff. her power also seems not very helpful for cult to cult, and the only reason cult would cult would be to preserve the integrity of the Superbird confirmation, which would be rendered null by a) the speculations about cult and b) revelation of Superbird as cult iff he is; anyway I'm pretty sure she is not cult (although cult may be banking on us assuming that she is not for those reasons and arrrgh cult mindgames ;_;)

me - hi I am me. anyway you all know Uproar is a thing that was also confirmed by Eifie yay and if you want to know whether your power works I guess you can target me? but that would be counterproductive if cult or kill happens to me - on the upside you all know that I am not cult (probably) because I have been using Uproar for the entire game

Superbird - yeah idk but he's at band camp so quasi-reason (that is also very probably true) for being inactive /unlike Mai/ (<- not intended to be accusative !) ummm would be a beneficial to cult target.. but obvious cult target, meaning more obvious for a lynch target once cult is outed

RTB - Hyper Voice is a cool move for the utility but would only really work once and pin looots of suspicion on RTB as having been culted, meaning one for one cult for town, which is not a good situation for both outnumber-the-townies cult and cult-everyone cult. I do not think a cult but he would be less obvious a cult member so maybe ???

Butterfree - I don't think interaction with Negrek was staged, which means probably not a cult, if not a cult then (because cult has not won yet, there is probably an inactive or unable-to-cult leader, meaning Butterfree is PROBABLY not cult - if cultness is on a scale of red to green following the 'rainbow'/roy g biv with red the lowest, say, she'd probably be somewhere from red-orange to yellow-orange)

Eifie - . uhhhh. would be a productive cult member /if we knew what her power actually did/ because it isn't that clear probably even to the cult members -> Flash Of Inspiration if culting is a stat boost, Haze removes it, so you can... un-cult people?! Idk this is me having a wild guess and being too literal about game mechanics - also idk if you are cult

I mean all of the above hinges on the fact that there is a cult, but two neither-i-nor-ms seem to prove that. ANYWAY our lynch target for today depends on whether cult is most concerned with a) having people in cult, b) having useful powers in cult, c) having non-obviously-culteds in cult- am I overthinking this ?_? I should go to sleep

So tldr: the red to green scale red=most likely innocent
Mai: ? (more recent data pls)
hopeandjoy: red
red (this is me so there is a bias)
superbird: yellow/? (idk man his absence is explained but the haj thing is not)
rtb: red
butterfree: orangeish
eifie: I have no clue because depends on cult motivations which idk so

 

[Keldeo]

Re: Trainer Class Pokéchoice Mafia - Game Thread

Oops ninjaed by Superbird three minutes ago wow

It would be veeery easy for him to be cult & lying about this but I am inclined to believe him. I am innocent unless the cult cults without cult people knowing but I am pretty much equally suspicious of Mai and Butterfree so withholding vote for now - would like to hear them respond to the accusations though

 

[Eifie]

Re: Trainer Class Pokéchoice Mafia - Game Thread

Oh I remember reading about the band camp thing somewhere but I'd totally forgotten about it. I'll withdraw for now. I have stuff to say once I wake up properly but zzz

 

[Eifie]

Re: Trainer Class Pokéchoice Mafia - Game Thread

Okay, good morning!

First of all, I wasn't lying about my power -- Mirror Move is my first night action, which "will use one (and only one) of the first target's submitted night actions for that night, targeting the second player." Other restrictions include that the action has to be single-target.

Okay, that makes a lot more sense, and also means that you can't actually force people to use their night actions after all, so I guess the framing people thing is out.

The information that hopeandjoy is innocent came from a Wargle, who is dead but whose night action allows her to talk to one random person per night (I've been picked twice now, presumably by being lucky), and I have no idea how she got that information but I trust her because she's been right once.

What I mean by that is that, last night, I talked to her again and was given two more innocent people's names: Zexion and RespectTheBlade. Zexion is dead now, in the aftermath of that conversation, and he was indeed innocent, so I'm inclined to believe RTB is as well.

Huh. Interesting. So I was right to think that she had other powers that could only trigger when she was dead. Why did you say that you were unable to talk about it? Did Wargle ask you to keep quiet?

Clearly, since we haven't hit a mafia yet and there are probably at least three in a game of this size, we have to lynch a mafia today.

I think by now we've pretty much established that we probably don't really have any mafia? Our target is whatever these neither-innocent-nor-mafia people are.

It would make perfect sense, then, that one of the parallel roles was innocent and one was the mafia, and since Negrek was innocent, Butterfree would have to be mafia.
Also, I think it's perfectly reasonable that Butterfree might have been lying about the "only even-numbered nights" kill schedule.

Negrek wasn't innocent, though. Negrek was whatever third-party thing we've got going on here. Again, we really don't seem to have an actual mafia at all, and if what we're dealing with really is a cult, then the details of other people's roles don't matter at all. There is no reason for a cult member to lie about their role when their role was given to them originally as an innocent. If the original cult leader is dead (once again, assuming that we have a cult...), then it's quite possible that nobody is lying about their role at all.

I'm also curious as to why you said that a cult recruiter wouldn't be a threat in your post earlier. A cult recruiter is kind of... a huge threat.

 

[Mai]

Re: Trainer Class Pokéchoice Mafia - Game Thread

First of all, I wasn't lying about my power -- Mirror Move is my first night action, which "will use one (and only one) of the first target's submitted night actions for that night, targeting the second player." Other restrictions include that the action has to be single-target.

The information that hopeandjoy is innocent came from a Wargle, who is dead but whose night action allows her to talk to one random person per night (I've been picked twice now, presumably by being lucky), and I have no idea how she got that information but I trust her because she's been right once.

Hm, so the night action has to be submitted, then? Nice to know. (Eifie kind of said this, but in a slightly different way.)

Can anyone else vouch for this thing happening to them?

Mai - if we're going with the 'strangely absent' rationale here's another one; has not claimed powers besides Skill Swap (and we still don't know what power she got from Light) Yeah she has not been talkative at all so. Could you speak up or something? idk um

Ah, sorry. Reasons for absence: I had a sudden drop of interest in the game, then school was a thing. Do you want me to claim? That... might not be a very effective thing, but here we go.

The power I got from Light is role play: basically, I target myself and "designate" a player (does not count as targeting), and if any attempts on my life are made that night, they go to the other player instead. If I actually cause my designated player to die, the power is expended and I can't use it anymore; that seems to imply I can avert my own death for free if my target is protected from death, but healing doesn't seem to be a thing this game, so.

I haven't role played for... a while. Not since the mass prod that MF gave out, where I designated RTB, apparently. I haven't killed anyone with it yet (that's a slightly scummy-sounding way to put it... but it's the most straightforward and I acknowledge that), so I still have it.

My other power is captivate, and it's always active: if someone targets me at night with a non-killing action, there's a 50% chance that they'll become my lover. If that happens, we're both notified and we can communicate with each other; there are changes to the lover role, though, in that alignments are not affected and if I die, my lover(s) die, but that doesn't happen vice versa.

I can have multiple lovers, but as it happens, right now I only have one (possibly because I've been so inactive, therefore little to no targeting): Eifie.

... I know that sounds kind of weird, but I'm promise that I'm not cult unless it's super-secret and even I don't know. Maybe I'm a mystery to myself. Please don't lynch me, though.

Ummm I don't really have a great amount of opinions because posting tends to form them in itself and uh... I obviously haven't been doing that. Anyway on the "wrong people are scum" ... line of thought? Theory? Fallacy? I guess I kind of suspect Superbird, mostly with what Eifie pointed out:

Negrek wasn't innocent, though. Negrek was whatever third-party thing we've got going on here. Again, we really don't seem to have an actual mafia at all, and if what we're dealing with really is a cult, then the details of other people's roles don't matter at all. There is no reason for a cult member to lie about their role when their role was given to them originally as an innocent. If the original cult leader is dead (once again, assuming that we have a cult...), then it's quite possible that nobody is lying about their role at all.

I'm also curious as to why you said that a cult recruiter wouldn't be a threat in your post earlier. A cult recruiter is kind of... a huge threat.

<3

 

[Superbird]

Re: Trainer Class Pokéchoice Mafia - Game Thread

...I completely missed that detail of Negrek being not innocent as I was rereading the thread. I'll Withdraw my vote for Butterfree, then, because the dichotomy would work the other way. But we should lynch someone today, still. Cult recruiter seemed like less of a threat compared to mafia, but if there's an agreement that cult isn't a thing, it would certainly be a threat.

For the record, I wasn't disallowed to talk about my source earlier, I was just told that I might be under suspicion if I did talk about it. Which, I guess, is true.

 

[Eifie]

Re: Trainer Class Pokéchoice Mafia - Game Thread

I ~~~guess ~~~ I believe that Mai really is not cheating on me for now, then.........

 

[Keldeo]

Re: Trainer Class Pokéchoice Mafia - Game Thread

Idk the only person who seems worth lynching right now is Butterfree as I am inclined to trust pretty much everyone else :|

Mai and Eifie, can you communicate with each other?

 

[Eifie]

Re: Trainer Class Pokéchoice Mafia - Game Thread

Yes. I've spent a large portion of the game screaming "are you cult" and "plz to make post" and "IS THERE SOMEONE ELSE" at them over PM, which probably hasn't been very useful. </3

Really Butterfree is the only person I definitely don't want to lynch right now (and that's including my lover, who I'm probably more suspicious of than anybody else is even though their death will kill me...)

 

[Mai]

Re: Trainer Class Pokéchoice Mafia - Game Thread

Yes. I've spent a large portion of the game screaming "are you cult" and "plz to make post" and "IS THERE SOMEONE ELSE" at them over PM, which probably hasn't been very useful. </3

Really Butterfree is the only person I definitely don't want to lynch right now (and that's including my lover, who I'm probably more suspicious of than anybody else is even though their death will kill me...)

</3 And the not cult and no other lovers thing was constant throughout the game!

< / 3 Well, putting the lowest level of trust in me here, I think we can still acknowledge that you're probably the most valuable player right now and shouldn't die...

(And why? I mean, if I /was/ cult or cult leader with my lovers being my cultists, you'd be cult too, gosh.)

 

[M&F]

Re: Trainer Class Pokéchoice Mafia - Game Thread

Lovely 24-hour time extension.

 

[Butterfree]

Re: Trainer Class Pokéchoice Mafia - Game Thread

Ugggh been sick today and can't think.

I don't feel reeeeaally convinced of Wargle's supposed innocents just because Zexion was innocent; correctly naming someone as mafia generally indicates you're trustworthy and know something, but given most players are presumably innocent, correctly naming someone as innocent isn't much evidence in someone's favor. That's especially true since I would assume Wargle's information is based on something like her role not being able to talk to mafia players, and if we're dealing with some kind of cult as our main antagonist here, I don't think it's unlikely that she'd still be able to talk to people who have been culted (so long as they started out innocent). Plus, even if they were innocent when she talked to them, that's not necessarily still the case. So I really wouldn't rule out hopeandjoy or RespectTheBlade - particularly the former, since it's been longer since Wargle concluded she was innocent.

Combine with her general quietness and I'm at least tentatively voting hopeandjoy unless somebody has a better idea.

 

[hopeandjoy]

Re: Trainer Class Pokéchoice Mafia - Game Thread

Hey, I assure you that I am not scum. Not that that really means much but.

Besides, I only one power, and it's a non-killing, deminishing power one.

 

[Eifie]

Re: Trainer Class Pokéchoice Mafia - Game Thread

Oh, what Butterfree guessed about Wargle's information makes sense. But given that we still don't seem to have mafia in this game (maybe we just have one random mafia... poor lone soul), it would be kind of weird for Wargle's role to prevent her from talking to mafia people.

Let's say that's how Wargle's role works. There've been six nights since she died, I think. She talked to Superbird twice, and apparently RtB, Zexion, and hopeandjoy once each? Doesn't that leave one other night?

Also: hopeandjoy, did you communicate with Wargle? Also... hopeandjoy's role seems really underpowered. Of course we need some roles like that for balance, but given how un-generic her role is... that feels really weird.

 

[Butterfree]

Re: Trainer Class Pokéchoice Mafia - Game Thread

But given that we still don't seem to have mafia in this game (maybe we just have one random mafia... poor lone soul), it would be kind of weird for Wargle's role to prevent her from talking to mafia people.

Well, 1) the game didn't advertise itself as having no mafia, so I would assume MF's role PMs would always have been written to act as if there was a mafia, including things like noting something will not work on mafia members (which a player would probably assume means those they can talk to are confirmed innocent); 2) even if Wargle can specifically only talk to actual non-culted innocents, which may be the case, that still leaves the possibility of people getting culted after Wargle spoke to them, hence my greater suspicion of hopeandjoy than RespectTheBlade; and 3) I still think there at least was an actual mafia in this game based on the fact Negrek's role seems to have mirrored mine but been given more information at the start, which sounds like something you'd do for an actual mafia role, informed minority and all. But then again MF moves in mysterious ways.

Maybe Wargle talked to one of the others twice too? It may not have seemed important enough to mention.

And yeah, hopeandjoy's role seems weirdly underpowered if that's her only power, which also sounds kind of dodgy.

 

[Eifie]

Re: Trainer Class Pokéchoice Mafia - Game Thread

hopeandjoy feels like slightly less of a shot in the dark than anybody else... I guess.