Cats (2019) Mafia

[Keldeo]

Not present rn, but one strategy I've seen to avoid missing votes with manual vote counting is that after each day ends, the flip isn't posted immediately, and there's an extra 10-15 minutes where people can PM the mod if there are any vote changes they missed. I'm not sure how frequently an error actually changes the result, so maybe the delayed gratification of not knowing the flip would be too much hehe.

 

[RNP]

kyeugh you fucker only i get to bully stryke

 

[mewtini]

ILS seemed to get town reads for flavor spec for some reason, and then even pointed out himself that it's not something that should warrant a town read but he doesn't really do anything else? Like, I feel like that should have been paired with something else like "you're right that me flavor spec'ing doesn't mean anything, now let me actually Do Things!" but he really doesn't do anything else, and the next time he posts is in reaction to Keldeo's vote on Trebek I think? I'm pretty tired now so idk if this makes sense. Part of me wonders if this may not be a bad place to vote?

yep, i'd be ok with an ils wagon too tbh and i don't think flavorspec is ultratowny. on the other hand i feel like i owe it to him not to tunnel him since i screwed him over d1 last game. haha ... waiting to see if he comes back and vibes

 

[mewtini]

last game.

*in the last game we played, sorry

 

[Butterfree]

Can someone remind me why we’re suspicious of Stryke?

I guess I could kind of go for ILS given I’ve been side-eyeing a bit how he, knowing the Cats lore, tried to get everyone to think the death flavor suggested Mr. Mistoffelees instead of Macavity. But I don’t really understand why he would do such a thing as mafia, either; it’s not like there aren’t plenty of others who’ve seen the movie and could correct that?

I may not be properly back until ~half an hour before EoD, because work and after that I need to get groceries. Will try to keep up with the thread during breaks, though.

 

[mewtini]

ok i got stuck in a zoom bday party/really need to go sleep soon because it's 3:15am but i am going to just throw my thoughts down for now, because idk yet how active i'll be until nearish EoD, and then scuttle off for the night before i start deliriousposting again. secondary goal: gonna try to stop using the word "like," question marks, and "i think." let's see how far i get :|

i don't think flavorspec is ultratowny

just to clarify. i don't think it's actively untowny obviously, just that it didn't really make me strongly townlean him/i've left him in null p much all game ... uh ... i'm writing this part first, so maybe i'll have thought about it more by the time i finish this post

Spoiler: me talking about ILS, since he was lightly proposed as a wagon

i remember him being pretty reactive in tvtropes as town (those who played will know that i'm referring to the reaction to VM's joke) but i don't know if he posted enough/i know him well enough to say much else about his style beyond this. the main activity he's had so far in this game is the exchange from 763 to 777 (+ trebek vote surprise/loretalk, which i will call NAI). i'd really love some thoughts on him

ah wait i think i got it now
he made a bold move to vary his playstyle and instigate conversation, and that was basically it?

which i feel fine about? what do you think

It still reads a little backpedally to me, so I'm still somewhat suspicious. Still only is D1 though, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

this is so far his only read, i think. in a vacuum i feel slightly unsure about this (like, "he only appeared to shade?"), but i also wanted to bring it up because his play has been roughly the kind of thing that wrongly pinged me in tvt, but i am wondering if anyone feels anything other than null or townleany about him

Spoiler: me talking about skylar

since she seemed very focused on how the whole thing impacted her optics. but meh

skimming over d1 tvt w!skylar makes me think that she wouldn't make this type of read (one that's small but makes sense) as a wolf? rari was overall more aggressive than me during all that than i was, so i think it makes sense for skylar to read me like that ...
also her 901 ("there's pretty much no one i don't kind of want to give an extra day to") didn't feel as agendaed as she did in tvt iirc. and 746 feels like a post that she would've just phrased as "idk why, i just feel bad" in the last game.
overall skylar isn't really throwing, like. shade that goes beyond normal pushing whereas she was pretty heavy-handed in sussing seshas/rari in earlygame tvt in a way that she's really not now (she also didn't previously go back and bother revising her reads during d1/d2 in the way that she has here, i think).

i don't really feel like reading more tvtropes tonight but i feel alright here

Spoiler: other thoughts

- i think that blu sounds really pure throughout all of this, for his attitudes toward cop cover, his general thought process (see 755), and how unguarded/relaxed he sounds
- still swinging between moderately strongly TRing keldeo and being paranoid because i don't think i'd pick up on it if he were scum. but: in a vacuum, i read him as town. @Keldeo (sorry for ping, just think that this could get buried) can you talk more about why trebek is a no-lynch for you today?
- ignoring the vm thing for now because idk how significant it is or isn't, i feel like it can't be 10000% NAI but i also think culture clash is a thing that happens ... ? i agreed with his actual reads in 743 though i think i'm pretty much ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ about being able to read him overall right now
- also i gutread herbe's like, meta-awareness as sincere (also he's poked people a bit more than he did in tvt, idk if that really makes a huge positive impact but still) i really am just going to hold off on reading him though, because i feel sort of head empty about the content he's produced so far. his quicktierlist in 917 is fine, but i don't 100% grasp his specific interest in stryke's flip when afaik stryke is pretty much getting voted because he's a nullread
- i ... really want butterfree to post more, though meatspace is meatspace. i gutread 761 well (which is why she was in my higher tier just now) but i couldn't really do a great job of explaining why, and i think if i made a more detailed list now i'd drop her down a tier. haven't played with her before and am rather intimidated by her and keldeo tbqh

gonna mull a bit over wagons briefly if i don't pass out first, it is now 4:20 (haha) 4:35 4:40 in the morning

 

[mewtini]

which i will call NAI

well, for now anyway, i think the surprise is a bit more NAI than the loretalk but it's a pretty small disparity

 

[Keldeo]

mewtini, I liked Trebek's reaction to my vote in the ways that I talked about directly after it, and the fact that he continued to post thoughts and stuff instead of retreating to "chill in the background" mode after an active person called him town.

 

[Keldeo]

I have only read this page since I left, and don't have time to do more right now :/ Will try to be back before the end of day, but not sure if I can make it.

Thanks for skylar thoughts, mewtini. I was beginning to feel kind of paranoid about her but I'm gonna table that feeling for now. Agreed that hearing more from Butterfree would be cool if she can swing it.

The depth and breadth of thought in mewtini's miscellanous reads feels pretty good to me.

Can someone remind me why we’re suspicious of Stryke?

I guess I could kind of go for ILS given I’ve been side-eyeing a bit how he, knowing the Cats lore, tried to get everyone to think the death flavor suggested Mr. Mistoffelees instead of Macavity. But I don’t really understand why he would do such a thing as mafia, either; it’s not like there aren’t plenty of others who’ve seen the movie and could correct that?

I may not be properly back until ~half an hour before EoD, because work and after that I need to get groceries. Will try to keep up with the thread during breaks, though.

I think the Stryke thing is mainly that he has been around in the thread, but hasn't really posted much of anything. It's kind of the same with Mr. Ultracool actually, now that I'm thinking about it.

I'm not really sure how to read into what you bring up with ILS. I guess if he is mafia, that means the Mr. Mistoffelees flavor is probably town? I don't have a strong read on anything that he's posted either way. I think the kinda dogged shade on rari, who I think is town, that mewtini quoted is maybe a little scummy, but that's not a strong read at all.

 

[mewtini]

which i will call NAI

well, for now anyway, i think the surprise is a bit more NAI than the loretalk but it's a pretty small disparity

ok given the volume/nestedness of my post, i should have clarified that this was about the first sentence in the ILS spoiler

gonna mull a bit over wagons briefly if i don't pass out first

aight this is going to be more unedited than my above post but i wanna post it before going to bed, hah. sorrrrry. crossing a bit into deliriousposting now

right now there are votes on ultracool, stryke, and kyeugh (don't know if the last one matters or if it was a joke tbh; won't be talking about her since i gave thoughts above)

• i was on ultracool because i'm hoping for some content from him, but i voiced my concerns about him (particularly his resolvability) in 900. tvt play aside (almost tempted to just ignore it at this point), i don't think this is that great of a wagon since it doesn't get us like ... any insight at this point, but:
• i also don't think the stryke one is great either? just slightly better because stryke is more likely to talk than ultracool is
• i'm p sure neither will go to EoD unless something changes
• trebek most likely resolves himself/talks more later
• hesitant about ILS but it's like 45% tvtropes guilt, very very slightly >_> about his efforts to make himself a contact point for cats lore, i think i prefer this to ultracool/stryke because people have talked about ILS. but this is also literally the exact case i made for him in tvt ... ... ...
• i think i reflexively go ILS > stryke > ultracool out of this but then i doubt my ILS read
• hoping to hear more from seshas but reiterating that the last few posts i saw from her made me less willing to sciencewagon, they felt like a return to solviness. also she wasn't that active (or as active, iirc?) during earlygame tvt and i could easily believe it's due to her having difficulty to read people preflips
• this doesn't belong here but i'm just going through my nulls. other people listed in my null pile who i haven't talked about here are rnp (doesn't make more sense than others), tofu (nearly zeroposter), myuma (idrk, honestly, giving benefit of the doubt because new), kokorico (was in my "maybe" tier but i realize as i compile this that i can't get a read), and superjolt (feeling fine about his preliminary posts)

5:20, zzz. tempted to unvote but maybe i should go somewhere? um ... voting with my gut says VM, for now. would like to hear about his emmy vote
going to sleep and revisiting in the morning

 

[mewtini]

tvt play aside (almost tempted to just ignore it at this point), i don't think this is that great of a wagon since it doesn't get us like ... any insight at this point

also i think this is going to roll away into a lynch if we let it, scum isn't going to pop out for him and i think we have other thoughts circulating?

 

[mewtini]

sorry for saying i'd ignore vm and then turning around and voting for him lol :|

I'm not really sure how to read into what you bring up with ILS. I guess if he is mafia, that means the Mr. Mistoffelees flavor is probably town?

i agreed with bfree on the flavor, but i've been feeling this whole time like our character names shouldn't like. matter that much?

 

[Keldeo]

Mm I feel you on not really wanting to lynch someone who's been inactive but also not really knowing where else to put the vote, haha...

i've been feeling this whole time like our character names shouldn't like. matter that much?

Nah yeah, that's cromulent to me.

 

[mewtini]

but i've been feeling this whole time like our character names shouldn't like. matter that much?

wait, this sounded rude. i was agreeing with you kel.

 

[Bluwiikoon]

Just woke up, so here's some sleepy thoughts!

I really like Superjolt and M+7's solvy-ness at the moment, they both read as trying real hard to catch up and formulate thoughts on things. M+7's tone in particular feels good to me ^^

I continue to read mewtini as very towny due to all her participation and analysis, and the good vibes tm. Solvy solvy

Keldeo is really good at inciting discussion and I think I'd feel good about him even without my hypoclearing him.

Hope everybody gets some good rest! Gotta look after yourselves to be able to brain good :D

 

[qenya]

Still reading the thread (seriously, I skipped one evening because I was tired and y'all have made nearly 250 posts!?!?) but I wanted to quickly comment on the "MU vs old TCoD meta" thing.

I come from a meta on the complete opposite end of the spectrum from MU (for example, any sort of discussion on D1, other than greetings and voting, is considered a scumtell), so I totally vibe with VM's frustration in that this sort of hyper-intense, psychological day-play is completely alien to me. That's not to say that I think it's wrong - it's just a difference in culture/meta, and I'm sure I'll get used to it if it continues as the dominant playstyle! But it's not something that comes easily or naturally, and I feel the same sort of reticence that VM mentioned - I just don't find it nearly as engaging or enjoyable as the mechanical stuff that starts happening later on.

Case in point:

in general e seems to be mainly engaging with stuff that seems kind of off the wall to me

To be blunt, this is because I have no fucking clue what I'm doing. This is exactly the second mafia game I've ever played where I've had to try to divine people's alignments from their grammar or whatever, and I'm just not any good at it yet. As far as I'm concerned, for now my utility to town in the first few day phases - PRs notwithstanding - is pretty much exclusively confined to my ability to seem towny, allowing better players to correctly sort me with minimal effort. (I don't seem to be doing as well at that in this game as I was in TVT, which is ironic given I was not in fact town-aligned for most of that.)

All of which is to say: Please be gentle with those of us who don't seem to be reading people effectively. And abstaining is not necessarily a disaster, though I agree it would be better to lynch someone if we have any idea of who might be an acceptable target.

Some actual game-related stuff will come when I've finished catching up.

 

[haneko]

I'm also avoiding giving reads because, to borrow kokorico's words, it doesn't come naturally to me. I'd prefer to wait until something like a mafia kill occurs before I start trying to deduce things for real.

On the other hand, I would prefer to get someone lynched on day 1, so I vote Stryke. Sorry Stryke, nothing personal. :P

 

[Stryke]

Looking at all the lynchtrains that have been active so far, I kinda don't feel good about any of them? Trebeks was just to get into his head a bit/ fish for information, seshas is... He was acting fishy, I guess? (Would help if someone explained that one to me), and me and Mr. Ultracool just haven't posted enough. And then there was like one vote on myuma too because I think we couldn't think of anyone better but that never really got off the ground. It all just kind of feels like shots in the dark. Though I've only ever played here, so perhaps that's the tcod meta/abstain mindset talking. Idk. I definitely felt very suspicious about keldeo voting trebek out of seemingly nowhere way back then, and then taking a minute to elaborate, but... Not suspicious enough to do anything about it, I guess

 

[mewtini]

seshas is... He was acting fishy, I guess? (Would help if someone explained that one to me)

i can’t speak for skylar, who was the other person who ever voted for her i think (actually idk why emmy voted on seshas, idk if it was serious) but
i wouldn’t even call her play fishy or whatever it just didn’t feel quite as good as i hoped; i think it’s very possible that it’s just due to her having an overall less active d1 (as far as her engagement goes) which is why i was eh about continuing to press there

there was like one vote on myuma too because I think we couldn't think of anyone better

mmm, eh. i think this is maybe an oversimplification though i’m so far chalking it up to “keldeo had rationale for this vote that he just isn’t telling us.” i’m still working through how i feel about this though :’)

I definitely felt very suspicious about keldeo voting trebek out of seemingly nowhere way back then, and then taking a minute to elaborate

do you feel that way now, or are you saying you felt that way as you read it? (i.e. did you read/vibe with his explanation?)

is there anyone else you have thoughts about?

 

[mewtini]

All of which is to say: Please be gentle with those of us who don't seem to be reading people effectively.

i feel like it would be kind of scummy (Ha Ha) if i just ignored this post, so i wanted to say that i’m sorry for being kind of complicit here; i am struggling a lot with sorting people out and i know it’s in part because i don’t totally know how to tell those who just aren’t as comfortable reading others apart from “people i really should be looking at”